New Ground

[Smiffy]

So, what do we all think?

Look's spot on to me..

Let's hope it's not a pipe dream.

http://www.southendunited.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/a7/20/0,,10444~3088551,00.jpg


http://www.southendunited.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/a9/20/0,,10444~3088553,00.jpg

http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Pubey]

very smart! my only concern is that i hope the stands are steeper than they look, so the back row seats are still close to the pitch... and also that is a lot of green grass between the touch line and stand... hopefully that would be a bit closer too

[Smiffy]

According to McScriven the seats and gradient are closer and steeper than at RH, even though it doesnt look like it in the images...

Scriv, can you confirm?..

http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Pubey]

Quote[/b] (Smiffy @ Jan. 19 2007,10:03)]According to McScriven the seats and gradient are closer and steeper than at RH, even though it doesnt look like it in the images...

Scriv, can you confirm?..

http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
good news.. i heard one of the key aims was to maintain the closeness of the fans to the pitch... roots hall, even with the pillars has some of the best views from any ground... i love sitting near the back of the west and still feeling like im next to the pitch (if that makes sense!!)

[Interpol Shrimper]

Very smart.
Looks like a mixture of the new Donny ground & Swansea's Liberty Stadium (which we all know Uncle Ron was rather impressed with!)
Hope we live to see it for real.........

[Jam_Man]

Looks fantastic, if the gradient is as steep as the east stand Id be delighted.

[C'mon you Blues]

Looks great. Good for the club and good for the town.
However there was a pile of negative crap in the Echo last night from the boss of the Victoria Plaza (well he would wouldn't he - moaning about competion to the High Street) the chief executive of Renaissance Southend (what a f%cking waste of taxpayers money that is) and some council officers who should be sacked. What a crappy town and crappy council. Ms Mirren called Southend the armpit of Essex. It's actually a bit further south. Pathetic. http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[Pubey]

if southend wants to improve it needs better leisure facilities, decent shops and a decent f%cking stadium for its football team!!! this whole project will look to provide these... as long as we can get the small problems ironed out then i believe that this plan will benefit everyone (fans or not) and will be something that the town is proud of!

[Jam_Man]

Quote[/b] (C'mon you Blues @ Jan. 19 2007,10:28)]Looks great. Good for the club and good for the town.
However there was a pile of negative crap in the Echo last night from the boss of the Victoria Plaza (well he would wouldn't he - moaning about competion to the High Street) the chief executive of Renaissance Southend (what a f%cking waste of taxpayers money that is) and some council officers who should be sacked. What a crappy town and crappy council. Ms Mirren called Southend the armpit of Essex. It's actually a bit further south. Pathetic. http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Try not to dismiss every objection as crap...

That guys job is to turn Victoria Plaza into a decent shopping centre, and lets face it the place needs a lift after the last 15 years or so.

He has a point that the development will act as competition for the Plaza and the hight street.

Now Im 100% behind the development but as a Southend resident I too want to see a decent high street and if Fossetts did result in the deterioration of it (further!) then Id not be happy.

However heres the big but! *Surely the shops you find in a high street arent the same as you get in a retail park ?
eg. Currys always get a shop on every retail park, yet they still have a smaller one on the high street.
I cant see that the retailers that you will get at Fossetts will simply withdraw from the High Street, or have even been there in the first place.

Personally I see Fossetts as an alternative that will mean I dont travel to Basildon, rather than a replacement for the High Street.

[C'mon you Blues]

Quote[/b] (jontosh2001 @ Jan. 19 2007,10:31)]if southend wants to improve it needs better leisure facilities, decent shops and a decent f%cking stadium for its football team!!! this whole project will look to provide these... as long as we can get the small problems ironed out then i believe that this plan will benefit everyone (fans or not) and will be something that the town is proud of!
try telling this boneheaded council that. What a bunch of no hopers. Mind you they can't even keep the streets clean so you can't expect much. Sack the lot of them.
PS you can (almost) understand why Vic Jobson said sod this for a game of soldiers I'm off to Basildon.

[Pubey]

Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Jan. 19 2007,10:37)]
Quote[/b] (C'mon you Blues @ Jan. 19 2007,10:28)]Looks great. Good for the club and good for the town.
However there was a pile of negative crap in the Echo last night from the boss of the Victoria Plaza (well he would wouldn't he - moaning about competion to the High Street) the chief executive of Renaissance Southend (what a f%cking waste of taxpayers money that is) and some council officers who should be sacked. What a crappy town and crappy council. Ms Mirren called Southend the armpit of Essex. It's actually a bit further south. Pathetic. http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Try not to dismiss every objection as crap...

That guys job is to turn Victoria Plaza into a decent shopping centre, and lets face it the place needs a lift after the last 15 years or so.

He has a point that the development will act as competition for the Plaza and the hight street.

Now Im 100% behind the development but as a Southend resident I too want to see a decent high street and if Fossetts did result in the deterioration of it (further!) then Id not be happy.

However heres the big but! *Surely the shops you find in a high street arent the same as you get in a retail park ?
eg. Currys always get a shop on every retail park, yet they still have a smaller one on the high street.
I cant see that the retailers that you will get at Fossetts will simply withdraw from the High Street, or have even been there in the first place.
nail on the head!! the type of shops i would hope to see in the retail park at FF wouldn't be the same as the High Street, B&Q, furniture stores, Choice, Halfords etc etc... hopefully it will compete with other retail areas in essex and lakeside and provide southend with something it hasn't already got. Also the town is crying out for its own "festival leisure" style park and i hope FF will be a bit like this, with some chain pubs and restaurants which will get used 24/7

[Smiffy]

I reckon we should all boycott voting for our local MP's

I know I will.

The useless *******s.

http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[Pubey]

Quote[/b] (C'mon you Blues @ Jan. 19 2007,10:40)]
Quote[/b] (jontosh2001 @ Jan. 19 2007,10:31)]if southend wants to improve it needs better leisure facilities, decent shops and a decent f%cking stadium for its football team!!! this whole project will look to provide these... as long as we can get the small problems ironed out then i believe that this plan will benefit everyone (fans or not) and will be something that the town is proud of!
try telling this boneheaded council that. What a bunch of no hopers. Mind you they can't even keep the streets clean so you can't expect much. Sack the lot of them.
PS you can (almost) understand why Vic Jobson said sod this for a game of soldiers I'm off to Basildon.
well i think the key objection about the retail area is that it will detract from the high street... but i think the key problem with the high street is that lakeside and bluewater are so close that people only go there if they know what they want, not for a browse. For me that is where the key competition is.... FF will offer different shops and a different retail experience... again like the Airport retail area, you will pop down there if you need a specific shop as it is easy to park and convenient..

the other key issues are to do with the training ground and rochford, and the traffic issues... it's not going to be clear cut and i think the points made by the officers recommendations are serious points, but can still be ironed out IMO

[Jam_Man]

Why so many over reactions ?

People are going to object to this project, dont take it so personally.

Its not our local MPs or council out to get us believe it or not!

They have to consider all aspects of the project and all its effects.

I get the impression that they are behind the project, but not at the expense of everything else in the community.

To say you understand why Vic Jobson gave up is amusing, bearing in mind he had no consideration for his own fans let alone the community! I dont even remember seeing a hand drawn sketch of his "plan" ?

Chill guys, if it doesnt get the green light this week Im sure it will get agreed soon after some tweaks.

[Shrimpergarry]

Quote[/b] (C'mon you Blues @ Jan. 19 2007,10:28)]the chief executive of Renaissance Southend (what a f%cking waste of taxpayers money that is)
The Chief Executive of Renaissance Southend is a guy called Mike Lambert and he used to be my boss many moons ago.

He's actually a town planner by profession (and a damn good one at that- much better than the muppets at Southend BC) and a great bloke - perhaps the only thing wrong with him is that he's a Col******r fan (albeit an armchair one rather than a regular supporter)!!!

Although I haven't worked as a town planner for over 12 years now, I am professionally qualified in the discipline so read the technical reports (68 pages of them) with some interest.

What strikes me, taking the emotion out of it, is that the consultants working for the club haven't done as thorough job as I would have hoped.

We all love Southend and are desperate for the new ground, but the planners working for SBC - whatever you or I may think of them - are working within some pretty strict Government policy areas. Therefore whatever the emotion attached to the situation, they have to do their job properly. With regard to large retail developments there is some very specific guidance which must be followed before it is permitted and the club simply haven't followed it. Neither has the traffic survey been done to the necessary standard.

Now Ron Martin is a shrewd developer and has obviously made a decision not to follow the advice to the letter (they had enough pre-meetings with the council so he must know what they need) - I would guess either because the results of the surveys do not enhance our case or because he feels that the emotional arguments will hold sway with the Councillors and so there's no point in paying more money to expensive consultants than is necessary.

Don't hold your breath comrades - I can't see anyway this will be approved next week! Sorry to be negative - I want it as much as the rest of you.

[Bielzibubz]

After reading yesterdays Echo I really do fear that this is going to turn into a long and protracted saga. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif I hope I'm wrong but business orientated objectors to any major development project have a lot of sway with councillors.

[Jam_Man]

Well the issues raised over the last week are only what we knew anyway.

Whilst I was confident of it being agreed before (due to Ron Martin's confidence) following the planners report I think it will be deferred next week.

We will get it but we need to be patient for now.

Looking forward to the posts on Wednesday afternoon after the decision http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[South Bank Hank]

Does anyone on here know how these enquiries actually work?

Surely the Councillors will have a pretty good idea of all the issues by now (and will have already made their own decisions?) or does D-Day represent a presentation of all arguments for and against, followed by a debate and then a group decision?

[South Benfleet Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Smiffy @ Jan. 19 2007,10:42)]I reckon we should all boycott voting for our local MP's

I know I will.

The useless b@stards.

http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Smiffy,

James Duddridge, the MP for Rochford and Southend East, is a converted Southend fan - and I know is behind the new stadium complex.

They aren't all bad ! !

CICB

[C'mon you Blues]

Quote[/b] (Smiffy @ Jan. 19 2007,10:42)]I reckon we should all boycott voting for our local MP's

I know I will.

The useless *******s.

http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
both MPs are behind it. It's this useless council

[C'mon you Blues]

Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Jan. 19 2007,10:53)]To say you understand why Vic Jobson gave up is amusing, bearing in mind he had no consideration for his own fans let alone the community! I dont even remember seeing a hand drawn sketch of his "plan" ?
There were plans and they looked pretty good. It was in exactly the same spot with NO retail. I might be over reacting but I've lived in this town for too long to expect are beloved council to do the right thing.

[mattytheshrimper]

pics look pretty damn good. i hope we do what arsenal have done with their stadium and put there logo and memories around the conrete parts of the stadium so its make it feel more like home!

[Jam_Man]

Quote[/b] (C'mon you Blues @ Jan. 19 2007,12:11)]
Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Jan. 19 2007,10:53)]To say you understand why Vic Jobson gave up is amusing, bearing in mind he had no consideration for his own fans let alone the community! I dont even remember seeing a hand drawn sketch of his "plan" ?
There were plans and they looked pretty good. It was in exactly the same spot with NO retail. I might be over reacting but I've lived in this town for too long to expect are beloved council to do the right thing.
Dont remember ever seeing them.

But there you go he was just after a stadium andnothing else to benefit the community.

Theres no comparison to the way Ron Martin and Vic Jobson have approached this, lets hope the former is more successful!

[Ex-Trust Treasurer Bloke]

Not all last nights Echo was anti the stadium. There was a nice headline and letter from Mrs TTB on the letters page. http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[sussex by the sea]

Quote[/b] (South Bank Hank @ Jan. 19 2007,11:04)]Does anyone on here know how these enquiries actually work?

Surely the Councillors will have a pretty good idea of all the issues by now (and will have already made their own decisions?) or does D-Day represent a presentation of all arguments for and against, followed by a debate and then a group decision?
The Councillors will no doubt have a good idea of the issues and they will need to take into account the planning officer's report too. As such, though, they are not meant to be seen as having made up their minds until all the evidence has been presented at the Committee meeting.

So, it is more like the second part of your sentence in there will be a debate followed by a vote. While each councillor on the Committee has a vote it may well be that the votes are cast along party lines.

While it is being described as D-day, it may well turn out to be non D-day if the decision is deferred. As has been said elsewhere, though, this would not necessarily be a bad thing: we would just need to be patient until the outstanding issues are resolved satisfactorily.

[Pubey]

Quote[/b] (sussex by the sea @ Jan. 19 2007,12:46)]
Quote[/b] (South Bank Hank @ Jan. 19 2007,11:04)]Does anyone on here know how these enquiries actually work?

Surely the Councillors will have a pretty good idea of all the issues by now (and will have already made their own decisions?) or does D-Day represent a presentation of all arguments for and against, followed by a debate and then a group decision?
The Councillors will no doubt have a good idea of the issues and they will need to take into account the planning officer's report too. As such, though, they are not meant to be seen as having made up their minds until all the evidence has been presented at the Committee meeting.

So, it is more like the second part of your sentence in there will be a debate followed by a vote. While each councillor on the Committee has a vote it may well be that the votes are cast along party lines.

While it is being described as D-day, it may well turn out to be non D-day if the decision is deferred. As has been said elsewhere, though, this would not necessarily be a bad thing: we would just need to be patient until the outstanding issues are resolved satisfactorily.
so is it more of a 'when' not 'if' problem in your view? or are there fundamental problems with this project that could see us scrapping it and looking at something new?

[Jam_Man]

Quote[/b] (sussex by the sea @ Jan. 19 2007,12:46)]As has been said elsewhere, though, this would not necessarily be a bad thing: we would just need to be patient until the outstanding issues are resolved satisfactorily.
No and should the decision be deferred I hope people keep a little perspective or Wednesday will see a lot of screaming on here.

Already we have people saying we should boycott MP's and the council and we havent had a decision.

Just because the plan isnt fully agreed first time doesnt mean the council dont support it.

This is a huge project and I know just building an extension to your house often doesnt get agreed first time http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Jam_Man]

Anyone seen the new video footage of the new ground ?

Mouth watering to say the least, although it doesnt show the inside again !

Looks stunning from the outside though.

[Up the Shrimpers]

nail on the head!! the type of shops i would hope to see in the retail park at FF wouldn't be the same as the High Street, B&Q, furniture stores, Choice, Halfords etc etc... hopefully it will compete with other retail areas in essex and lakeside and provide southend with something it hasn't already got. Also the town is crying out for its own "festival leisure" style park and i hope FF will be a bit like this, with some chain pubs and restaurants which will get used 24/7

A massive B&Q is already being built over there already, it's huge about the size of a football stadium!!! So I doubt there would be another B&Q in the Stadium retail park.

With regards the stadium pics, we have been told that the gradient of the seats will be the maximum permitted (strange that the pics don't show this then?).

The closer it gets to D-Day, I'm thinking these plans could actually be refused rather than just deferred.

[RobM]

Should you wever go to Tring, you won't find any big names shops in the high street, they are all family owned (there is a Boots though but it's hardly big). I know it a little town, even Tesco had to build their smallish store out of town.

[ldnfatso]

Interesting post Shrimpergarry.

[Tommy2holes]

Im sure the new ground will look fantastic , but i have o admit i am a little dissapointed witht he pictures. The thing that baffles me is that i was sure there was a two tier main stand and although there looks to be a few seats up there thre seems to be huge gaps. Im no architect but i would like to see a finished view picture , because apart from the roof i dont think it looks that amazing. I was however impressed with the footage on the main site.

[shrimptank]

It does look very nice, and i hope that when we get it, we can also identify an end where all the vocal boys can strutt their stuff - and not end up like some of these other new places where everyone is split up..

[Blues Trader]

It looks good. I hope the touch lines will be nearer to the stands - even if it means losing a few seats.If the powers that be refer to the Ricoh there is a serious problem of people being unable to see the far end of the pitch from behind the goals.I hope that doesn't happen at the new stadium.

[mattytheshrimper]

good point about the ricoh, where i was sitting i couldn't really see what was going down the other end! i would like the stands to be steep so we can see whats going on at the other end of the pitch, similar to plymouths stadium!

[shrimperman]

So, what do we all think?

Look's spot on to me..

Let's hope it's not a pipe dream.

http://www.southendunited.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/a7/20/0,,10444~3088551,00.jpg


http://www.southendunited.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/a9/20/0,,10444~3088553,00.jpg

http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


Wheres the bloody seats? :confused:

[Up the Shrimpers]

It does look very nice, and i hope that when we get it, we can also identify an end where all the vocal boys can strutt their stuff - and not end up like some of these other new places where everyone is split up..


I'm sure the 'home' end will be the end with all the shops etc.

I wonder what the true useable capacity will be once away seats are allocated and segregation etc. We will have to make sure we can give away teams upto 15% so approx 3,300 seats for cup games.

[Jam_Man]

Im sure the new ground will look fantastic , but i have o admit i am a little dissapointed witht he pictures. The thing that baffles me is that i was sure there was a two tier main stand and although there looks to be a few seats up there thre seems to be huge gaps. .

Its already been confirmed its single tier.

The upper part will no doubt be corporate or such like.


I'm sure the 'home' end will be the end with all the shops etc.

I wonder what the true useable capacity will be once away seats are allocated and segregation etc. We will have to make sure we can give away teams upto 15% so approx 3,300 seats for cup games.


Well with 22,000 seats Im sure we could give the away fans 5,000 pretty easily. That still leaves 17,000 for home supporters.

Wonder if the away section will be behind the goal, you often see them given a corner these days so you can have home fans behind each goal.