Who are we???

[Up the Shrimpers]

We are a mid table league one side at best . The championship season proved that , as we couldn't find a way to get the players we needed to survive , we didn't fill the stadium then, and we will struggle now to fill even if we get a big FA cup draw...

.....

Err yes we did. Home capacity was on average 95% full for every league game that season. There were probably 8 or 9 home games that if we had a larger capacity ground we would have 12k to 15k crowds, maybe a couple even higher than that (Ipswich, Norwich, Leeds games spring to mind)
The home average including away fans was 10,024 not bad when our usable home capacity was only about 8,750 and our overall capacity about 11,200.

 

[Tommy2holes]

Err yes we did. Home capacity was on average 95% full for every league game that season. There were probably 8 or 9 home games that if we had a larger capacity ground we would have 12k to 15k crowds, maybe a couple even higher than that (Ipswich, Norwich, Leeds games spring to mind)
The home average including away fans was 10,024 not bad when our usable home capacity was only about 8,750 and our overall capacity about 11,200.

Spot on. To compare our capacity at roots hall to progression is weak. Reading would never have played premier league or been an established championship side at elm park.

You can add Swansea hull brighton plus many others to that list.

 

[AndyT]

That may be true but he also has been afforded the highest budget in Southend a history.

It's all relative though, Isn't it.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Well some credit goes to PB for getting us a promotion. For me, the most successful years, have been under the tenure of RM. Like him or loathe him, he has raised the average fans expectation by providing managers with the funding to achieve some notable promotions. PB has benefited from this. Further, in my opinion, PB has been supported beyond the one promotion and the improved league positions that he has achieved. I am sure, the average so called PB hater, acknowledges the achievements of our manager but are damn sure, with what he has had at his disposal, he should have achieved more and with greater ease.
I wonder how much would have been done had Dave Webb or Dave Smith been given the opportunities afforded to PB? You can look at statistics all you like but, unless each manager had the same resources, then the statistics are meaningless. Those that believe PB has done the best with the squads he has had are far easier pleased than me.

 

[Shrimperforlife]

Err yes we did. Home capacity was on average 95% full for every league game that season. There were probably 8 or 9 home games that if we had a larger capacity ground we would have 12k to 15k crowds, maybe a couple even higher than that (Ipswich, Norwich, Leeds games spring to mind)
The home average including away fans was 10,024 not bad when our usable home capacity was only about 8,750 and our overall capacity about 11,200.

95 % isn't full and as you state you are 1176 short ( which is more than 5%). and the 8 games you quote is a guess ... and if, and its big if, we ever get a new stadium , I can't see us filling it, even in the championship.... the catchment area is large , but the premiership teams still draw too much away... (hamsters have seats empty in most games ) and the product on show for us isn't on high quality. (And at roots hall it's easy to get to by train , fossets im not so sure we will get such away train support .....and where will visitors park...?)

You can quote the 33000 we took as to Wembley an example , but Wembley at that point was an enigma, but a lot of those were day trippers and not the die hards to see 20+ games a season, at the prices we charge

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

95 % isn't full and as you state you are 1176 short ( which is more than 5%). and the 8 games you quote is a guess ... and if, and its big if, we ever get a new stadium , I can't see us filling it, even in the championship.... the catchment area is large , but the premiership teams still draw too much away... (hamsters have seats empty in most games ) and the product on show for us isn't on high quality. (And at roots hall it's easy to get to by train , fossets im not so sure we will get such away train support .....and where will visitors park...?)

You can quote the 33000 we took as to Wembley an example , but Wembley at that point was an enigma, but a lot of those were day trippers and not the die hards to see 20+ games a season, at the prices we charge

The 95% was HOME capacity which was based on only approx 8,750 HOME seats. We allowed away fans nearly 2,400 tickets for each game (apart from Hull City, reason given below)

Our total average crowd including away fans was 10,024 I'm not sure on the exact figures now but our home average not including away support was just over 8,500. We only had on average 250 seats left over for each home match.

We sold out about 15 games to home fans.

So 8,500 x 23 = 195,500 home fans in total and 250 x 23 = 5,750 'empty' seats
Therefore we had a potential home support capacity over the 23 games of 201,250 and we sold 195,500 of that. The actual % sold is nearer 97% but if you remember for 1 game v Hull City (Manchester United voucher game) we actually allowed home fans in part of the North Bank so for that game there was probably 9,750 Southend fans.

Our worst supported home game was the Cardiff game live on TV early in the season, probably 7,500 home fans so even that match there was only 1,250 empty home seats.

Yep the 8 games is a guess but had we been in a nice new shiny 20,000 ground in 2006/7 then its quite obvious crowds would have been even bigger.

Fossets Farm if it ever happens will only be half a mile further away from Prittlewell Station than Roots Hall. Parking could be an issue but I'm sure people will find new places to park.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Err yes we did. Home capacity was on average 95% full for every league game that season. There were probably 8 or 9 home games that if we had a larger capacity ground we would have 12k to 15k crowds, maybe a couple even higher than that (Ipswich, Norwich, Leeds games spring to mind)
The home average including away fans was 10,024 not bad when our usable home capacity was only about 8,750 and our overall capacity about 11,200.

I back that up. We were selling out home tickets for parts of that season and we spent most of the season towards the bottom of the league. If we have any ambition of establishing ourselves at Championship level of course we need a new stadium. Its really obvious.

 

[Stuart W]

The 95% was HOME capacity which was based on only approx 8,750 HOME seats. We allowed away fans nearly 2,400 tickets for each game (apart from Hull City, reason given below)

Our total average crowd including away fans was 10,024 I'm not sure on the exact figures now but our home average not including away support was just over 8,500. We only had on average 250 seats left over for each home match.

We sold out about 15 games to home fans.

So 8,500 x 23 = 195,500 home fans in total and 250 x 23 = 5,750 'empty' seats
Therefore we had a potential home support capacity over the 23 games of 201,250 and we sold 195,500 of that. The actual % sold is nearer 97% but if you remember for 1 game v Hull City (Manchester United voucher game) we actually allowed home fans in part of the North Bank so for that game there was probably 9,750 Southend fans.

Our worst supported home game was the Cardiff game live on TV early in the season, probably 7,500 home fans so even that match there was only 1,250 empty home seats.

Yep the 8 games is a guess but had we been in a nice new shiny 20,000 ground in 2006/7 then its quite obvious crowds would have been even bigger.

Fossets Farm if it ever happens will only be half a mile further away from Prittlewell Station than Roots Hall. Parking could be an issue but I'm sure people will find new places to park.

Good work on the stats. Apologies for going somewhat off topic, but it is your last paragraph I have a problem with. Fossetts Farm only half a mile further away from Prittlewell Station than Roots Hall - are you sure? I would say RH is no more than half a mile from the station, but FF would be nearer 2 miles.
Also, I would wager that as many fans use the Fenchurch Street line as use the Liverpool Street line. How convenient will FF be for them?

 

[AndyT]

We were talking about this the other day and it's actually closer than you think, in truth.

If you come up Station Approach and turn left towards Sutton Road and go that way, it's just around 1 mile and would take about 20 minutes to walk, so actually not a huge amount further than Roots Hall.

Ideally, a park & ride/train & ride from Southend Airport Station would be the best solution, especially if there's a way of linking that road through Warners Bridge and into Stock Road.

Fair point on the Fenchurch Street line. Again, a park & ride/train & ride would be the best solution. Probably from Southend East?

 

[Kevin Hogg]

With regards to PB and his relative success but obvious dislike by many - I have a theory.
Football support is often referred to as a kind of tribalism - looking after your own. Excellent example of that is perhaps "he's one of our own" sung to any player who is local or come through the ranks of any league club. Harry Kane is an exceptional example as he really is a great striker in his own right.
Part of PB's problem is that his success came after that of "one of our own" - Steve Tilson. Of course we did have the lovable but not successful Luggy who I think was liked as a great old uncle. But PB is brash and northern - he is the polar opposite to "one of our own" Stevie T. I honestly think that the loathers compare him to Tilly rather than judge him on equal terms.
Another example is his view of Adam Barrett. A Southend United Legend and of course - "one of our own". Now when age and nature caught up with Adam and the Brash Norvener ended his Shrimpers career - it appeared to some that the Outsider had kicked out one of the family. It was another reason to hate the bloke who will never accepted while compared against "One of our own".
I think PB will go soon. I think he should go somewhere that there is not a prejudice against him that he can never beat or do much about. THEN we will see how the club progresses ---or not.

 

[Kevin Hogg]

Case in point. The anti-PB Brigade often suggest The Cowley Brothers as natural replacement. Now they have the ideal credentials - they have had success. But so have lots of manager's never mentioned in relation to our club. The reason for the Cowley Boys being preferred to other successful manager's? You guessed it - Almost "One's of Our Own!". Local.

 

[Tommy2holes]

It's quite simple.

At roots hall we have NO future and absolutely NO room to grow.

Take this season as an example. If we had been in a new 20k stadium we could have offered great deals on tickets for most matches.

(ie) season cards for adults for £199 and under 21s OAPs for £99 and under 16s for £49.

Promote that against the backdrop of a wonderful new ground and im sure we could shift 10k+.

There would be a huge number increase in away support visiting a new stadium as let's face roots hall does not draw big away supports.

So let's say that we averaged 12k. That's 12k inside a stadium on a matchday with numerous bars and catering that you can actually get to as apposed to what we have now.

That's not including merchandise increases in shirt sales programmes etc.

Of course all of that is hypothetical, but I firmly believe that with fair wind we could achieve this comfortably.

Should the club be challenging then certain games could push attendances much higher.

To compare the above to the current structure is ignorance. We have in the recent past pulled in 10k for league 1 matches. This has been done with an average side in for awful facilities in a crumbling stadium. We have the supporters there.

 

[Tommy2holes]

Case in point. The anti-PB Brigade often suggest The Cowley Brothers as natural replacement. Now they have the ideal credentials - they have had success. But so have lots of manager's never mentioned in relation to our club. The reason for the Cowley Boys being preferred to other successful manager's? You guessed it - Almost "One's of Our Own!". Local.

Not just that at all. Yes of course it's nice to have local lads involved in the club.

But to say that is the only reason is a bit ignorant.

They have been a great success and the work rate and tactics they employ in most matches are head and shoulders above the dinosaur tactics we have seen recently.

The bring enthusiasm youth and freshness that an ageing manager like Brown doesn't have.

 

[Feathers]

That may be true but he also has been afforded the highest budget in Southend a history.

You have stated this a number of times but in itself is meaningless.

 

[E for B and Billy Best]

All very true, Kev. Despite size of catchment area and new stadium we are and always have been a top league 2 or middle order league 1 club. My Dad and his pals who used to support us at the Kursaal and Stadium always said it as well. Apart from a couple of seasons in our first flirtation with the championship, truth is we struggle to compete at the higher levels. Will it change anytime soon? Well it hasn't in the last 100 years so I very much doubt it will anytime soon.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

So have we decided who we are?

Are we a retirement home to past-it names or are we a club which has long term plans that go beyond our next match?

Are we the club who beat Man U or are we the club that has tamely gone out of the League Cup at home in the first round in each of the last five seasons?

Are we a club who plays positive football or a club who looks to shut down a game and waste time as soon as we take a lead?

Are we a southern club or a northern club? And if we are a southern club are we a mix of former Col Ewe, Wet Sham and Orient rejects?


Do we actually have an identity or do people just go as it is convenient?

 

[E for B and Billy Best]

I don't get the clamour for the Cowley brothers. Truth is they couldn't stand SUFC when they were involved with Concord.

 

[Kevin Hogg]

So have we decided who we are?

Are we a retirement home to past-it names or are we a club which has long term plans that go beyond our next match?

Are we the club who beat Man U or are we the club that has tamely gone out of the League Cup at home in the first round in each of the last five seasons?

Are we a club who plays positive football or a club who looks to shut down a game and waste time as soon as we take a lead?

Are we a southern club or a northern club? And if we are a southern club are we a mix of former Col Ewe, Wet Sham and Orient rejects?


Do we actually have an identity or do people just go as it is convenient?

Fair points. We are an imperfect club in SE Essex with a ground that is almost beyond being fit for purpose. Imagine a player coming to meet with the Manager (any manager) and being shown around. Is not the best.

I guess the answer YB is that - we are what we are at any given point. Currently a club in limbo in some respects. Endless talk of a new stadium and the impetus that MAY offer.

Whoever the Manager, PB, Cowley Bros, or anyone...they almost work with one arm tied. They would require better facilities - but those are promised with a new stadium - yet to materialise.

We are a club - doing it's best under difficult circumstances. Yet many expect promotion to the Championship as a given. It ain't that easy!

 

[onceknownasrab]

So have we decided who we are?

Are we a retirement home to past-it names or are we a club which has long term plans that go beyond our next match?

Are we the club who beat Man U or are we the club that has tamely gone out of the League Cup at home in the first round in each of the last five seasons?

Are we a club who plays positive football or a club who looks to shut down a game and waste time as soon as we take a lead?

Are we a southern club or a northern club? And if we are a southern club are we a mix of former Col Ewe, Wet Sham and Orient rejects?


Do we actually have an identity or do people just go as it is convenient?

Who we are is not set in stone and nor is it anchored by history. History tells us who we have been but the future is determined by who we want to be. If the last 100+ years is our benchmark we clearly have no aspiration. The way forward is with hope and optimism. We should always be looking to do better. Our catchment has exploded in size over the last few decades, and although many of the 'locals' support other clubs, they are not fans lost to us but are fans to win over. What occurs on the pitch will be our advert and success breeds success.

Are we a great club? yes. all clubs should be great to their supporters. Are we a big club? No, but we have an enormous potential to grow.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

All very true, Kev. Despite size of catchment area and new stadium we are and always have been a top league 2 or middle order league 1 club. My Dad and his pals who used to support us at the Kursaal and Stadium always said it as well. Apart from a couple of seasons in our first flirtation with the championship, truth is we struggle to compete at the higher levels. Will it change anytime soon? Well it hasn't in the last 100 years so I very much doubt it will anytime soon.

I'd have said this as well historically but the country changes.

Northern towns like Blackburn, Bolton, Bury and Blackpool were playing first division football when we were playing in Division 3S at the Kursaal. Back then they'd have been bigger and richer towns than Southend. But is that now true? We now regularly meet them in the third tier of English football. I don't see why we shouldn't be able to leapfrog a number of the northern sides whose prime, like a Phil Brown signing, has been and gone.