England's World Cup 15

[Yorkshire Blue]

Vaughan (c)
Joyce
Bell
Collingwood
Pietersen
Flintoff
Dalrymple
Nixon
Plunkett
Panesar
Anderson

Reserves - Loye (doubles as reserve keeper and reserve opener for when Vaughan inevitably gets injured)
Bopara (reserve 'Collingwood' eg middle order batsman, who can bowl if needed and who is an excellent fielder)
Lewis (in case medium pace line and length is needed on the slow wickets)
Mahmood (reserve quick in case on the small grounds, taking expensive wickets turns out to be best way of keeping the runs down)

A lot people will say Strauss and Broad ahead of Bopara and Mahmood, but you need to have quality fielding in your reserves as your reserves (unless they are covering Vaughan) will see more playing time as sub fielder than as replacement and Bopara is after Collingwood and maybe Bell, England's best fielder inside the circle, and after KP, Mahmood is England's best fielder outside the circle.

[Bluesmanager]

Where the heck is Strauss!? I know he's been fairly cack as a batter in the CB Series but his fielding's great!

[Yorkshire Blue]

KP comes in for Strauss in my starting line-up. I can't find a place for him on the bench as he doesn't bowl or keep wicket, plus his form hardly warrants a place at the moment.

Strauss is an excellent catcher, but you tend to need ground fielding over slip-catching in one-day games (England will rarely employ multiple slips during the world cup).

Far better for him to take a month or two off and come back firing along with Alastair Cook and Hoggy and Harmy for the test series. With four fresh players, I really fancy England for the tests this summer.

[Bluesmanager]

Fair point - D'you think it was also partly to do with what happened to him last night/this morning at the hotel?

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Strauss for Joyce otherwise I agree entirely.

Take out Joyces 107 (when Tait dropped him off a dolly, when he had 6) and he scored 181 runs in the other 8 innings.

Strauss has now got 3 weeks (?) off, he's probably our slip fielder, as witnessed on Sunday where he dissmissed 2 of the Aussies best 4 bats, and he's no mug in the outfield.

[Yorkshire Blue]

Even if Joyce had been caught on 6, he'd have made 187 runs in 9 innings, compared to Strauss' 193 in 10 innings.

If Strauss was to make my team, I think he'd be more suited to an accumulator in the middle order rotating the strike than opening the innings. I like the idea of everyone having clearly defined roles, but Strauss just doesn't fit into any of these. I really think he'd be well served taking a breather after playing non-stop cricket for 14 months and having been on every tour since I think 2003/04, and so I would pick Joyce ahead of him.

If Vaughan fails his fitness test, Strauss gets a reprieve returning to captain the side!

[Yorkshire Blue]

Fair point - D'you think it was also partly to do with what happened to him last night/this morning at the hotel?

Not sure I follow. If you are refering to the physio being mugged, I think Strauss was in the vicinity but I wouldn't read anything into it.

[Bluesmanager]

T'was the physio, Strauss and a policeman (part of the hotel guard - When did cricketers need security?!). I was thinking that maybe Strauss didn't want to go because of security risks (he'd have to be mad, but then, he's a cricketer, you've got to be mad to play a game like cricket for most of your working life!)

[MrB]

Full squad: MP Vaughan (Yorkshire, capt), EC Joyce (Middlesex), IR Bell (Warwickshire), AJ Strauss (Middlesex), KP Pietersen (Hampshire), PD Collingwood (Durham), A Flintoff (Lancashire), RS Bopara (Essex), PA Nixon (Leicestershire, wkt), JWM Dalrymple (Middlesex), MS Panesar (Northamptonshire), J Lewis (Gloucestershire), JM Anderson (Lancashire), LE Plunkett (Durham), SI Mahmood (Lancashire).

Glad Ravi is in there, though can only see him being a bit part player.

[canveyshrimper]

I think the selectors have got this one just about right. There will obviously be concerns over the fitness of Vaughan, Lewis & Anderson, but players can be replaced if they are injured.

Very pleased to see Ravi Bopara in the squad, I agree that he may well be a bit part player, but the experience will be invaluable to him.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Glad Ravi is in there, though can only see him being a bit part player.
Very glad too - at the very least, he'll hopefully learn & grow through the tournament, which can only pay dividends for Essex.

You have to say, though - given how ruthlessly successful Essex have been at the one day game in recent seasons, it's surprising / disappointing at how few Essex players have ultimately made the squad...

:confused:

[Yorkshire Blue]

Very glad too - at the very least, he'll hopefully learn & grow through the tournament, which can only pay dividends for Essex.

You have to say, though - given how ruthlessly successful Essex have been at the one day game in recent seasons, it's surprising / disappointing at how few Essex players have ultimately made the squad...

:confused:

Thats a rather parochial view. I hope the selection of Bopara will first and foremost pay dividends for England. Hopefully first in this tournament where I think his fielding will be an asset and then future ones, where he'll hopefully develop into a better version of Collingwood. Any benefit for Essex, more the better.

Whilst I believe Alastair Cook was unfortunate to be overlooked (how England in their then state could drop Cook when he averaged 40 at a rate of over 80 a ball, I don't know), Cook wasn't really only a bit-part of that Essex one-day line-up. Had Andy Flower been English he'd have been a no-brainer and England would be second favourites. But Irani's knees have gone, and whilst he remains an effective county player he lacks the class and mobility to be a realistic candidate, and the same probably applies to Goughie although if the current bowling attack had half his self-belief we'd be a far stronger side.

Of the others ten Doeschate will be Holland's Gavin Hamilton/John Davidson; Adams narrowly missed the NZ side; Bichel has already won it once; Pettini would have enhanced the fielding but as a younger version of Mal Loye would have been found out with the bat; Middlebrook is distinctly lacking in international credentials; Phillips might with time develop into an alternative for the fortunate Dalrymple but isn't there yet.

That leaves James Foster who has been an integral part of the one-day side, standing up to the stumps to anyone slower the fast-medium and adopting the closer's role to great effect with the bat. I think Foster has been incredibly unlucky that he is a contemporary of Read. Not that Read is a better player than him, but that Read's fan club are so vocal in calling for him to replace Geraint Jones. This polarised selection into a Jones v Read debate. As Read clearly isn't up to the job, Fletcher stuck with the incumbent Jones when a change was probably needed.

[canveyshrimper]

That leaves James Foster who has been an integral part of the one-day side, standing up to the stumps to anyone slower the fast-medium and adopting the closer's role to great effect with the bat. I think Foster has been incredibly unlucky that he is a contemporary of Read. Not that Read is a better player than him, but that Read's fan club are so vocal in calling for him to replace Geraint Jones. This polarised selection into a Jones v Read debate. As Read clearly isn't up to the job, Fletcher stuck with the incumbent Jones when a change was probably needed.[/QUOTE]


Great analysis there Yorkshire in particular about the international credentials of James Foster. I have stated in this forum a number of times that IMO Foster is vastly better than the likes of Jones, Prior, Read et al. When you consider that Foster was considred good enough to earn a central contract in 2002, only for a broken arm to put the kibosh on more test appearances. He also toured Oz in 2002/3 as back up to Stewart and played one match (at Sydney I think) where he impressed most observers, he was unceremoniously dumped at the start of the next season. Stewart took the golves again, but retired soon after and left to a straight fight between Read & Jones. Since then Foster hasn't had a look in, and I was as amazed as anyone when Nixon got the gloves in the recent CB series, and now the World Cup. Fair play to Nixon for taking his chance so well, but he is hardly the future. Read does not have the confidence of the management so Foster must be back in contention this summer. Although having said that the young keep at Worcester, Davies is earning some good press.

In addition Essex have a number of very good youngsters coming through in Chpra, Westfield & Chambers, I hope the future will be bright and the county can challenge for promotion in the 4 day game, as well as keeling up their outstanding one day form.

[Matt the Shrimp]

That leaves James Foster who has been an integral part of the one-day side, standing up to the stumps to anyone slower the fast-medium and adopting the closer's role to great effect with the bat. I think Foster has been incredibly unlucky that he is a contemporary of Read. Not that Read is a better player than him, but that Read's fan club are so vocal in calling for him to replace Geraint Jones. This polarised selection into a Jones v Read debate. As Read clearly isn't up to the job, Fletcher stuck with the incumbent Jones when a change was probably needed.
Spot on. Perhaps this is your calling: to become the vocal fan club for Fozzie. I'll happily cheer-lead away. And perhaps I was a bit parochial about Ravi, but meh.

:p

But how is it that you talk such sense about cricket, and such sloblock about football...?!

:thump:

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Interesting to note that the 2 keepers on A tour to Bangladesh are Prior and Davies. Still no Fozzie !!

Unless he scores a couple of tons at the start of the season I can't see him being picked for the 1st test against the Windies, which is criminal.

[Yorkshire Blue]

Matt, every time you respond to one of my footballing posts its "I don't normally agree with you but....."

I'm still not entirely sure who should keep for England. Foster has the guts - I was very impressed by the way he responded to having an absolute mare on debut that would have broken a lesser man: away in India a pair and a dropped catch and missed stumping IIRC. In the second and third tests he really battled well and made a couple of defiant 40s to prevent collapses. I thought he was by some distance the best keeper in the 2002/03 Ashes, and again battled with the bat. My concern is that he won't make enough test hundreds, but will be good in a crisis and will stem the collapses. I'd therefore prefer him over Read and an out of form Jones.

I'd probably edge for Prior at the moment. A lesser gloveman than Foster, but a superior batsman. Its not just responding to Gilchrist for Australia, its a trend throughout test cricket: Sri Lanka have the wonderful Sangakarra, South Africa have a quality bat in Boucher, Dhoni and Akmal have been picked for their batting rather than their keeping, even Taibu is probably Zim's best bat. Foster would be my second choice. Davies isn't ready yet, but should be groomed and I can't help thinking that England missed a trick in not making Bilal Shafayat take up the gloves permanenty. Shafayat was the best player of his generation and an occasional keeper. That he hasn't made it as a batsman alone probably means he hasn't the desire, so it probably wouldn't have led to anything, but I think its a route England should have explored.

I also agree that Foster was very unfortunate - he was the man in possession after Stewart ducked out of a tour, and only lost the gloves because of a broken arm. It was ridiculous the way Read then leapfrogged him on the basis of Read being the more likely to make test match centuries. Read's army of supporters seem to forgotten that this is why their man was originally championed, although quite how anyone would think that someone of Read's technique and lack of temperament could make test match hundreds is a mystery to me.

[canveyshrimper]

Following on the debate over Read & Foster, a few years ago England A toured the WIndies and took part in their domestic tournament, reaching the final IIRC. It is interesting to remember that Read was considered number one keeper on this tour, but Foster soon displaced him with some good displays with both gloves & bat.

I would disagree about Matt Prior being possibly the best choice to play in this summers tests based on his superior batting. I don't recall this being in evidence during his tenure in the one day side. However I will accept that one day cricket is a long way from test cricket, but would also point out that Foster has a first class double hundred to his name. None of the other candidates can boast that achievement.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Matt, every time you respond to one of my footballing posts its "I don't normally agree with you but....."
Sorry, can't agree with that!

:p :finger:

As for Fozzie, I remember in particular a superb knock against the touring Aussies at Chelmsford a few years back (presumably 2001...?). Hussain (then England captain?) made a relatively low total, the Essex top order began to wilt in the face of Brett Lee's pace onslaught, and then in came Foster.

It wasn't so much the technique (relatively sound in itself), it was more the mental attitude of "I'm not scared of you lot" which lived so long in the memory. He smacked 80-odd off Lee & Warne in fairly short order - and you could see the Aussies body-language shift as Fozzie racked up the runs. There was genuine respect there.

I'm sure the Baggy Greens are as mystified as us Essex fans as to why Fozzie's Test opportunities have been so limited since then...

:confused:

[Yorkshire Blue]

I agree there are question marks over Prior's batting, but he's not an opener and he has a considerably better record in first class compared to list A.

In first class cricket Read will average about 30, Foster 35 and Prior about 40. I think Prior has scored more tons and has a far better conversion rate of 50s to 100s, which is what I'm looking for in an international keeper.

[dloman]

I am a little disappointed Mal Loye is not there, mainly due to the fact that he at least get opposition bowlers thinking about where they are going to bowl thus creating pressure on line and length.

Take him away at the top of the order KP apart really do not think there is anyone to do this, Vaughan - No ,Strauss - Definately No, Joyce - to an extent but i feel he needs an attacking player with him and then Collingwood - Great at what he does and also an excellent fielder but in my mind those powerplay over are crucial.

[Shrimper2thecore]

I think the selectors have got this one just about right. There will obviously be concerns over the fitness of Vaughan, Lewis & Anderson, but players can be replaced if they are injured.

Very pleased to see Ravi Bopara in the squad, I agree that he may well be a bit part player, but the experience will be invaluable to him.

Hopefully Ravi will get included properly, they have gone out there way to say he will not be crickets Walcott. So fingers crossed he will play

[Yorkshire Blue]

Hopefully Ravi will get included properly, they have gone out there way to say he will not be crickets Walcott. So fingers crossed he will play

If he was cricket's Walcott we'd truly be sorted.

[Matt the Shrimp]

If he was cricket's Walcott we'd truly be sorted.

:hilarious:

(PS They're related, aren't they... Clyde is Theo's great-uncle, I think...?)

[Matt the Shrimp]

They're related, aren't they... ?
Ahh, I can answer that one in the negative myself... (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/14/walc14.xml)

:o

[Bluesmanager]

"You're my Great-Uncle!"

"Oh no I'm not!"

Sorry, couldn't resist.