Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[londonblue]

I'm 46 and went to Uni where tuition was free at point of use and I was given a grant to help with living expenses.

Those in their 20's are the first generation to be less well off than their parents. As the 5th richest nation in the world that is not a situation that we should be proud of.

6th Richest nation. France overtook us after the Brexit vote when the pound plummeted.

:hilarious:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

what are everyone's thoughts on Labour now saying that we won't get rid of fees and saying that we never in fact said that we would get rid of fees or the debt?

It's true that we never committed to it, but an awful lot of people seem to have got the impression that we did

You're actually talking about fees/debt already paid off.JC made it quite clear that it was an "aspiration" to do that.As far as I'm aware it still remains an "aspiration".Obviously it would be incredibly difficult and expensive to do so.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

6th Richest nation. France overtook us after the Brexit vote when the pound plummeted.

:hilarious:

Yup.A 15% devaluation so far and still counting.GDP is, of course, measured in Euros and not Sterling.:smile:

 

[londonblue]

Yup.A 15% devaluation so far and still counting.GDP is, of course, measured in Euros and not Sterling.:smile:

I thought it was measured in dollars. Either way...

 

[londonblue]

You're actually talking about fees/debt already paid off.JC made it quite clear that it was an "aspiration" to do that.As far as I'm aware it still remains an "aspiration".Obviously it would be incredibly difficult and expensive to do so.

He didn't make it clear. He was deliberately ambiguous according to some. Here's a quote from Imran Hussain:

“Just this morning Jeremy Corbyn has announced that the tuition fees will be abolished straight away from September if there’s a Labour government, and that we will bring back immediately EMA and also that every existing student will have all their debt wiped off. That’s fantastic news, isn’t it guys?”

I can show you the video if you want too.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

He didn't make it clear. He was deliberately ambiguous according to some. Here's a quote from Imran Hussain:



I can show you the video if you want too.

Hussain got it wrong but did so in a video that no one was aware of till a month after the election when right wing troll Guido dug it up from somewhere.

Corbyn did not get it wrong as he stuck with the policy as per the manifesto and anything extra to that had no promise, no detail and no dates as it was merely a discussion that he would like to do 'something' about historic debt.

 

[londonblue]

Hussain got it wrong but did so in a video that no one was aware of till a month after the election when right wing troll Guido dug it up from somewhere.

Corbyn did not get it wrong as he stuck with the policy as per the manifesto and anything extra to that had no promise, no detail and no dates as it was merely a discussion that he would like to do 'something' about historic debt.

So why is it still on his website? (Or at least it was.) Corbyn was deliberately ambiguous, others were lying. Either way, I think the party have proven to be no better than anyone else even if they do try to take the moral high ground.

Express

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

I can't remember who said it, but some shadow cabinet member admitted ********* was deliberately ambiguous in his statements.

So much for his honesty.

It's at moments like this when sane people realize you've lost the argument as you resort to pathetic name calling.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

It's at moments like this when sane people realize you've lost the argument as you resort to pathetic name calling.

Does this apply to posters from all sides of any argument or just those you choose not to agree with?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So why is it still on his website? (Or at least it was.) Corbyn was deliberately ambiguous, others were lying. Either way, I think the party have proven to be no better than anyone else even if they do try to take the moral high ground.

Express

Whose website? Hussain’s? No idea. I had never heard of the guy till Guido found the video a month after the electioon. I’ve not heard of him since either because no one wants to grill him as they would rather pin it on Corbyn.

An Express link? You could have picked the Mail or the Sun or the Telegraph too – same fact free story in each. I didn’t have you down as an Express reader tbh.

Why not instead go to the NME article so you can see what Corbyn actually said. Not deliberately ambiguous, just didn’t have an answer to the question of historic debt as there is not policy on historic debt.

There is a policy on tuition fees though – Labour policy is to scrap them, Tory policy is to raise them.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It's at moments like this when sane people realize you've lost the argument as you resort to pathetic name calling.

or resort to link's to the Express

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

I'm disappointed that you have written this TBH as I respect your thoughts and this shows just how far a lie will travel.

I asked a question about something relevant to the overall topic and recent posts in this thread, your reaction is ridiculous.

If you read what I wrote it is about perception and how a mistaken perception had taken hold which had benefitted us.
Sadly your response is typical of those who attacl anyone who would dare to question The Dear Leader.
I accept if my response seems OTT but I am very worried by this culture around Corbyn.
You could have answered the question without attacking me, but you didn't. Trumpian is that.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Corbyn did not get it wrong as he stuck with the policy as per the manifesto

first time for everything eh?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I asked a question about something relevant to the overall topic and recent posts in this thread, your reaction is ridiculous.

If you read what I wrote it is about perception and how a mistaken perception had taken hold which had benefitted us.
Sadly your response is typical of those who attacl anyone who would dare to question The Dear Leader.
I accept if my response seems OTT but I am very worried by this culture around Corbyn.
You could have answered the question without attacking me, but you didn't. Trumpian is that.

I'm disappointed that you have written this TBH as I respect your thoughts and this shows just how far a lie will travel.


I'm hardly attacking you, I'm disappointed that a non story is being given new life as it was debunked two weeks ago by people looking at the source material.

Yes, the issue is perception, but the perception has been created by the Tories (I'm referring to their social media output) and the right wing press.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

first time for everything eh?

what did you think of the Labour manifesto? How do you think it compared to what was being offered by the Tories and LibDems?

 

[londonblue]

first time for everything eh?

Question for you. IIRC you're based on South London, if so, are you a member of the Vauxhaull labour party?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I thought it was measured in dollars. Either way...

Not my understanding.Why would the EU measure their respective GDP's in a foreign currency?

He didn't make it clear. He was deliberately ambiguous according to some. Here's a quote from Imran Hussain:




I can show you the video if you want too.

I've seen the original NME interview .It was perfectly clear (to me at least).

http://www.nme.com/features/jeremy-corbyn-interview-2017-cover-feature-labour-2082433

NME: You’ve pledged to scrap tuition fees, which has gone down well. But it’s also kicked up a question for people who already have that debt, or people who are currently in university. What does it mean for people who’ve already been paying £9,000 a year?

JC: “First of all, we want to get rid of student fees altogether. We’ll do it as soon as we get in, and we’ll then introduce legislation to ensure that any student going from the 2017-18 academic year will not pay fees. They will pay them, but we’ll rebate them when we’ve got the legislation through – that’s fundamentally the principle behind it. Yes, there is a block of those that currently have a massive debt, and I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden. I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage – I don’t think anybody would expect me to, because this election was called unexpectedly; we had two weeks to prepare all of this – but I’m very well aware of that problem. And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.

What bit of "I will deal with it" don't you understand?

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Question for you. IIRC you're based on South London, if so, are you a member of the Vauxhaull labour party?

Lewisham Deptford mate

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

what did you think of the Labour manifesto? How do you think it compared to what was being offered by the Tories and LibDems?

I liked a lot of the content, which is no surprise as I consider myself a socialist. I didn't like that we were so dishonest though. There was really no reason to be. Saying that it was costed when our costings were so obviously not true. Then not including stuff like nationalisations which we'd pledged to do but not costed.

There's also a wider issue about honesty which is about taxation and popularism. The kind of public services that we have now, never mind extended ones and further expenditure, can't be paid for just by taxing 'the rich' or 'the top 5%'. That's a fact. So I am very disappointed that we didn't come out and say that if people want stuff they have to pay for it. Want a world class NHS fit for the 21st century? then everyone has to pay for it and it is a price well worth paying. Our failure to do that disappointed me

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I liked a lot of the content, which is no surprise as I consider myself a socialist. I didn't like that we were so dishonest though. There was really no reason to be. Saying that it was costed when our costings were so obviously not true. Then not including stuff like nationalisations which we'd pledged to do but not costed.

There's also a wider issue about honesty which is about taxation and popularism. The kind of public services that we have now, never mind extended ones and further expenditure, can't be paid for just by taxing 'the rich' or 'the top 5%'. That's a fact. So I am very disappointed that we didn't come out and say that if people want stuff they have to pay for it. Want a world class NHS fit for the 21st century? then everyone has to pay for it and it is a price well worth paying. Our failure to do that disappointed me

Sorry, which manifesto costings "were so obviously not true" for you? The commitment to take the railways back in public hands could not possibly have been costed in advance, as it will be done on an ad hoc basis, when existing rail franchises expire.

I think most people would agree to pay more on their income tax to fund the NHS but such "dedicated taxes" are not without risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothecated_tax