Financial Crisis At Southend

[TMWLT]

lets consider the facts we are £4.5m in debt, crowds are down 25% percent
down on last season meaning come the end of the season meaning a loss of £1m revenue, plus loss of tv revenue. this season is over, one assumes the crowds will continue to plummet next season. i said before that its like a triangle the top was man utd and now we are coming down the other side fast
back to where though thats the question we are only 12 points off the bottom 4!!!

[Jay_Shrimper]

Nothing like a bit of optimism is there?

[shrimpled]

We are 4 points off the play offs though. We have recently recieved £1.75m through player sales. Our attendances have held up well. We were willing to offer Leon 4-5k a week, and have given AB a 5 year deal. This would indicate to me that the financial crisis you predict is not on the horizon.

[duncan bulgaria]

We are 4 points off the play offs though. We have recently recieved £1.75m through player sales. Our attendances have held up well. We were willing to offer Leon 4-5k a week, and have given AB a 5 year deal. This would indicate to me that the financial crisis you predict is not on the horizon.



I can't quite believe that we are that close to the play offs still , the thing about this league is everyone beats each other and there are not many bankers .

The scary thing is that we have gone from 2nd to 12 th in under 5 weeks and i still think there are teams with games in hand on us that could go above us , and also if Luton hadn't been deducted 10 points i think we would be in 13th now :(

[biffo]

I think the concerns deserve a bit more than that jay. Whilst at the moment we are just about comfortably above the danger area, our present form is worrying and without a sudden upturn in form/luck we could be flirting with the wrong end of the table in a couple of months. Just like winning is habit forming.....not winning is just as addictive.

[Flinty]

I can't quite believe that we are that close to the play offs still , the thing about this league is everyone beats each other and there are not many bankers .

The scary thing is that we have gone from 2nd to 12 th in under 5 weeks and i still think there are teams with games in hand on us that could go above us , and also if Luton hadn't been deducted 10 points i think we would be in 13th now :(

just looked at that same thing myself...another couple of defeats and we would indeed be looking over our shoulder...

[BrettieAngell]

lets consider the facts we are £4.5m in debt, crowds are down 25% percent
down on last season meaning come the end of the season meaning a loss of £1m revenue, plus loss of tv revenue. this season is over, one assumes the crowds will continue to plummet next season. i said before that its like a triangle the top was man utd and now we are coming down the other side fast
back to where though thats the question we are only 12 points off the bottom 4!!!

Damn these League One teams for not bringing 1,500 fans every week!

[mattytheshrimper]

we may have recieved money from selling players but don't seem to be using it. asif ron thought he could sell freddy and not get a replacement in. come on!

[Tin Bath]

Well Saturday could be very important, win against Daggers could provide a small welcome windfall and a bit of cash to spend on decent players

[GNH]

Well Saturday could be very important, win against Daggers could provide a small welcome windfall and a bit of cash to spend on decent players

Have you been drinking? Only if we draw Arsenal away and even then we may get enough to spend on Matt Harrold's **** brother

[sufcintheprem]

lets consider the facts we are £4.5m in debt, crowds are down 25% percent
down on last season meaning come the end of the season meaning a loss of £1m revenue, plus loss of tv revenue. this season is over, one assumes the crowds will continue to plummet next season. i said before that its like a triangle the top was man utd and now we are coming down the other side fast
back to where though thats the question we are only 12 points off the bottom 4!!!

Hang on, you're not comparing like with like. Unless you are privvy to such information, I suspect you're basing our debt figure on the last reports available which at a stab I guess are a year and a half old. Yet you use the current crowd figures compared with the crowds from the missing year and a half.

Of course attendances are down as we are playing a poorer standard of football and the opposition are bringing down a fraction of the fans. However, from my understanding of the situation, we are still hitting attendance levels big enough to sustain a League One team.

I wonder if Swansea are panicking because they're only 21 points off the bottom 4! Our form is worrying and the performance today was really disappointing. I'm the first to admit that I've not been as much as I'd have liked recently and this was the poorest I've seen us play this season. However, we were in a good position and as long as we find a way to better utilise our good players I still expect us to finish exactly where I said we were going to at the beginning of the season - upper midtable pushing playoffs.

[BlueJ]

Although I have no evidence to back this up, but seems like Uncle Ron is so tied up with the club that if neccessary he'll use his company's assets to prop up the club if needs be at least until the new stadium is built and he's raking it back in from the sale of the commerical units that are going to be part of the development.

[ldnfatso]

lets consider the facts we are £4.5m in debt, crowds are down 25% percent
down on last season meaning come the end of the season meaning a loss of £1m revenue, plus loss of tv revenue. this season is over, one assumes the crowds will continue to plummet next season. i said before that its like a triangle the top was man utd and now we are coming down the other side fast
back to where though thats the question we are only 12 points off the bottom 4!!!

and?

Would you prefer us in the position we were in when Tilly took over??

As you seem to have all the complaints, how would you turn it around for us? Perhaps you have the answers to share with us all.

[thechampionship_isupsidedown]

"...we have gone from 2nd to 12 th in under 5 weeks..."

Obviously optimism doesnt seem to be the order of the day, but have we considered that if we've gone down 10 spots in 5 weeks we can also go up 10 spots in 5 weeks, which means we could still be vying for a playoff spot by the end of the season once this bad run comes to an end. It's always been the same in the Tilson era; we have bad runs and good runs, we never seem to have prolonged periods of indifference. It's all or nothing. Let's hope we start to pick up again soon and have a good end to the season, eh??!!!

[Firestorm]

2 seasons ago we had just got promoted after languishing near the foot of the basement for several years and our gates were averaging 5,500 for the previous season. We were 4.5M in debt. We then had a fluke season, we went up again, gates increased to 7,500 (presumable the wage bill had already gone up a bit due to the higher league as we did not make much of a profit)
This left us with a very low ceiling on our income (attendances max 11k) for a season in the 2nd tir of English football. We spent a bit in an attempt to stay up without crippling ourselves (as did Col U who got lucky with Cureton and Iwelemo preforming whilst Freddy did not quite manage it on his own) and we dropped
Plans to develop the stadium and take the club forward are at the final stage, one nod from the doe and the door to potential investors will start to open. We have contingency funds in hand should there be any delay as we have not spent all the transfer windfalls of the summer yet, which will be handy as gates have dropped due to the relegation, yet I don't suppose wages have gone down at the same rate.
People said two years ago that we needed to consolidate in league 2 and that promotion would not be a good thing, they were roundly mocked, yet whilst the one season was good, it has set the steady strengthening of the club back a bit.
Stay in this Division, get the new stadium complex started and the revenue streams in place then start to build . If we are lying in 12th place in League 2 , Millions in debt and playing infront of 7000 in a creaky old stadium in 5 years time then I think we have the right to have a real moan.

[OldBlueLady]

Agreed Firestorm. Optimism is a wonderful thing but I think in our case, a touch of realism would be more appropriate. We'd had a fantastic two seasons gaining successive promotions, it was obvious we would struggle in the Championship, and unsurprisingly we were relegated. This season we should not be looking for the bounce back but to have a comfortable mid table finish, and getting the team settled ready for a proper push next year. There's a lot of work to do, who would honestly want us to go up again this year and repeat our performance? With what we've got at our disposal it would be a red hot certainty that we'd be straight back down.

Who knows, after an ordinary year we might lose some of those "supporters" who were barracking the players unnecessarily yesterday, you know, the fairweather ones who've only been coming since we started to do well.

[irenbird]

I am new to the board but have been supporting this team of ours since the days of Roy Hollis and Sam McCrory and all teams, whoever they are have ups and downs. Certainly we are no different! Just inspect my thinning grey hair to confirm this. We are on a downer now but if you are patient, things WILL pick up and we will once again be proud of this fantastic club of ours. Honestly.

[Slipperduke]

I am new to the board but have been supporting this team of ours since the days of Roy Hollis and Sam McCrory and all teams, whoever they are have ups and downs. Certainly we are no different! Just inspect my thinning grey hair to confirm this. We are on a downer now but if you are patient, things WILL pick up and we will once again be proud of this fantastic club of ours. Honestly.

Well said that man. Take the top goalscorer out of any team and they'll take time to readjust. I said at the beginning of the season that I'd happily accept mid-table. I remember what happened last time we dropped out of the second flight.

Can everyone promise to take a moment before posting to recite the mantra, "I am not a Tottenham fan, I am not a Tottenham fan"?

Honestly, if we were in the relegation zone then this might be justified, but for goodness sake, we've just had a bit of a sticky period.

[BlueJ]

Agreed Firestorm. Optimism is a wonderful thing but I think in our case, a touch of realism would be more appropriate. We'd had a fantastic two seasons gaining successive promotions, it was obvious we would struggle in the Championship, and unsurprisingly we were relegated. This season we should not be looking for the bounce back but to have a comfortable mid table finish, and getting the team settled ready for a proper push next year. There's a lot of work to do, who would honestly want us to go up again this year and repeat our performance? With what we've got at our disposal it would be a red hot certainty that we'd be straight back down.

Who knows, after an ordinary year we might lose some of those "supporters" who were barracking the players unnecessarily yesterday, you know, the fairweather ones who've only been coming since we started to do well.


I agree with everything you've said, but are we realstically ever going to sell out at Fossetts Farm or average a much higher crowd than we are at Roots Hall?!

[Southend_Lady]

This is probably the most ridiculous thread I have seen for a long time. financial ruin? Are you for real?! We are in a far more comfortable situtation than we were 3 or 4 years ago. I have to agree with some that a 22,000 seater ground may be taking a slight gamble, however, without such facilities we are never going to be able to take this club forward.

I would be extremely happy with a mid table finish this year and quite frankly I think its all we are capable of this season, but I always thought it would be important to consolidate and settle this season. If we go up this season then that means 4 consecutive league changes. L2, to L1, to CCC, to L1 to CCC. Teams need time to settle, not be chopping and changing their league status on a yearly basis. This season we need to stay in this league, build a strong squad and settle. Hopefully get a YES for the new ground then be playing L1 football next year with the aim of promotion to CCC as we go to the new ground.

[Firestorm]

Personally I feel that the attendances at the new stadium will depend to an extent on timing. If we are going to start 09-10 season at FF after another mid table league 1 season , then the close season is the time to start investing a bit in the team. The thought of a new stadium should boost the gates (as does a new season) , add this to a couple of tasty signings and the enthusiasm will be high. Get that right and we should have good gates for the early games. If the investment pays off and the team performs then the gates should not drop and may well increase (like they did towards the end of our promotion seasons).
The difficulty will be in maintaining 7-8k gates for the next 18 months, we will need an injection of the promised capital once the go ahead is given. a push back to the play off places should maintain things for next year. If we get a bit lucky and have a playoff season next year we could start at FF with 10-12k in league 1

[TMWLT]

so if you dont think we have financial problems, thats fine, if you want to go away and live in cloud cuckoo land thats fine. But I repeat the debt situation is not going away, based on last years figures the debt has increased??

now of course when the agm this year takes place, I am expecting to see that greatly reduced after all 3 major cup ties and the sale of eastwood

but we shall see

[Mr. Benedict]

so if you dont think we have financial problems, thats fine, if you want to go away and live in cloud cuckoo land thats fine. But I repeat the debt situation is not going away, based on last years figures the debt has increased??

now of course when the agm this year takes place, I am expecting to see that greatly reduced after all 3 major cup ties and the sale of eastwood

but we shall see

Of course we have financial difficulties - if we didn't we would not be in debt. But your comparisons are way off and you are being overly hysterical about it to boot.

[Southminster_Shrimper]

There probably arent too many clubs that are not in debt outside the prem (where all the money is).

Debt is not a problem as long as its manageable. Mortgage anyone?

[Firestorm]

so if you dont think we have financial problems, thats fine, if you want to go away and live in cloud cuckoo land thats fine. But I repeat the debt situation is not going away, based on last years figures the debt has increased??

now of course when the agm this year takes place, I am expecting to see that greatly reduced after all 3 major cup ties and the sale of eastwood

but we shall see

And the increased gates in the Championship.....

less of course the increased wages, signings of Clarke, Foran, Paynter, Francis, Hammell, JCR (not just the transfer fee but any signing on fee) and whatever Ricketts bled out of us

No doubt income will have increased but Expenditure will have increased as well, also the Net transfer dealings may not be as high as we all think (my guess 250k nett profit for transfers )

Just checked the accounts for the last few years
2002-2003 Transfer loss 2128
2003-2004 Transfer Loss 17,557
2004-2005 Transfer Loss 48,134
2005-2006 Transfer Loss 124,183

It will all be clear come next May

[Up the Shrimpers]

The difficulty will be in maintaining 7-8k gates for the next 18 months, we will need an injection of the promised capital once the go ahead is given. a push back to the play off places should maintain things for next year. If we get a bit lucky and have a playoff season next year we could start at FF with 10-12k in league 1

I don't think maintaining the 7-8k gates will be a problem over the next 18 months. If we end up mid-table this season, then I would say most Season Ticket holders would renew next season, especially if the new stadium gets started (as existing season ticket holders will get priority choice at the new ground).

But I have no idea on how many fans we would get at the new ground. To have average crowds of 12k we would need 9k plus season ticket holders. As you say alot will depend on where we are, what stage of the season the new ground opens and also price of tickets.

If the ground gets the go-ahead (in a few weeks time?) then building work would have to start straight away for it to be ready for the start of 2009/10 season. A few months delay and we would be looking at mid-season 2009/10 or possibly not until the start 2010/11 season.

[OldBlueLady]

I don't think maintaining the 7-8k gates will be a problem over the next 18 months. If we end up mid-table this season, then I would say most Season Ticket holders would renew next season, especially if the new stadium gets started (as existing season ticket holders will get priority choice at the new ground).



I know of several people sitting in the family enclosure who bought season tickets following promotion from league 2 who've quite openly said that if we don't get promoted this year then they won't renew.

I wonder how many of these newer supporters are the ones getting impatient with and shouting abuse at the team/Tilly/RM?

[Southminster_Shrimper]

I know of several people sitting in the family enclosure who bought season tickets following promotion from league 2 who've quite openly said that if we don't get promoted this year then they won't renew.

I wonder how many of these newer supporters are the ones getting impatient with and shouting abuse at the team/Tilly/RM?

I have only had my seaso's for two seasons now. I certainly dont boo or hurl abuse at the players. I guess some people cant just bite their tongue and keep it quiet for the 90 and then talk about it on the way out which is how most seem to.

Maybe some need to think about what they are trying to achieve by their actions.

[Southend_Lady]

I know of several people sitting in the family enclosure who bought season tickets following promotion from league 2 who've quite openly said that if we don't get promoted this year then they won't renew.
I wonder how many of these newer supporters are the ones getting impatient with and shouting abuse at the team/Tilly/RM?

To be honest Id be far happier if all fans with that attitude didnt bother at all. Lets face it, if you base your season ticket renewal on success then you are not the kind of fan that SUFC needs.
Personally I have a ST for the convenience factor of not having to buy a ticket every single match. As well as the fact I want to attend all games obviously (as well as many away as poss). I would never decide whether to get a ST though due to the success of the club from one year to the next. Ridiculous how fickle some fans are.

[Up the Shrimpers]

To be honest Id be far happier if all fans with that attitude didnt bother at all. Lets face it, if you base your season ticket renewal on success then you are not the kind of fan that SUFC needs.
Personally I have a ST for the convenience factor of not having to buy a ticket every single match. As well as the fact I want to attend all games obviously (as well as many away as poss). I would never decide whether to get a ST though due to the success of the club from one year to the next. Ridiculous how fickle some fans are.

We have already lost 1,000+ season ticket holders from last season, I would imagine the majority decided not to renew because of relegation. I bet a fair few of these people still go though.

We probably have a higher season ticket ratio to pay on the day people than most clubs in this division (5,000 season ticket holders compared to 2,000 normal tickets). One of the reasons for that is the poor view at Roots Hall. Going back a few years you could still get a decent seat right up to the day of the match. It all changed with the promotions & people wanted to guarantee that they would get in the ground, didn't have to queue for tickets and get a decent view.

When/If we move to the new ground then every single seat will have a clear view of the pitch and the need for a season ticket could actually be reduced. We could end up with a more even split between Season Ticket holders & the pay on the day unloyal, fickle, fairweathers, moaners:)

[stereoscene]

To be honest Id be far happier if all fans with that attitude didnt bother at all. Lets face it, if you base your season ticket renewal on success then you are not the kind of fan that SUFC needs.
Personally I have a ST for the convenience factor of not having to buy a ticket every single match. As well as the fact I want to attend all games obviously (as well as many away as poss). I would never decide whether to get a ST though due to the success of the club from one year to the next. Ridiculous how fickle some fans are.

is that you babii g?;)

[londonblue]

lets consider the facts we are £4.5m in debt, crowds are down 25% percent
down on last season meaning come the end of the season meaning a loss of £1m revenue, plus loss of tv revenue. this season is over, one assumes the crowds will continue to plummet next season. i said before that its like a triangle the top was man utd and now we are coming down the other side fast
back to where though thats the question we are only 12 points off the bottom 4!!!

I seem to remember you making similar erroneous predictions about crowds before.

SZ (http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27509&highlight=TMWLT)

At least we all know you have a poor track record at this kind of thing and can therefore ignore you from now on.

[Firestorm]

Last years average attendance 10024
this years 7861

To get to TMWLT's prediction in the above thread of 34% drop we will need to average 5,257 for the remaining 11 home games (seasons average 6615)

Whilst I don't think it is likely , I don't think it wildly inaccurate enough to be called an erroneous prediction yet

[londonblue]

Last years average attendance 10024
this years 7861

To get to TMWLT's prediction in the above thread of 34% drop we will need to average 5,257 for the remaining 11 home games (seasons average 6615)

Whilst I don't think it is likely , I don't think it wildly inaccurate enough to be called an erroneous prediction yet

Wrong = erroneous.

More to the point, every prediction has been wrong. This is the only one I could find in short time.

[TMWLT]

by all means take your time to go through my posts, if you could find out the ones that are wrong, and let me know, I dont have the time to do, i could have sworn that i mentioned posters, but still it brightens my day considerably to know that people have worked out what we need to do to achieve the average crowd to avoid my totals

[Firestorm]

Wrong = erroneous.

More to the point, every prediction has been wrong. This is the only one I could find in short time.


As I said it is not so wildly inaccurate to be called wrong yet...
As things currently stand it is unlikely.

[Firestorm]

by all means take your time to go through my posts, if you could find out the ones that are wrong, and let me know, I dont have the time to do, i could have sworn that i mentioned posters, but still it brightens my day considerably to know that people have worked out what we need to do to achieve the average crowd to avoid my totals

I would suggest you spent more time reading peoples posts as this..

To get to TMWLT's prediction in the above thread of 34% drop we will need to average 5,257 for the remaining 11 home games (seasons average 6615)..quite clearly states would be needed to achieve your totals , not avoid them.

Initially I felt that the 34% figure was not a million miles out , but decided to sepend a minute or so confirming things before committing them to type.
I am glad it has brightened your day to know that people like to check their facts before expressing them in writing, perhaps if more people on internet forums did that and avoided spouting inaccurate and sometimes incorrect facts then it may brighten a few more days.

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

TBH in over 40 years as a fan this is probably the least worried I've been about the club financially and its long term future. I really believe Ron Martin's custodianship has been financially prudent. If the debt is not coming down at least it's stable and this can't be bad for any club in the present day and age. Hopefully we'll soon have good news about the ground.

PS Ray Parlour - you know what I'm talking about

[Southend_Lady]

is that you babii g?;)

I think thats quite definately the worst insult I have had in my life! Notice I didnt have a mass of swearing in my post and was quite to the point. There was neither any stories about horses or falling into a ditch and laughing about it. Thats the ones you have to watch for.....

[TMWLT]

Listen if I said it snowed tomoorrow you heard it hear first. in terms of ray parlour dont rule it out, he is personal friends with stan tilson, who is the great grandfather of steve

[TMWLT]

can i ask you to do some maths homework that i am struggling on fool

[Southend United 4eva]

I'm sorry if I don't get too worried just yet.

In my view a Financial Crisis is having just an hour to pay off the taxman, as happened a few seasons back, or being in Swindon's position.

[OldBlueLady]

We're a long way off being in Swindon or Luton's position fortunately, largely down to Ron Martin's astuteness and forward planning. Come on, in terms of our recent history we're almost millionaires!

[Firestorm]

can i ask you to do some maths homework that i am struggling on fool

Feel free.
It takes courage to ask for help as it is often felt as an admission of failure, well done.

[Beefy]

When/If we move to the new ground then every single seat will have a clear view of the pitch and the need for a season ticket could actually be reduced. We could end up with a more even split between Season Ticket holders & the pay on the day unloyal, fickle, fairweathers, moaners:)

Other than price (if you were to go to every game) I'm not sure there'd be any real advantage to getting a season ticket right away at FF. It'll probably need a whole season before people have found the view and the atmosphere that they like the best and, as you said, there'll be no shortage of empty seats.

[Jam_Man]

The one thing not mentioned regarding attendances and finances is that at Fossetts the attendances arent going to be the be all and end all of how well we are doing.

A major part of the plan is for the retail park and hotel to create revenue we currently dont get.

Attendances from a financial side will be less critical.

With a bit of PR and the excitement of a new crowd I expect, even if we are a mid table league one side that we will get 12,000 in there.

[sufcintheprem]

The one thing not mentioned regarding attendances and finances is that at Fossetts the attendances arent going to be the be all and end all of how well we are doing.

A major part of the plan is for the retail park and hotel to create revenue we currently dont get.

Attendances from a financial side will be less critical.

With a bit of PR and the excitement of a new crowd I expect, even if we are a mid table league one side that we will get 12,000 in there.

The cost of running matchdays will also decrease quite considerably from what I've heard and this will reduce our break-even attendance quite considerably or free up more money for wages.

I've not heard a figure since before last season but I would guess our break even is probably between 7,000 and 7500 at the moment pending signings.

[Up the Shrimpers]

With a bit of PR and the excitement of a new crowd I expect, even if we are a mid table league one side that we will get 12,000 in there.

I would be amazed if we could get 12,000 average crowds for mid-table League 1. Would probably be nearer the 10,000 mark which would still be excellent. Hopefully we will find out about the ground soon.

[Interpol Shrimper]

With a bit of PR and the excitement of a new crowd I expect, even if we are a mid table league one side that we will get 12,000 in there.

I thought that until I went to Donny on Saturday. A crowd of 7,500 when they're on the up shows how difficult it can be to galvanise & keep new support even with quality facilities.

[Jam_Man]

What was Doncasters gates like before the new ground ?

[Southminster_Shrimper]

Could the Blue Belles wear less SUFC merchandise to save the club money? :p

[Up the Shrimpers]

I thought that until I went to Donny on Saturday. A crowd of 7,500 when they're on the up shows how difficult it can be to galvanise & keep new support even with quality facilities.

Doncaster must be a bit dissapointed with their crowds at the new stadium. In 2005/6 their last full season at Belle Vue the average crowd was 6,139 their average this season is only 6,703. So an increase of only 564.

Also their average crowd last season was 7,725 so they are 1,000 down on that already.

Which is why I think a 10,000 average at our new ground would be the most we could expect for League 1 mid-table.

[Mr. Benedict]

What was Doncasters gates like before the new ground ?
Oops. Someone beat me to this!

[Interpol Shrimper]

What was Doncasters gates like before the new ground ?

Well, the game in 05/06 had an attendance of just under 6,000 so they've only added 1,500 onto that (I am also guessing we took more away there on Saturday as there was the new stadium factor)!

[SUFC_Al]

Could the Blue Belles wear less SUFC merchandise to save the club money? :p

great money-saving initiative there, Jon.

[Up the Shrimpers]

What was Doncasters gates like before the new ground ?

2003/4 6,938
2004/5 6,886
2005/6 6,139
2006/7 6,134 (11 games)
2006/7 9,183 (12 games @ new ground)
2006/7 7,725 (combined old & new)
2007/8 6,703

[Kenny]

2003/4 6,938
2004/5 6,886
2005/6 6,139
2006/7 6,134 (11 games)
2006/7 9,183 (12 games @ new ground)
2007/8 7,725
2008/9 6,703

How have you got a figure for next season?

[Up the Shrimpers]

How have you got a figure for next season? magic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

will edit it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2003/4 6,938
2004/5 6,886
2005/6 6,139
2006/7 6,134 (11 games)
2006/7 9,183 (12 games @ new ground)
2006/7 7,725 (combined old & new)
2007/8 6,703

There thats better, right I have had enough of posting on DoncasterZone see you all back on ShrimperZone.

[Jam_Man]

Yep those figures arent inspiring are they.

Would be interesting to see how Swansea and other clubs have been affected. I read in some article how clubs can expect a 40% increase due to a new ground so hopefully that will bear out.

If we can take 20,000 to the Millenium Stadium then we can get 12,000 in Fossetts.

Whether we can sustain it is another matter and from the negativity around the ground recently I wouldnt rule out us struggling but the ground being agreed could be the lift we need.

[Interpol Shrimper]

If we can take 20,000 to the Millenium Stadium then we can get 12,000 in Fossetts.

Don't forget though the extended effect of people taking family/friends who don't usually go to Southend games as part of the 20,000 who were there in March '04.

For example with me (only member of my family who can really be stated as going more than 5 times a season & I obviously would go a lot more if I wasn't exiled) that day, there were another 5 people (Mrs, Mum & Dad and 2 friends).

[Up the Shrimpers]

Don't forget though the extended effect of people taking family/friends who don't usually go to Southend games as part of the 20,000 who were there in March '04.

For example with me (only member of my family who can really be stated as going more than 5 times a season & I obviously would go a lot more if I wasn't exiled) that day, there were another 5 people (Mrs, Mum & Dad and 2 friends).

I wonder how many of our current fans did not go to the first LDV game. I know a few that didn't. After all it was nearly 4 years ago now.

[Interpol Shrimper]

I wonder how many of our current fans did not go to the first LDV game. I know a few that didn't. After all it was nearly 4 years ago now.

Probably a fair few considering the current lack of appreciation that the past 3 or 4 years has been arguably one of the most successful in the clubs history and that the current dip in form is more like regular service has now been resumed! :p

[Southminster_Shrimper]

I wonder how many of our current fans did not go to the first LDV game. I know a few that didn't.

I didnt.....is that wrong then?

Only because circumstances dictated otherwise but there are some of us who wont jump ship just because its taking on a bit of water. I am sure there are others who are "new" that are the same aswell.

And not everyone gives up their seaso and then doesnt attend at all.

Just to give a bit of balance there....:D

[Jam_Man]

I didnt.....is that wrong then?

Only because circumstances dictated otherwise but there are some of us who wont jump ship just because its taking on a bit of water. I am sure there are others who are "new" that are the same aswell.

And not everyone gives up their seaso and then doesnt attend at all.

Just to give a bit of balance there....:D

Me neither.

Didnt go to either LDV nor the play off final.

We have potential to have decent crowds and it will be interesting to see if we can maintain decent levels if we do have mid table mediocre seasons.

[Up the Shrimpers]

I didnt.....is that wrong then?

Only because circumstances dictated otherwise but there are some of us who wont jump ship just because its taking on a bit of water. I am sure there are others who are "new" that are the same aswell.

And not everyone gives up their seaso and then doesnt attend at all.

Just to give a bit of balance there....:D

No nothing wrong. Just interested to see how many new fans we have gained rather than having a go at anyone.

After the first LDV game our average crowd shot up by more than 500 people. By the 2nd LDV our crowds were already rising & it's hard to judge if that gained us any extra fans.

[Southminster_Shrimper]

No nothing wrong. Just interested to see how many new fans we have gained rather than having a go at anyone.

After the first LDV game our average crowd shot up by more than 500 people. By the 2nd LDV our crowds were already rising & it's hard to judge if that gained us any extra fans.

Success will always bring in more people. The problem is trying to hang on to em when things arent going too well. I should imagine a few more will disappear next season should promotion not be achieved. However, if the playoffs are achieved the loss of numbers, I would have thought would be less than a mere mid table finish with a whimper.

Its good that there is a family section because if youngsters can be attracted to the club then it bodes well for crowds in the future. Hopefully, those disillusioned with the premsh*te will then start following their local team.

However, the best attraction to a club is for it to do well.