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Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

Forums New posts
Tangled up in Blue said:
You'll have to explain why losing half the number of votes to UKIP than the Tories did "was more damaging " to Labour.I don't seem to remember that from Ford and Goodwin's account.
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One element was to do with switch voters, the other was to do with where Labour voters were defecting to UKIP (disproportionate in Labours case) , which in places like Yorkshire cost Labour seats despite the fact that UKIP didn't win them....the flip side is of course that UKIP did lose a seat to the conservatives.
 
callan said:
Personally, I see it as damage being done by both UKIP and the SNP, one in terms of seats and the other votes.

I don't think that Labour necessarily need to move to the right as to do so would probably alienate as much support as it would gain.

What they cannot afford to do is to further distance themselves from the working classes outside of the larger metropolitan areas...whist this may appear to be a big ask...it certainly isn't impossible.
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Probably not true. Given the tendency of things (in this case voters in the whole population) to fall into a normal distribution curve, any move to the centre will gain more votes than it loses.
 
londonblue said:
Probably not true. Given the tendency of things (in this case voters in the whole population) to fall into a normal distribution curve, any move to the centre will gain more votes than it loses.
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I'm not so sure, if centre politics were the basis for attracting votes then the Lib dems should clean up every election.

From Labours perspective, how far towards the right do you want them to go?
 
callan said:
I'm not so sure, if centre politics were the basis for attracting votes then the Lib dems should clean up every election.

From Labours perspective, how far towards the right do you want them to go?
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Lib Dems are an irrelevance. I don't really care where Labour goes: I won't vote for them whilst they pander to anti-semites.
 
callan said:
One element was to do with switch voters, the other was to do with where Labour voters were defecting to UKIP (disproportionate in Labours case) , which in places like Yorkshire cost Labour seats despite the fact that UKIP didn't win them....the flip side is of course that UKIP did lose a seat to the conservatives.
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Just had a cursory look through it and the proportion of switchers since 2010 out of every 4 from the Tories, was 3 to UKIP and only 1 to Labour.

That certainly would have cost Labour seats in places like Harrowgate and elsewhere in the North/Midlands.(Think this was an appendix in Revolt on the Right).
 
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londonblue said:
Lib Dems are an irrelevance. I don't really care where Labour goes: I won't vote for them whilst they pander to anti-semites.
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The Lib/Dens are certainly not an "irrelevance" if they can win back seats from the Tories in the South and South West again.Remember that targeting those seats was the basis of the narrow Tory victory in 2015.

That old saw about Labour "pandering to anti-semites" again.Just what would JC and Labour have to do for you to accept this is not true?

I presume you were happy enough with Labour's stance on anti-semitism while Ed Miliband was leader?
 
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Another Surrey Shrimper said:
sounds like we have reached agreement - Brown, Blair, Cameron and May have armed the murderous Saudis but Corbyn wouldn't
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Do you honestly think the likes of BAE Systems, Siemens and the plethora of other government of the time funding military contractors would let JC or anyone else cease and/or ban the supply of arms to the Saudis, or anyone else for that matter?

It's not just a case of turning off the supply and be done with it. There are many other factors involved that would make an arms sales ban to the Saudis virtually impossible to implement no matter how much one wished you could.

1. The politics involved in the ME and surrounding area.
2. The job loses incurred here in the UK (Saudi Arabia is one of BAE Systems biggest military export markets)
3. The corruption and political influence involved and both ends of the market.
4. Within the corridors or power at Westminster nothing will come between an MP/Lord/Backbencher and his shares, his dubious company directorship or company ties or his retirement fund. Not even political allegiance.

Governments around the world are built and rely on their MIC contracts and ties. There is nothing as profitable to a nation and it's leader as a good war. Just ask Thatcher or Blair
 
superblue24 said:
Just going to slip this one in here:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/12/09/voting-intention-labour-voting-intention-lowest-le/

Little out of date, but not ancient
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Certainly out of date.

The latest opinion poll I've seen (between the 13th-16th December 2016) talks about a 7% point gap between Labour and the Tories.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/17/labour-gains-two-points-since-november

That 25% per cent figure is history.Expect the 7% figure to close, as the Tories tear themselves apart over Brexit this year and next.
 
Tangled up in Blue said:
Not really.It's not a Presidential election in the UK (yet).People usually put their party preference ahead of who the leader is.
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actually leadership ratings are a large determinate of overall outcome. Miliband was miles behind Cameron and that was reflected in the outcome of the general election. Which is fair enough. Each party puts forward an individual that the buck stops with, that they think/pretend has the character and temperament to lead a country. If that person is a nutter, Corbyn for example, then that indicates that the whole party membership is warped in its view of the world. Which is fair enough looking at Labour

Tangled up in Blue said:
I don't think there's any question that he would have to resign (I'd imagine he'd want to anyway) if labour lose the next G/E.
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interestingly, he and his supporters seem to have started to notice that winning actually matters in politics. 12 months ago they weren't interested in winning, now they are. I can only hope there is enough of a party left after Corbyn has finished with it to try to recover.
 
Tangled up in Blue said:
The Tories have a tiny majority and Labour lost the GE largely due to the rise of the SNP
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if only that was true eh? even if we had won every single seat in Scotland we'd still be what, 50 odd seats behind the Tories?

It's a nice way of blaming everyone else for our failings, but actually voters all across the UK didn't trust us, and I can't say I blamed them. Ed Miliband, really? As Prime Minister. Ed Miliband. Think about that. Whatever your own political beliefs, and I voted for Ed Miliband for the leadership (I was young and naive), he objectively wasn't up to it and lots of people realised that
 
Bearded Shrimper said:
actually leadership ratings are a large determinate of overall outcome. Miliband was miles behind Cameron and that was reflected in the outcome of the general election. Which is fair enough. Each party puts forward an individual that the buck stops with, that they think/pretend has the character and temperament to lead a country. If that person is a nutter, Corbyn for example, then that indicates that the whole party membership is warped in its view of the world. Which is fair enough looking at Labour



interestingly, he and his supporters seem to have started to notice that winning actually matters in politics. 12 months ago they weren't interested in winning, now they are. I can only hope there is enough of a party left after Corbyn has finished with it to try to recover.
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Corbyn is not a nutter.Just an old fashioned leftie.
 
Bearded Shrimper said:
if only that was true eh? even if we had won every single seat in Scotland we'd still be what, 50 odd seats behind the Tories?

It's a nice way of blaming everyone else for our failings, but actually voters all across the UK didn't trust us, and I can't say I blamed them. Ed Miliband, really? As Prime Minister. Ed Miliband. Think about that. Whatever your own political beliefs, and I voted for Ed Miliband for the leadership (I was young and naive), he objectively wasn't up to it and lots of people realised that
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Not if you also take into account the seats in the South and SW that the Tories targeted (and won ) from the Lib/Dems.

Ed Miliband was elected to the leadership of the PLP, largely because he wasn't in Parliament at the time of the Iraq war.No Labour MP who voted for Iraq will ever be elected as a future leader of the PLP.
 
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