Hoggie Out of first test?

[number11]

Just read that is looks like Hoggard will miss the first test against India. Big setback as our attack was looking a bit green as it is.

We now have the prospect of going into the game with just a 4 man attack, consisting of Broad (0 caps), Anderson (handful of caps), Sidebottom (4 caps) and Panesar (handful of caps. This, agaist potentially the most dangerous batting line up in the world (or at least middle order).

I do fear for that attack against Dravid Tendulkar Ganguly and Laxman. For me, as much as you should never look to the past, I would strongly consider a surprise callback for Andrew Caddick. Was one of the best bowlers in the world when injury robbed him of the 2003 season and he was thereafter overlooked. He has continued to show a hunger for the game by taking regular wickets on the bowlers graveyard at Taunton and a pasting at the hands of Sachin et al will less likely affect him as it will the young bowlers....

[Museshrimper]

Anderson 16
Broad 0
Panesar 17
Sidebottom 4
Tremlett 0

37 tests between these 5. Hmm, bugger.

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

The lack of bowling depth in world cricket, let alone England cricket is worrying. Looking back at the bowling attacks of 10 years ago, international cricket possessed some exciting partnerships and wicket takers:

Ambrose
Walsh
Waqar Younis
Wasim Akram
Mushtaq Ahmed
Donald
Pollock
McGrath
Warne
Gillespie

Of these, only Pollock still plays and he doesn't quite have the pace and potency he had in the late 90's. Muralitharan is still a world class performer, but even his days in the international arena are probably numbered.

Thesedays, against mediocre attacks batsmen are filling their boots. Most of the England batsmen are averaging over 45 yet are they any better than Atherton, Hussain, Stewart etc who had lower averages yet faced far superior bowlers?

England's opening attack of Gough and Caddick in that era is certainly better than what we have at the moment. Plus, we had the likes of Cork, Fraser and Headley who had great performances at that time, just a shame that injury hampered their careers. None of these guys produced the erratic, undisciplined performances that the likes of Anderson, Plunkett, Mahmood, Harmison et al produce on a regular basis.

If Hoggard is out, not sure who can replace him, the cover is threadbare. Is there anyone in County Cricket who can bowl a steady line and length?

[Museshrimper]

The point on bowling definitely supports the argument that too much international cricket is played these days. 7 tests in this summer, and then the 20/20 world cup and then a tour after that must make it hard for fast bowlers.

[number11]

England's opening attack of Gough and Caddick in that era is certainly better than what we have at the moment. Plus, we had the likes of Cork, Fraser and Headley who had great performances at that time, just a shame that injury hampered their careers. None of these guys produced the erratic, undisciplined performances that the likes of Anderson, Plunkett, Mahmood, Harmison et al produce on a regular basis.

QUOTE]


Agreed the 90's pace attacks were far better than the current lot.....THough in the CAddick and Gough era we still saw such luminaries as Mike Smith, Simon Brown, Ed Giddins, Fat boy Ormond etc. Backed up by spinning genius's of Dawson, Croft, Min Patel etc. A lot of it now comes down to keeping the players fit and interested. In the mid 90's we seemed to play our 5 or 6 tests in the summer, 3 one dayers, finished by Sept, then tour over a few winter months...rather than this relentless schedule. I wouldnt swap the England attack of the 2005 series for the one of the generation before, its just that sadly that was the last time they were on the field together, and tomorrow looks like being the first time none of them will be present in our line up.

Also Batsmen do seem to be taking more risks nowdays, probably due to a combination of increased run rates brought in by the Aussies, Better bats, and poorer bowlers...batsmen are certainly playing their shots more which brings them more runs before that unplayable ball arrives.

Regarding county seamers, as above, there doesnt appear too much competition which is why Id throw Caddick in there...he wont come with the risk of suffering nerves like the youngsters, and a mauling at the indians hands wont set back a career like it could do to Broad or Tremlett...

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

Regarding county seamers, as above, there doesnt appear too much competition which is why Id throw Caddick in there...he wont come with the risk of suffering nerves like the youngsters, and a mauling at the indians hands wont set back a career like it could do to Broad or Tremlett...

Is Caddick bowling well this season? If so it wouldn't do any harm to recall him. I don't think he retired from International Cricket so he'd probably be up for it.

Simon Jones played a game this week! Hopefully he can get fully fit and back to somewhere near his best, he was awesome in 2005. The amount of long term injuries he's suffered in his career is unbelievable.

[number11]

Is Caddick bowling well this season? If so it wouldn't do any harm to recall him. I don't think he retired from International Cricket so he'd probably be up for it.

Simon Jones played a game this week! Hopefully he can get fully fit and back to somewhere near his best, he was awesome in 2005. The amount of long term injuries he's suffered in his career is unbelievable.


Yeah saw Caddicks name near the top of the leading wicket takers / averages on sky sports today which made me think about his recall. Think he has almost 50 wickets at about 25 which on Somersets pitch this year takes some doing.

I saw the Glamorgan game on TV....Jones bowled 2 overs....sadly I dont think he will ever return to what he was capable of...

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

I saw the Glamorgan game on TV....Jones bowled 2 overs....sadly I dont think he will ever return to what he was capable of...

He wasn't exactly steaming in was he! I think he was a bit cautious due to the slippery conditions.

Yorkshire V Sussex is on TV this evening, perhaps there will be some England potential featuring in this game. Saqlain qualifies to play for England in a year! He and Monty bowling in tandem would be an interesting prospect

[number11]

He wasn't exactly steaming in was he! I think he was a bit cautious due to the slippery conditions.

Yorkshire V Sussex is on TV this evening, perhaps there will be some England potential featuring in this game. Saqlain qualifies to play for England in a year! He and Monty bowling in tandem would be an interesting prospect

As indeed they proved to be. Both bowled quality spells in the middle of the innings to put Yorkshire out of it. Sadly, a great example of what needs to change in county cricket. Overseas players (albeit ones who now qualify as Englishmen) taking English players roles. Sussex used 5 bowlers, 3 or who (Rana, Mushy and Saqlain) have played test cricket for Pakistan. (With Goodwin opening their batting). Yardy, who has been in or around the one day and 20/20 squad was not bowled, thus missing out on experience of bowling in a pressure match.

For Yorkshire, their run chase was anchored by Younis Khan and Jacques Rudolph, with their bowling opened by Jason Gillespie, all three having played test cricket in past 12 months. Having overseas players is class, but too many clearly deprives English qualified players to exposure to pressure games.

[Museshrimper]

We've selected Tremlett and Anderson - I saw Sky Sports News 20 minutes ago and I think it was Atherton (cannot remember!) saying that he'd been getting lots of bounce in practice, and England want that against an Indian team used to play on flat, low wickets.

Broad must be gutted considering he was put in the squad first, but Tremlett is similar to Harmison, and Anderson to Hoggard, so the choices are fair enough.

[Yorkshire Blue]

Hoggy is a massive loss. Our entire Ashes winning attack, which humbled one of the greatest teams of all time, is now injured.

I thought Broad was a shoe-in, but think Tremlett and Anderson represent a better balanced attack. Broad is probably lucky to be the one to miss out. I think India (although the batting line-up isn't as good as it use to be) at Lords in July, as part of an inexperienced bowling line-up is quite a good game not to make your debut in.

[Matt the Shrimp]

Hoggy is a massive loss. Our entire Ashes winning attack, which humbled one of the greatest teams of all time, is now injured.

I thought Broad was a shoe-in, but think Tremlett and Anderson represent a better balanced attack. Broad is probably lucky to be the one to miss out. I think India (although the batting line-up isn't as good as it use to be) at Lords in July, as part of an inexperienced bowling line-up is quite a good game not to make your debut in.

Spot on. That said, I don't know how much hay-making is going to be made... the weather forecast isn't brilliant.

So long as it's sunny on Sunday, though, I won't mind...

:D

[number11]

I notice India are playing two left arm seamers, along with our one. Must be pretty rare to either have 3 left arm seamers in the same match, and in particular given both sides are playing 4 man attacks, only 3 right arm seamers playing in a test match...

[Pubey]

flying start by england... lets see if we can keep it up. im hoping strauss has a good knock

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

India's bowling has been awful so far! No pace, no accuracy, easy pickings for the England openers

[C C Csiders]

Cook is out lbw by Gin Ganguly. How often does a rubbish part-time bowler do the trick?

For me, and I know it seems strange given his record, Cook is still to convince that he is a test player. I don't know what it is about him, that makes me fell so. And I know his record speaks completely differently.

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

Cook is out lbw by Gin Ganguly. How often does a rubbish part-time bowler do the trick?

For me, and I know it seems strange given his record, Cook is still to convince that he is a test player. I don't know what it is about him, that makes me fell so. And I know his record speaks completely differently.

With the mediocre bowling in world cricket thesedays the part-time bolwers are of a similar standard to the main bowlers!

Cook struggled against a top quality bowling attack in Australia. Although aesthetically he doesn't look great, his temprament and concentration enable him to build big innings. He probably doesn't have the talent of players such as Hick and Ramprakash but his mental strengths help him succeed at Test level. That's probably why he's a much better Test batsman than ODI batsman.

[Yorkshire Blue]

Cook is out lbw by Gin Ganguly. How often does a rubbish part-time bowler do the trick?

For me, and I know it seems strange given his record, Cook is still to convince that he is a test player. I don't know what it is about him, that makes me fell so. And I know his record speaks completely differently.

Ravi Bopara is the man to do that for England once he gets in the team.

Cook to me looks like a test player for at least a dozen years and did straight from the start. Strauss on the other hand I've always felt was average but got off to a terrific start. He'll probably get a hundred today (unless Kumble gets him) because he always scores runs at Lords as it is his home ground, a lightening outfield, an awkward slope for bowlers which don't know it and a flat pitch.

Most of Strauss' runs seem to be off the edge today. Cook didn't look troubled in the slightest, but I think he has something of the Mike Atherton about him, in the way that he'll score more runs when in scratchy form than when seeing it like a beachball.

[canveyshrimper]

With the mediocre bowling in world cricket thesedays the part-time bolwers are of a similar standard to the main bowlers!

Cook struggled against a top quality bowling attack in Australia. Although aesthetically he doesn't look great, his temprament and concentration enable him to build big innings. He probably doesn't have the talent of players such as Hick and Ramprakash but his mental strengths help him succeed at Test level. That's probably why he's a much better Test batsman than ODI batsman.

I can't think of many who haven't struggled against the convict attack over the last 10/15 years or so. Players that will go down as greats, Lara, Tendulkar et al, have all had torrid times. Cook displayed plenty of grit in getting a ton at Perth, and his learnt a lot from the experience. Many others have suffered (Mark Lathwell anyone?) and have never bounced back.

Great point about Hick & Ramprakash btw.

[Napster]

Looking forward to watching some of this in Hooters!

:D

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

England all out for 298! I presumed it was a washout for the day, just turned the tv on and saw the end of a miserable collapse! Makes for a very interesting match now though...

[number11]

England all out for 298! I presumed it was a washout for the day, just turned the tv on and saw the end of a miserable collapse! Makes for a very interesting match now though...

One of the worst collapses Ive seen from an England team in years (well ok since the ashes abroad last winter, but other than that....).

From hoping the rain stays away so we can win, we now need to hope it rains to get a draw. Unless there is some juice in the pitch and we skittle them...

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

One of the worst collapses Ive seen from an England team in years (well ok since the ashes abroad last winter, but other than that....).

From hoping the rain stays away so we can win, we now need to hope it rains to get a draw. Unless there is some juice in the pitch and we skittle them...

The pitch and conditions look good for bowling.

However, our pace attack is Sidebottom, Anderson and Tremlett :cry:

With the batting line up India possess, this isn't looking good

[C C Csiders]

And Prior has already shelled one. Where's Chris Read?

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

And Prior has already shelled one. Where's Chris Read?

He scored a double hundred against us last week!

I don't think he's ever been forgiven for ducking a Chris Cairns yorker all those years ago...

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

Sidebottom gets the breakthrough, Karthick plumb lbw, 18/1

[C C Csiders]

He scored a double hundred against us last week!

I don't think he's ever been forgiven for ducking a Chris Cairns yorker all those years ago...

I know where he is, and I know where he should be, and that is behind the stumps at Lord's. Complete and utter bilge that he is left out on the assumption that he cannot bat.

[King of Berks]

Sidebottom gets the breakthrough, Karthick plumb lbw, 18/1

Must say, i'm loving the description of Sidebottom on the BBC site...


Siders looks right up for this - he's snarling like a stroppy Rottweiller. In a Sideshow Bob wig.

[lordlumpington]

And Prior has already shelled one. Where's Chris Read?

At least our wicketkeepers are honest !

How the hell did Dohni have the front to claim that catch ??

[Pubey]

At least our wicketkeepers are honest !

How the hell did Dohni have the front to claim that catch ??

yeah i know.. disgraceful. good to see we got him out nice and quick this morning... we have bowled really well

[lordlumpington]

yeah i know.. disgraceful. good to see we got him out nice and quick this morning... we have bowled really well

Yes, really good effort by Anderson & Sidebottom the roll them over this morning.

Going back to Dohni, i wouldn't mind so much if after the decision was reversed he could have accepted it instead of standing with hands on hips glaring at the umpires. That was a show of desent and he should be warned by the match referee. The ball had bounced so far in front of him he must have known it was not a clean catch.

[canveyshrimper]

India 171/5 - Ganguly & Karthik both out this morning. Just hope the rain holds off long enough for England to pick up the last 5 wickets.

[Pubey]

yep... a wicket hasn't fallen for an hr and so we need a bit of a breakthrough as clouds are looming

[SUFC_Al]

Tremlett just destroyed Laxman's stumps...229-6

[Pubey]

Tremlett just destroyed Laxman's stumps...229-6

shame he hasn't destroyed Dhoni's face...... yet

[C C Csiders]

Just 3 wickets to get and the rain is a'coming. You just know the heavens are going to open with us about to claim victory.

[SUFC_Al]

Sidebottom just got Apple Kumble lbw for 3....249-7

[Pubey]

Sidebottom just got Apple Kumble lbw for 3....249-7

lol @ Apple Krumble

[Davros]

254/8 Tremlett to Khan

[SUFC_Al]

just need to rain to stay away!

[C C Csiders]

I'll bear my ar$e in celebration if we win this ahead of the incoming monsoon.

[Pubey]

it's getting dark and so vaughy is bowling at one end!.. fingers crossed him, monty and KP can skittle the end of the tail

[C C Csiders]

Singh gone and 9 down with rain minutes away.

*loosens belt*

[Pubey]

lol.... and it looks like dhoni is hitting some shots now! what the hell is he doing!?

[C C Csiders]

Bad light has stopped play with us need 1 more wicket. That will be that, with the rain approaching.

*Re-tightens belt*

[Pubey]

they are taking tea now so 20mins... there is still a chance CCC!

[C C Csiders]

They are, apparently, going to resume at 4.40 as long as the light does not dim again, and it doesn't rain. Which begs the question if it's OK now, why don't they get back out there now?

[C C Csiders]

They are, apparently, going to resume at 4.40 as long as the light does not dim again, and it doesn't rain. Which begs the question if it's OK now, why don't they get back out there now?

Which matters little, as it's raining. :(

[Cricko2]

Bad light has stopped play with us need 1 more wicket. That will be that, with the rain approaching.

*Re-tightens belt*

They should have lights fixed to there bats like they have of those big machine gun things or why dont they just turn the floodlights on if it gets dark..Rain of course is another thing ..Roofs next ? .....:)

[Matt the Shrimp]

Match drawn. @rse.

:(

[Peter Pan]

that is shocking really! on this topic it takes me back to the england lions game v india. two fridays ago. sreesanth their number eleven bat and opening bowler. what a funny man. after consuming 14 pints i was shouting for him to do the robot and low and behold it worked after shouting on the second time! Brilliant, what an effort, an indian test player doing the robot. success.

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

They are, apparently, going to resume at 4.40 as long as the light does not dim again, and it doesn't rain. Which begs the question if it's OK now, why don't they get back out there now?

Thankfully I'm now back in the warmth after a very cold day at Lord's and Dagenham! The above mentioned passage of play was frustrating - at 4pm they announced play would resume 40 minutes later! The weather was fine at 4pm , they could've fitted in 15-20 minutes play from 4:05 onwards. However, the rain fell and it was dark again by 4:30 so that was it for the day.

I feel cricket authorities needs to speed up the process of play sometimes. Overs should be bowled quicker, covers should be removed quicker after breaks (ie. umpires spending more time in the middle assessing the conditions and groundstaff taking the covers off as soon as the umpires give the nod) and play should be allowed in fading light if spinners are bowling. Such measures could give punters better value for money and more results rather than frustrating draws.