1st Test v Pakistan

[canveyshrimper]

England win the toss and will bat. Hoggard plays after doubts over his hand injury.

Come on England.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (canveyshrimper @ July 13 2006,10:35)]Hoggard plays after doubts over his hand injury.
Hurrah!

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Interesting call, to bat. I would have thought that if the ball swings at all, it'll be this morning - breezy and overcast. From this afternoon onwards, it's supposed to be wall-to-wall sunshine... so if our pace attack were going to make inroads, it would be this morning.

I guess they didn't fancy facing Danish on a day 5 pitch, and that the only way to pressurise Inzy is to put a big total on the board. We'll have to wait and see, I guess...

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[C C Csiders]

We need to get the confidence back-up in time for the winter.

This is going to be a BIG series. I take us to win it 2-1.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 13 2006,11:01)]We need to get the confidence back-up in time for the winter.

This is going to be a BIG series. I take us to win it 2-1.
Agreed; definitely agreed; and I hope you're right, but I fear 1-1.

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 13 2006,11:05)]
Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 13 2006,11:01)]We need to get the confidence back-up in time for the winter.

This is going to be a BIG series. I take us to win it 2-1.
Agreed; definitely agreed; and I hope you're right, but I fear 1-1.
I was surprised to see that we have not beaten Pakistan in England since 1982, mind you there has only been 4 seies since that time.

Pakistan are in the same boat as England with their bowling resources, they are missing Shoaib Akhtar, Rana Naved & Asif. I would suggest it will be the bat that will dominate in this series, and i fear 1-1.

[canveyshrimper]

Quick start by England 30/0 from 5 overs.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Blimey, rattling along - 55/0 off 9 ov.

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 13 2006,11:41)]Blimey, rattling along - 55/0 off 9 ov.
One-day scoring rate. However, we are rubbish at one-day cricket, so this is going to end only one way - I can see it coming. http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[MrB]

Elsewhere Essex are playing a must not lose game against Gloucestershire who sit behind them in 4th with a game in hand in division 2. Gloucestershire won the toss and are batting, 44-0 from 10 overs. A reasonable pace there as well.

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 13 2006,11:51)]
Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 13 2006,11:41)]Blimey, rattling along - 55/0 off 9 ov.
One-day scoring rate. However, we are rubbish at one-day cricket, so this is going to end only one way - I can see it coming. http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Trescothick gone - here we go!

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 13 2006,11:59)]
Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 13 2006,11:51)]
Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 13 2006,11:41)]Blimey, rattling along - 55/0 off 9 ov.
One-day scoring rate. However, we are rubbish at one-day cricket, so this is going to end only one way - I can see it coming. http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Trescothick gone - here we go!
Swiftly followed by Strauss - bugger!!

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 13 2006,11:59)]
Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 13 2006,11:51)]
Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 13 2006,11:41)]Blimey, rattling along - 55/0 off 9 ov.
One-day scoring rate. However, we are rubbish at one-day cricket, so this is going to end only one way - I can see it coming. http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Trescothick gone - here we go!
Strauss too. 60/2

Massive reliance now on Pietersen to ensure a competitive score. If he goes early we will be in disarray.

[MrB]

I'm also concerned about Sunday now Matt! http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Uncle Leo]

Oh sh!t. Pietersen gone, 88-3.

[MrB]

If either Cook or Colly go before lunch we're in serious trouble. Anyone have faith in Bell coming in at 6?

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (MrB @ July 13 2006,12:48)]If either Cook or Colly go before lunch we're in serious trouble. *Anyone have faith in Bell coming in at 6?
Cometh' the hour, an' all that.

The two in at the moment, plus Bell have to do it on their own, because the chances of numbers 7-11 making more than about 50 between them are slim.

[canveyshrimper]

176/3 - still going at over 4 an over.

[C C Csiders]

Superb recovery by tea with half-centuries and more to add from Alistair Cook (who I must admit I had doubts about his Test credentials, despite his initial successes) and Paul Collingwood (who has been a batting revelation since the winter).

We could be 350+ by close. Famous last words?

[Museshrimper]

Bloody hell, Collingwood just been dropped by the keeper. You wont see an easier chance all game, incredible.

[canveyshrimper]

280/3

Collingwood 100* Cook 82* now added almost 200 for the 4th wicket. Still 14 overs to go today. Be handy for both to be there at stumps and 300+ on the board.

[Uncle Leo]

Quote[/b] (Museshrimper @ July 13 2006,16:18)]Bloody hell, Collingwood just been dropped by the keeper. You wont see an easier chance all game, incredible.
The Pakistani fielding is making our performance against Sri Lanka at Lord's look respectable. Which is saying something.

[Matt the Shrimp]

287/3 - played Colly, ton up.

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OK, without looking at your stats books and with no cheating etc. etc... England v. Pakistan have played eight test series since the summer of 1983. There's an even home & away split (i.e. 4 in each country).

Of those eight series, how do you reckon they have been carved up, in terms of:

England wins
Pakistan wins
Drawn series...?

No cheating now, just put the number down on this thread, and then PM me if you want the answer.

All I'll say is: I was surprised...

Matt

P.S. MrB - we'll be fine for Sunday. There are loads of runs in these sides, and by the looks of it, not so many wickets...

[Museshrimper]

Cook just got his his hundred http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Matt the Shrimp]

309/3 at stumps. Happy with that.

So, no one doing my "Eng wins / Pak wins / Draws in the last 8 series" challenge? *Oh well, we can resume in the morning...

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[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 13 2006,18:26)]309/3 at stumps. *Happy with that.

So, no one doing my "Eng wins / Pak wins / Draws in the last 8 series" challenge? *Oh well, we can resume in the morning...

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I know England have not beaten Pakistan at home since 1982. So i will guess at 4 wins to Pakistan 1 to England in Pakistan in 2000 and 3 draws.

[scrounger]

Quote[/b] (canveyshrimper @ July 13 2006,18:52)]
Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 13 2006,18:26)]309/3 at stumps. Happy with that.

So, no one doing my "Eng wins / Pak wins / Draws in the last 8 series" challenge? Oh well, we can resume in the morning...

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I know England have not beaten Pakistan at home since 1982. So i will guess at 4 wins to Pakistan 1 to England in Pakistan in 2000 and 3 draws.
Yea they mentioned it just a few times during the course of the day about the fact we haven't beaten them at home since 1982. Almost as shocking as the England not beating Sweden statistic.

[C C Csiders]

Top of th ehead guess 6 wins to Pakistan, 1 england and 1 drawn series.

[The General]

402-4

Collingwood 165 and Bell 33 after Cook went for 105 this morning.

[canveyshrimper]

426/4 at lunch - Collingwood 179 Bell 43

Top effort from Collingwood - and over 100 added in the session.

Hopefully we can have around 550 on the board just after Tea, and have 90 minutes or so in the field with a couple of wickets before stumps.

That's the theory at least.

[Bluesmanager]

Collingwood out 186 stumped.

[MrB]

Certainly been slow going this afternoon compared to this morning, would have expected it to be the other way round.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 14 2006,09:27)]Top of th ehead guess 6 wins to Pakistan, 1 england and 1 drawn series.
That top of your head was jolly good. Spot on.

Blimey, I certainly didn't think that Pakistan would be 6-1-1 over us in the last 8 series...

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[Matt the Shrimp]

So, how long can Jones keep disappointing with the bat, when he's not exactly in the side for his gloves?

Out for 18, England now 469/6. With the length of our tail (Plunkett's in at 6th man down, for goodness sake!), I'd take 500 right now...

Matt

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 14 2006,15:06)]
Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 14 2006,09:27)]Top of th ehead guess 6 wins to Pakistan, 1 england and 1 drawn series.
That top of your head was jolly good. *Spot on.

Blimey, I certainly didn't think that Pakistan would be 6-1-1 over us in the last 8 series...

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An honest guess. Theonly time I recall beating them is the Nasser and Thorpe in the gloom victory in Pakistan. Whereas I can remember some abject performances at home where we were skittled by Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis, and screwed by (alleged) ball-tampering by the fast bowler whose name escapes me.

Also remember us being skittled on one Saturday afternoon in the 80's by a bowler called Tahir Naqqash - never heard of before, or since.

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 14 2006,15:09)]So, how long can Jones keep disappointing with the bat, when he's not exactly in the side for his gloves?

Out for 18, England now 469/6. *With the length of our tail (Plunkett's in at 6th man down, for goodness sake!), I'd take 500 right now...

Matt
He is long overdue a rest (at least). He ispoor with bat and gloves, and has been (with one or two at most) exceptions for the last 2 years.

Chris Read hit 150 for England A last week, and surely must play - he is far, far, far better with gloves and at least an equal now with the bat. Poor Read has been paying for years now for that dismissal where he ducked under the ball and was bowled at Lord's, IIRC against New Zealand.

Give him a go.

As you say MtS 500 is looking distant, although anything less than 525 has to be seen as a poor show from our lunch position.

I would stick Harmison in at 9 at the fall of the next wicket with instruction to play his shots rather than the shot-less Hoggard who will just succeed in eeking away time and score precious few runs. Theer is a time and a place for that sort of batting display from Hoggy but now is not it.

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 14 2006,15:15)]I would stick Harmison in at 9 at the fall of the next wicket with instruction to play his shots rather than the shot-less Hoggard who will just succeed in eeking away time and score precious few runs. Theer is a time and a place for that sort of batting display from Hoggy but now is not it.
Oh well. Hoggy in at 9 after Plunkett's duck. Pathetic tail performance beckons I'm afraid.

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 14 2006,15:21)]
Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 14 2006,15:15)]I would stick Harmison in at 9 at the fall of the next wicket with instruction to play his shots rather than the shot-less Hoggard who will just succeed in eeking away time and score precious few runs. Theer is a time and a place for that sort of batting display from Hoggy but now is not it.
Oh well. Hoggy in at 9 after Plunkett's duck. Pathetic tail performance beckons I'm afraid.
Fletcher rarely messes with the batting order.
Hopefully Harmison will swing the bat, at 11am yesterday if England had been offered 500+ they would have snapped your arm off. It is a position where only one team will win, however with our limited bowling resources then the draw looks favourite to me.

With regard to the wicket keeper, Jones is most unlikely to be dropped, it is now sheer recalcitrance from Fletcher & Graveney that keeps him in the team.

I strongly disagree with you about Chris Read, as I feel (and it may be Essex bias) that James Foster is both a better batsman & keeper than Read. It is still beyond me why Foster has dropped behind Jones, Read & Pror in the pecking order. Barely 4 years ago he earned great reviews for coming into the side in Australia and keeping brilliantly in a losing side in one game. He was left out of the 5th test and has not been seen since. Chris Read supporters say he has been hard done by but Foster has had worse treatment than Read IMO.

Latest 494/7 coming up to Tea. 10 overs or so to swing the bat after Tea and then 15/20 overs at Pakistan before stumps.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Completely agree about Fozzie, can't understand why he keeps getting overlooked... although Read is in great form at the moment.

If Jones drops any more clangers behind the stumps once Pakistan go in, then the clamour for change will grow ever louder...

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[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 14 2006,15:52)]If Jones drops any more clangers behind the stumps once Pakistan go in, then the clamour for change will grow ever louder...

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Agree with you about that, and the deeper Fletcher, Graveney & the selectors will dig their heels in.

I will wager that Jones will be first choice for the 1st Ashes test at the Gabba in November.

[canveyshrimper]

528/9 - Ian Bell 100 not out.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (canveyshrimper @ July 14 2006,15:59)]
Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 14 2006,15:52)]If Jones drops any more clangers behind the stumps once Pakistan go in, then the clamour for change will grow ever louder...

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Agree with you about that, and the deeper Fletcher, Graveney & the selectors will dig their heels in.

I will wager that Jones will be first choice for the 1st Ashes test at the Gabba in November.
Sadly, I think you're right about that...

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Anyhoo, 528/9 dec - well happy with that. *Bell becomes England's 100th Test centurion at Lord's - how's that for a random stat?! *And three tons in the one innings - blimey, says a lot about (a) the bowling; and (b) some careless batting by the likes of Banger, Strauss and KP - all of whom will be sore that numbers 3, 5 and 6 promptly went and filled their boots.

Tonight should be an interesting 12ov or so - although there's a hell of a lot of batting in the Pakistan side: Younis, Yousuf and Inzy are all in the PWC Top 10... and then you've got Afridi and Razzaq for good measure.

This looks like a high-scoring draw all the way, doesn't it...?!

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[canveyshrimper]

The keeper Kamran Akmal coming in at 8 is no mug either, he took a big 100 off England in the last test in the winter. Fortunately for England Younis Khan missed this test, but having Razzaq coming in at 7 would put me off as a bowler. However if we can make in roads into their batting tonight who knows, but a draw looks to be the favourite.

Agree with you about the Tres, Strauss & KP they will be furious about missing the boat on this track.

I am looking forward to seeing Monty Panesar having a bowl at such accomplished players of spin like Inzy & Yousuf.

[Bluesmanager]

Pakistan 6-0. Hoggard's going haywire a tad.

Got one! Butt caught by Strauss for 10

28-1

And Collingwood gets another one. 28(ish - radio commentators are dodgy)-2

[Matt the Shrimp]

28/2... Harmy, you beauty!

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[Bluesmanager]

Pakistan 499 behind, need 329 to avoid the follow on. Come on lads, quick wicket this evening or early tommorow and we'll be laughing.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Well, yesterday was enjoyable, if a little frustrating - and the credit for the latter must go to the Pakistani bowlers, who bowled with a lot of discipline and restricted England's run scoring opportunities.

Unfortunately, the last potential match-winning partnership was blown by Strauss who, desperate to get to his century, managed to run Ian Bell out (who, I have to say, looked to be batting with real fluency).

With Strauss now gone, probably England's chances of victory have as well, unless Harmison can go in this morning and score a quick-fire 30-odd. That might change the complexion of things a little.

As predicted, though, bat has ruled over ball this test match. Let's hope the return of Freddy for the next Test evens that up for us.

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Matt

[canveyshrimper]

Sounds like a good assessment, although I did not see much of the play yesterday.

I think England will bat on for about 8 overs this morning and try to get another 25-30 or so before declaring (or being bowled out) leaving Pakistan 370 or so off 80 overs. Then it will be up to the bowlers, and in particular Panesar on a pitch offering assistance.

Freddy looks like he will be ready for the 2nd test, which will be a great shame for Ian Bell who is likely to make way for him. I hope that Bell has gone some way to showing his doubters what he can do under pressure.

[Bluesmanager]

269-7, another 30 odd runs and we've got a crack at it, if we can get rid of the 200 run guy whose name I can't remember.

[canveyshrimper]

296/8 dec

Pakistan need 380 to win - can't see them going for that judging the comments by Bob Woolmer last night. Looks likely to be a draw. http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Bluesmanager]

5-1 - Hoggard gets a great LBW first ball of the innings.

[MrB]

43-2 at lunch, 8 wickets to get in 64 overs. At least we can be aggressive as there's no way they can get to the total, just need to take out Yousuf.

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (MrB @ July 17 2006,13:21)]43-2 at lunch, 8 wickets to get in 64 overs. *At least we can be aggressive as there's no way they can get to the total, just need to take out Yousuf.
If we can knock over Yousuf & Inzy then maybe. I was a bit surprised that Panesar did not have an over or two before lunch.

I agree that we should set attacking fields with Panesar toiling at one end and the fast bowlers in short spells from the other.

I still think it will be a draw.

[MrB]

More than likely. Sounds like Monty is getting plenty of movement though, you never know....

[canveyshrimper]

I just think their batting is pretty solid, and they are also traditionally good players of spin. But get one and another one or two often follow quickly.

[MrB]

That's the one we wanted! Game on now....

[canveyshrimper]

142/4 - Inzy will be the key.

2 for Monty.

[C C Csiders]

Go on Monty, you can do it.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Well, Faisal Iqbal has gone now, to Monty again... so it's getting interesting, although the draw is still favourite.

A good aggressive field, according to Cricinfo:

<span style='color:blue'>The field - two slips, silly point, short cover, short leg, mid-on and mid-off, and one man sweeping on either side</span>

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ July 17 2006,15:38)]Well, Faisal Iqbal has gone now, to Monty again... so it&#39;s getting interesting, although the draw is still favourite.

A good aggressive field, according to Cricinfo:

<span style='color:blue'>The field - two slips, silly point, short cover, short leg, mid-on and mid-off, and one man sweeping on either side</span>
Bloody hell, just like the old cricket films you see of Laker and Lock bowling.

32 overs left to pick up 6. Get Inzy and it could be a house of cards.

[number11]

Shame England seem to be pretty well served in the batting front but a bit thin with bowlers. When you think we have the 6 batsmen playing at the moment, plus Vaughan out injured and Key, Shah, Joyce who could all come in and do OK in my opinion.

Wheras Plunkett just doesnt seem ready. Bowls some excellent deliveries but also pretty much guarantees two poor balls an over. Jones and Anderson are out, but other then that there isnt a great queue.

Be harsh on Bell to be dropped for the next test, as a slightly negative move, why not bring in Flintoff for Plunkett. Freddie is a better bowler at then Plunkett at the minute and could come in at the true allrounders position of 7. Would also allow them to play Read at 8 (assuming they accept he is the better keeper then Jones but not good enough with the willow to bat at 7).

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (number11 @ July 17 2006,16:00)]Be harsh on Bell to be dropped for the next test, as a slightly negative move, why not bring in Flintoff for Plunkett. Freddie is a better bowler at then Plunkett at the minute and could come in at the true allrounders position of 7. Would also allow them to play Read at 8 (assuming they accept he is the better keeper then Jones but not good enough with the willow to bat at 7).
Sounds a good call, but I would be controversial on here and leave out Cook - who was fortunate enough to be dropped three times on his way to his first innings century, whereas Bell scored a chanceless 100 and was unlucky to be run out by his captain yesterday.

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ July 17 2006,16:07)]
Quote[/b] (number11 @ July 17 2006,16:00)]Be harsh on Bell to be dropped for the next test, as a slightly negative move, why not bring in Flintoff for Plunkett. Freddie is a better bowler at then Plunkett at the minute and could come in at the true allrounders position of 7. Would also allow them to play Read at 8 (assuming they accept he is the better keeper then Jones but not good enough with the willow to bat at 7).
Sounds a good call, but I would be controversial on here and leave out Cook - who was fortunate enough to be dropped three times on his way to his first innings century, whereas Bell scored a chanceless 100 and was unlucky to be run out by his captain yesterday.
Good points, but I don&#39;t think it will happen. It looks likely that Flintoff will be fit for the next match, therefore he will definitely come back into the team, and probably in the place of Bell.

England under Fletcher are always quite clear in their thinking, and Fletcher (especially at Old Trafford) will always prefer to go in with 5 front line bowlers. Rather than using the bits and pieces of Collingwood, Bell or KP. Although it is tough on Bell I think this thinking is right, it also highlights how much England miss Ashley Giles who will generally make a contribution at 8, Plunkett is still very inexperienced although improving. It is also encouraging to hear that Jimmy Anderson is on his way back &amp; Simon Jones is making noises about being available this winter.

As discussed earlier in this thread I feel it is also highly unlikely that Chris Read will get the gig as keeper with the current selectors &amp; coach.