Immigration

[Bielzibubz]

My post was in answer to someone who invited me to spend some time in Ipswich.I pointed out that I already have.

I also compared the situation of modern day immigrants to Spain, (of which I'm one), to their perceived reception in the UK.

What is "contentious" about immigration in your opinion?

1. But your answer had absolutely nothing to do with the point being made because it's 30 years or so out of date, as well you know, but you had to make it about yourself somehow I suppose so I'll give you that one.

2. You cannot compare Spains migrant/immigrant situation to that of the UK. The two countries are completely different in terms of both economic prosperity, size, social infrastructure and many other things.

3. I suggest you look up the meaning of contentious as you clearly haven't got a clue there either. No, don't bother. Here it is.

contentiouskənˈtɛnʃəs/
adjective

• causing or likely to cause an argument; controversial.
  "a contentious issue"
  

  synonyms:

  controversial, disputable, debatable, disputed, contended, open to question/debate, moot, vexed; More

  • involving heated argument.
    "the socio-economic plan had been the subject of contentious debate"
  • 
    

    synonyms:

    heated, vehement, fierce, violent, intense, impassioned, committed"a contentious debate"

  • (of a person) given to provoking an argument.
    
    Now, in case you haven't grasped it even after reading that. Immigration is a subject with vastly differing and polarizing personal opinions which are likely to cause arguments, heated debates, and sometimes offense.
    
    Now, like SB, when you have lived here in the UK and around a town city with a high proportion of migrant/immigrant population and experienced what it's actually like rather than what you perceive it to be like then you have earned the right to have an opinion that deserves to be taken seriously. Until then grow up, be a man, and accept you know jack **** about living with the migrant/immigration problem (my italics) certain areas here in the UK suffer from.
  
  
  
  

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

1. But your answer had absolutely nothing to do with the point being made because it's 30 years or so out of date, as well you know, but you had to make it about yourself somehow I suppose so I'll give you that one.

2. You cannot compare Spains migrant/immigrant situation to that of the UK. The two countries are completely different in terms of both economic prosperity, size, social infrastructure and many other things.

3. I suggest you look up the meaning of contentious as you clearly haven't got a clue there either. No, don't bother. Here it is.

contentiouskənˈtɛnʃəs/
adjective

• causing or likely to cause an argument; controversial.
  "a contentious issue"
  

  synonyms:

  controversial, disputable, debatable, disputed, contended, open to question/debate, moot, vexed; More

  • involving heated argument.
    "the socio-economic plan had been the subject of contentious debate"
  • 
    

    synonyms:

    heated, vehement, fierce, violent, intense, impassioned, committed"a contentious debate"

  • (of a person) given to provoking an argument.
    
    Now, in case you haven't grasped it even after reading that. Immigration is a subject with vastly differing and polarizing personal opinions which are likely to cause arguments, heated debates, and sometimes offense.
    
    Now, like SB, when you have lived here in the UK and around a town city with a high proportion of migrant/immigrant population and experienced what it's actually like rather than what you perceive it to be like then you have earned the right to have an opinion that deserves to be taken seriously. Until then grow up, be a man, and accept you know jack **** about living with the migrant/immigration problem (my italics) certain areas here in the UK suffer from.
  
  
  
  

If I understand you correctly, neither myself nor anyone else who doesn't agree with your own views on immigration,should have the temerity to offer an opinion, on what you clearly regard as a "contentious" subject.
Is that right?

Btw,would you agree that both London and Birmingham have had a "high proportion of migrant/immigrant population" dating back, at least, to the 1970's if not earlier?

If you won't entertain any comparison of the UK and Spain in terms of immigration,perhaps you would be prepared to do so in the case of France? Or is that country also "completely different in terms of both economic prosperity, size, social infrastructure and many other things " to the UK,in your opinion?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

There are so many issues in the situation that the direct comparisons of countries is simplistic and unrealistic.
Does Spain or France have (and enforce) a minimum wage, do they have a comparative welfare system, do they have a large base of low skill jobs available?
It is, IMO, largely the low skill/wage migrants, plus those that seem to want to ghetto'ise areas that are failing the UK and, in the long term themselves.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

There are so many issues in the situation that the direct comparisons of countries is simplistic and unrealistic.
Does Spain or France have (and enforce) a minimum wage, do they have a comparative welfare system, do they have a large base of low skill jobs available?
It is, IMO, largely the low skill/wage migrants, plus those that seem to want to ghetto'ise areas that are failing the UK and, in the long term themselves.

There is a minimum wage in both Spain and France.I'd say, (from my own personal experience), that the welfare system in Spain is quite generous for the first two years that you're unemployed.Not afterwards.Can't really comment about France.

Would say that there is increasingly less of "a large base of low skill jobs available" anywhere in the EU these days.

Wouldn't have thought that anyone (immigrant or otherwise) would consciously want to "ghetto'ise" where they live,though I'll pop in at the Plough next time I'm over (at the end of next month) and see if their unofficial (and not very subtle) colour bar is still in operation.

 

[superblue24]

Some time ago now-back in the 80's, my wife had some French friends who worked in Ipswich and we used to visit them fairly regularly.It was a quiet,provincial town in those days.Probably still is, for all I know.

It so happens that there are plenty of people living in the Barcelona area who come from other countries (I'm one of them myself).Don't think anyone here is all that fussed.

Get over yourself.

Made yourself look at clown once again, no surprise there. Bielz has pretty much got it spot on.

The comparisons and experiences you drew in this post are nonsensical, at best.

 

[OldBlueLady]

In all truth, times have changed beyond all recognition from the 80s to where we are now. I feel grateful to have grown up when I did because it sure as hell ain't fun these days. It's scary as ****.

 

[superblue24]

It used to be like that in Romford in the 1980s. People+alcohol=arseholes regardless of ethnicity.

Hmm, only thing is that these folk I speak of are not "drunk", they just enjoy loitering, being loud, threatening people and generally being anti social.

I don't disagree that we have our own problems with British people, of course. But do we want to be adding in the scum of other countries to add to that?

 

[superblue24]

Or Basildon or even Southend High Street for that matter.

I lived in Southend for 5 years and Basildon for 10. The way it is here in Ipswich is far worse than how I remember it back in the 80s 90s basck in Essex. The people behind the misery are 90% foreign. I'm telling you this from my experiences here, no assumptions made or stereotypes. It is just the way it is.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

There is a minimum wage in both Spain and France.I'd say, (from my own personal experience), that the welfare system in Spain is quite generous for the first two years that you're unemployed.Not afterwards.Can't really comment about France.

.

The minimum wages in Spain and France are quite a bit lower than in the UK and also have other conditions applied to them (minimum monthly wage etc) which make employing persons less speculative/ less likely for business: this is good in that it encourages a better stable work base, but not casual hours persons.
Also there is no popular policy of ensuring that legal minimum wages are applied or investigated/prosecuted (Mike Ashley eat your heart out); unless Unions are involved which isn't the norm with migrant labour..
Many migrants heading for the UK cite language as a central reason for that destination - they learn basic English from films, music, tv etc. NOT French or Spanish.

 

[mrsblue]

Anybody watch the BBC news item yesterday,

The Beeb proudly had a Syrian asylum bloke who had travelled through country after country before smuggling himself onto a Lorry at Calais to enter the UK...lefty liberals were all gushing at this chaps food in his pop up kitchen in London,he bleated "I miss my family"...don't worry chap I'm sure the British government will seek your family and fly them business class to be reunited with you.

Meanwhile,

We are now being told the old famine routine is back and millions of "children" will die unless these charities get 3 billion smackers.

madworld

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Hmm, only thing is that these folk I speak of are not "drunk", they just enjoy loitering, being loud, threatening people and generally being anti social.

I don't disagree that we have our own problems with British people, of course. But do we want to be adding in the scum of other countries to add to that?

Would the "scum of other countries" that you speak about, happen to be people of East-European descent?

The minimum wages in Spain and France are quite a bit lower than in the UK and also have other conditions applied to them (minimum monthly wage etc) which make employing persons less speculative/ less likely for business: this is good in that it encourages a better stable work base, but not casual hours persons.
Also there is no popular policy of ensuring that legal minimum wages are applied or investigated/prosecuted (Mike Ashley eat your heart out); unless Unions are involved which isn't the norm with migrant labour..
Many migrants heading for the UK cite language as a central reason for that destination - they learn basic English from films, music, tv etc. NOT French or Spanish.

You seem to be unaware that France has a huge immigrant population,dating back from well before the relatively recent refugee crisis, (as does the UK of course).

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

You seem to be unaware that France has a huge immigrant population,dating back from well before the relatively recent refugee crisis, (as does the UK of course).

Not at all, the difference is that most of those French (& Belgium) are bye products of their colonial history - as is, too a large extent Syria.
The UK also has a history of migrants from its colonies - which IMO, have settled better than the French equivalents; but that is off topic as the current influx of migrants are, generally, not recent colonial countries: all be it that the B. Empire did much meddling every where east of Suez!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not at all, the difference is that most of those French (& Belgium) are bye products of their colonial history - as is, too a large extent Syria.
The UK also has a history of migrants from its colonies - which IMO, have settled better than the French equivalents; but that is off topic as the current influx of migrants are, generally, not recent colonial countries: all be it that the B. Empire did much meddling every where east of Suez!

This, of course, brings into contrast the GB model of multi-culturalism v the French model of integration.

It's an open question,IMO, as to whether " the current influx of migrants" ,as you put in, has been better integrated into GB or French society.or either.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

If I understand you correctly, neither myself nor anyone else who doesn't agree with your own views on immigration,should have the temerity to offer an opinion, on what you clearly regard as a "contentious" subject.
Is that right?

Btw,would you agree that both London and Birmingham have had a "high proportion of migrant/immigrant population" dating back, at least, to the 1970's if not earlier?

If you won't entertain any comparison of the UK and Spain in terms of immigration,perhaps you would be prepared to do so in the case of France? Or is that country also "completely different in terms of both economic prosperity, size, social infrastructure and many other things " to the UK,in your opinion?

Yeah, no social issues with immigration there at all - one big street party.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yeah, no social issues with immigration there at all - one big street party.

Still waiting for a reply to the specific question I asked you in post 191.Got an answer?

 

[EastStandBlue]

I lived in Southend for 5 years and Basildon for 10. The way it is here in Ipswich is far worse than how I remember it back in the 80s 90s basck in Essex. The people behind the misery are 90% foreign. I'm telling you this from my experiences here, no assumptions made or stereotypes. It is just the way it is.

Wind it in Tupac.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Still waiting for a reply to the specific question I asked you in post 191.Got an answer?

Is age catching up with you?

 

[Benfleet A1]

Is age catching up with you?

Senility is a terrible thing.

 

[superblue24]

Would the "scum of other countries" that you speak about, happen to be people of East-European descent?

What has that got to do with anything? Regardless of where they are from, why should we put up with bad behaviour and criminal tendencies when we have British criminals to also deal with?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Is age catching up with you?

Nope.

Senility is a terrible thing.

Ha! I'm not senile yet -nor am I injecting myself with insulin after 15 years as a (Type 2) diabetic.

What has that got to do with anything? Regardless of where they are from, why should we put up with bad behaviour and criminal tendencies when we have British criminals to also deal with?

Quite a lot to do with the thread topic of immigration,I'd have thought.

Though I have some sympathy for your substantive point.