Centre Of Excellence

[One O'Clock At The Crane]

Yesterday, ASHRIMPER made an observation that he / she would prefer the CoE be scrapped and the extra 50p a ticket increase for this season used to fund player purchases.

Whilst I defended one or two of the players coming through, a very good point was raised.  It's a great idea, in principal, to have a local centre and attract the area's more skillful teenagers. In practice, though, is it working?  If not is it a worthwile exercise?

It was of particular relevance last night.  A lot of our younger players were on show.  You can, of course, look at the terrible conditions, the level of opposition, etc, but it was undeniable that even after taking this into account the performance of a fair few was dreadful.

You can, of course, put it down to a one-off and it would be foolish to judge on just one game.  If, however, you look at the final table for 2004's Youth Alliance division we are in, we finished second bottom. and are currently 7th out of 9 in 2005's Merit Table 3rd Division, below teams such as Cirencester.

A fair few of those brought through are also given their head in the reserve team.  Last season, however, we finished bottom with just a single point - ironically, with 10 men when Tes was sent off.  This season only Stevenage are below us and we have just one win all season.  As regulars will testify, watching the reserves is a labour of love.

Now, as I understood it, the CoE costs £170,000 to run, of which £138,000 was paid for by Football League grant.  This leaves a £32,000 shortfall, for which the club asked fans to fund, hence the £1.50 per ticket price increase rather than £1 and larger than averages hikes in season ticket prices.

As we have paid for almost 20% for the running of this centre, do you think the investment is worthwhile?  You could argue that you can't judge a centre on just one season but it appears we've been getting poor results season after season and very few players making the grade.

Would you rather have saved that £32,000 we were asked to stump up and used it instead to help bring in a player than would strengthen our first team squad?  With the first team flying but the rest struggling, this matter seems more relevant than it has for a good 10 years or so.

It'd be interesting to see what other people's views are.

 

[overseas shrimper]

Very good post. Being stuck in the med', I don't have much of an opinion, but I would like to know:

a) What the club have to say about this

and

b) What supporters closer to home think.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (One O'Clock At The Crane @ Mar. 02 2005,13:32)]As regulars will testify, watching the reserves is a labour of love.

If you are that much of an Anorak that you just *have* to attend reserve matches then I say you deserve all that you get!

I don't care if the reserves lose every game because I feel they serve several important purposes:

1. Players recovering from injury can regain match fitness.

2. Players on trial can be monitored. Would Fredy Eastwood have made a first team appearance if he hadn't played a few times for the reserves first?

3. Half the non league teams in Essex wouldn't be able to field a team if it wasn't for our rejects!

 

[neil]

In my opinion the youth structure is still suffering from the actions of David Webb and the appointment of Marc Massey. A director of the entire thing has only been appointed this year in Ross McLaren.

Youth system are long-term. They take years for dramatic changes to filter through, and I don't suppose that it will reap any benefits for a few years yet. It's something worth keeping though. If we want to compete at a higher level then we need to produce our own talented players because we won't be able to attract them to the club

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Liquid Ray - OOATC's post was not about scrapping the reserves, but the CoE.

OOATC - great post, v. thought provoking. CoE's - or indeed Academies - must surely be a good thing if properly run. It is this last caveat which is, I guess, the $64,000 (well, that's only just over £32K!) question.

Can our CoE emulate what is done at Crewe Alex? If so, then we should try to do that. If not, then you do have to wonder - what's the point...

Those who are closer to the youth set up and the reserves than I am can perhaps - and hopefully will - shed some light on this, I'm sure...

Matt

 

[Bucks_blue]

I think as Neil says they have to be given time. The current CoE has only been in existence in its current guise for a short time. If we get promoted then we will defientely need one and as we climb through the divisions we will be able to attract better players in to the acadamy in the first place. Then with well paid professionally qualified coaches we should be able to develop the odd diamond.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Mar. 02 2005,14:10)]Liquid Ray - OOATC's post was not about scrapping the reserves, but the CoE.

My post was in reply to OOATC's comment regarding the reserves and did not explicitly mention the C of E.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Bucks_blue @ Mar. 02 2005,14:26)]I think as Neil says they have to be given time. The current CoE has only been in existence in its current guise for a short time. If we get promoted then we will defientely need one and as we climb through the divisions we will be able to attract better players in to the acadamy in the first place. Then with well paid professionally qualified coaches we should be able to develop the odd diamond.

To be honest, I think a centre of excellence will be of more use to a div 4 team than a div 2 team because the standard is lower more players will then 'make it'.

Its obvious that the youth system hasn't justified itself by producing players recently. However any changes will probably take a decade to filter through.

There's no doubt that a top class C of E would be of great benefit, but whether we would ever get one is another question.

In the meantime I think we probably get some fringe benefits from the FA grant - for example I wouldn't be surprised if some of the facilities used by the youth team (and therefore subsidised by the FA) are also used by the first team.

 

[Firestorm]

The Centre of excellence suffers because of the proximity to major clubs. Locals who are any good get picked up by the prem /championship clubs at a very early age.
Kirk Hudson, The lad who was in the echo the other month doing very well in the Celtic u19's side was picked up by Arsenal at 11, was also at academies at Ipswich and Chelsea before going up north on a YTS. He was shoebury born, atttending Friars and then the high School at Shoebury.

Now assuming that a centre of excellence picks up the real talent at 10 years old, it would take 6 years before the majority of us will even get to hear about the lad. As our centre has only been going in its current format for a few years we will not now about the real young talent yet. Also anyone coming through would have only come to us at 14, which indicates that they were not good enough for the bigger clubs to look at in the first place.

I would like to see how, Bury, Rochdale and the other clubs with big neighbours do at u16 level...

BTW wasn't Freddy with us at u16 until Wet Spam offered him a YTS ?

 

[ASHRIMPER]

I did not say it should be scrapped but i said that i thought its not been doing that well recently,especally over the last few years as we have had very few players come through to play regurley for the 1st team. The last good one was roget and the only other player to come through our youth team and still playing in the football league is Leon Johnson. The likes of fitz/kerrigan/mcsweeney have also come through but are now playing in non league!

 

[shrimper roman]

you are wasting your time lads

the centre of excellence
can only produce results if they have the best local coaches and scouts.this is not the case so the coaches are s***t and
the resulting product is s***t as well

i still blame tilly for letting that coach et go.he was undoubtedly the best coach we ever had

 

[sufcintheprem]

I'm happy enough having the CoE. It actually drains our resources a lot less than I thought. Very informative that first post.

Of course, if we produce one first team regular from it, I reckon it's worth it.

 

[Guest]

The problem with the COE is that a guy called Dave Carter has a great deal of imput into it. As I understand it he is responsable for employing coaches and running all the sides from u16 downwards, by the way he is useless and talks absolute crap, and Ross Maclaren is responsable for all the scolars.
A guy called Georgey Young who is great friends with Tilly, and has played to a very high standard of non league, used to be involved until he fell out with Dave Carter.
dave Carter has never kicked a ball in his life and his only knowledge of football is watching/helping run his son's side (Hyde Rovers) who actually produced players that have gone onto be pro's i.e. Matthew Rose, Lee Bowyer and Matt Brazier.
If you ask him who the best young player he has ever seen is he will tell you his son Steve who was last seen trying to get a game at Maldon Town. When asked about Fredy Eastwood prior to him signing when the rumours started flying around he was on his way, he said 'lazy git and I wouldn't give him the time of day'
Having said all of the above he is committed and works for practically bugger all.
I think the COE needs to be run properly by people who know the game. There must be loads of ex players who would jump at the chance to run a COE and don't want huge amounts of money, Paul Parker springs to mind who lives locally and doesn't exactly need fortunes to scrape by on.

 

[The Artful Shrimper]

A rhetorical answer by someone like that Oscar Wilde, whom my girlfriend assumed was a drummer in a punk band, would be;-
It is an example of antithesis, there is a centre of excellence, so where is the excellence centred?

 

[Thenewblue]

I think with the new transfer window coming in we will need youth players more than ever as replacements for positions won't be permited to sign in any capacity and obviously at our level squad sizes are minimal. So I think in future seasons youth/reserve players may become crucial in the latter stages of seasons and the team with the best youth players may excel more than other clubs.

 

[shrimper roman]

so we don't stand a chance

we will go straight down if
it is going to be like that

 

[Stats]

Problem is that all the decent young talent is snapped up round here by the london clubs.

I mean none of the players we have had come through our youth system in the past few seasons have gone on to be regulars in the first team.

Our best bet is to keep looking out for the players being released from Premier$hite youth teams like Jay Smith

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (statski77 @ Mar. 04 2005,08:52)]Our best bet is to keep looking out for the players being released from Premier$hite youth teams like Jay Smith

......and Michael Husbands,

......and Steven Clark

......and Marek Szmid.

 

[Guest]

wor ru tlking bout u mug stvn clrk was a brgain at 50k!!!!

well fast agnst plymth dont u even remember???!!!!!

newman out NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh markey rawle, markey markey markey rawle. I love flvas.