Lessons from Argentina

[Stig Purple]

As you may have seen in the main forum, I have been raising money for charity by watching football matches in the grounds of Argentina (see www.justgiving.com/davidoldbury (http://www.justgiving.com/davidoldbury))

The atmosphere at games here is amazing so there may be some tips that Blue Voice could try. However, many of the things that make the atmosphere so special (though admittedly downright dangerous at times) in Argentina would just not be permitted in Britain:


Flares
Smoke
Fireworks
A whole standful of people jumping up and down in unison throughout the match (not just during allowable 'moments of high drama')


On the last point perhaps Blue Voice could try the synchronised jumping thing after goals or at away matches with terraces. It really is an impressive sight, especially when alternating rows move sideways in opposite directions. Here in Argentina there is also a real sense of ceremony when the flag bearers enter the stands, sometimes after the match has started! It is coordinated theatre.

The key element though is making a noise (be it singing, drumming or playing trumpets) throughout the whole match regardless of how the match is going,which is exactly what I think Blue Voice is all about.

[Smiffy]

As you may have seen in the main forum, I have been raising money for charity by watching football matches in the grounds of Argentina (see www.justgiving.com/davidoldbury (http://www.justgiving.com/davidoldbury))

The atmosphere at games here is amazing so there may be some tips that Blue Voice could try. However, many of the things that make the atmosphere so special (though admittedly downright dangerous at times) in Argentina would just not be permitted in Britain:

Flares
Smoke
Fireworks
A whole standful of people jumping up and down in unison throughout the match (not just during allowable 'moments of high drama')
On the last point perhaps Blue Voice could try the synchronised jumping thing after goals or at away matches with terraces. It really is an impressive sight, especially when alternating rows move sideways in opposite directions. Here in Argentina there is also a real sense of ceremony when the flag bearers enter the stands, sometimes after the match has started! It is coordinated theatre.

The key element though is making a noise (be it singing, drumming or playing trumpets) throughout the whole match regardless of how the match is going,which is exactly what I think Blue Voice is all about.


I bet it is a fantastic sight mate...

If we can create just a slither of the atmosphere they generate in South America, we'd of done well....

Unfortunately as you know our authorities aren't as relaxed, when it comes to some of the above you mentioned. So we will have to do our best without these added enhancements...

When we have a dedicated singing section, be it at RH or FF, we will certainly be looking at implementing more exciting choreography amongst the masses. The jumping up & down etc will certainly be one of them!..

Its all about injecting more colour, noise and fun into everyones matchday and when FF gets agreed, that's when we can really swing into action!..

In the meantime, we will do all we can to improve the atmosphere at RH, the first step is to re-claim the North Bank...

Hope you have some cracking photo's mate, would love to see them..

;)

[leeblue]

different cultures etc etc, can you imagine the reaction to a flare in the west stand

[fredheim_holm]

The jumping up and down is indeed fantastic, as long as you have a sturdy stand. I'd love to jump up and down in unison in the north bank!

[Uncle Leo]

Went to La Bombanera to see Boca Juniors last Sunday and it was one of the most enjoyable footballing experiences of my life. Off to watch River Plate this afternoon - they play San Lorenzo - looking forward to more of the same :)

[Stig Purple]

Went to La Bombanera to see Boca Juniors last Sunday and it was one of the most enjoyable footballing experiences of my life. Off to watch River Plate this afternoon - they play San Lorenzo - looking forward to more of the same :)

Yes, it's a real buzz isn't it!

I'm in Buenos Aires too. How did you get hold of tickets? Did you go through an agency?

I arrived from Cordoba yesterday and went to the Arsenal v Olimpo game. It was my 20th game here and 19th ground. I've been to 16 out of the 17 Primera Division grounds. Couldn't get to an Olimpo match in Bahia Blanca. Alas, I'm flying home later today otherwise we could have met up for some other footie matches. How long are you in Argentina?

If you need any info on other grounds then let me know. FYI I had great problems getting a taxi back from a match in San Lorenzo. It's a very dodgy area. Taxis don't stop there because they're afraid of getting robbed.

[Stig Purple]

different cultures etc etc, can you imagine the reaction to a flare in the west stand

Flares etc are offically banned in Argentina but that doesn't seem to make much diference, fans still manage to get them in the grounds. I saw a nasty incident in Sante Fe where flares were dropped from the top tier of a stand onto people below. I assume it was accidental but then I saw the same thing happen in the same area a few minutes later.

There appears to be a completely different attitude to personal safety and that of others. At many of the matches fans have been standing on top of walls at the back of terraces with a a sheer drop onto concrete below. Mad. Yep, you're right, this just wouldn't happen in the UK.

[Stig Purple]

Hope you have some cracking photo's mate, would love to see them..
;)

Yes, have got plenty of photos and videos. When I get home I'll get them uploaded somewhere for general viewing.

[Uncle Leo]

Yes, it's a real buzz isn't it!

I'm in Buenos Aires too. How did you get hold of tickets? Did you go through an agency?

I arrived from Cordoba yesterday and went to the Arsenal v Olimpo game. It was my 20th game here and 19th ground. I've been to 16 out of the 17 Primera Division grounds. Couldn't get to an Olimpo match in Bahia Blanca. Alas, I'm flying home later today otherwise we could have met up for some other footie matches. How long are you in Argentina?

If you need any info on other grounds then let me know. FYI I had great problems getting a taxi back from a match in San Lorenzo. It's a very dodgy area. Taxis don't stop there because they're afraid of getting robbed.

Shame we missed each other, I arrived back home earlier today :o

Got tickets for Boca at the ground on the day, although our hotel was offering a package too. As for River, we were lucky enough to be taken by a friend and as such had seats right on the half way line. In terms of atmosphere, Boca beats River in to a cocked hat - and I'm loving the blue and yeeeeellow colours too! Will look to get some pics up in the next day or so.

[Babii G]

the jumping thing sounds like a good idea! especially at away games, try it at the next away game

[Southminster_Shrimper]

the jumping thing sounds like a good idea! especially at away games, try it at the next away game

yes Steph....and at SUFC Ladies home games the same applies....so join in, dont be shy lol

[Uncle Leo]

Now that's a flag (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2397065&l=9e76b&id=797060156)

[BrettieAngell]

Now that's a flag (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2397065&l=9e76b&id=797060156)

That looks awesome!

[Uncle Leo]

BlueBelles out Boca porristas in (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2397067&l=a404c&id=797060156)

[Smiley]

Quality snaps.

Argentinian football is a dream of mine. :(

[CC51DAS]

BlueBelles out Boca porristas in (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2397067&l=a404c&id=797060156)


I see the local branch of Tesco's have been having trouble with their spelling

[Stig Purple]

Here's a video of an excellent example of terrace drumming (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfKxv8l_r1o) that I took in Argentina. Bearing in mind the home team were losing 2-0 and facing relegation this really kept the atmosphere alive and whipped up the fans into a pogo-ing frenzy.

I really like the military rhythm with bass and snare drums working well together. During the verses of the songs the bass drum is dominant but the snare comes back with a vengeance for the chorus. It's really catchy stuff, so much so that I was tapping my feet during the matches and the songs still go through my head now.

How about giving some Southend songs the full drumming
makeover? "We all follow the Southend" would be ideal for this.

If you're interested in some more videos as well as the background story of my travels have a look at http://www.justgiving.com/davidoldbury

[Smiffy]

I Like it!

Nice and easy to get that sort of beat going, but I feel If we was to try such a beat we would get some very strange looks...

Still, IF we get the NB back next season, we'll certainly give it a crack, would like to think we could get the jumping up and down going aswell...

[SUFC Forever]

A fellow I used to work with had an Argentinian girlfriend and when he visited her over there was lucky enough to get tickets for a Boca v River Plate game. Now as most people know, that is not rivalry it is blind hatred. Maradona was once quoted as saying he would have no problems wearing a Brazil shirt but would rather die than be seen in a River Plate jersey, so that gives some idea of the feeling between the two clubs.

This guy Tom said it was one of the most excillerating, frightening and best experiences of his life going to that match and was as somebody here said, pure theatre matching nothing he had ever seen at any sports event in this country. Jumping, flares etc - all as have been mentioned here and apparently plenty of anti English songs. Indeed it was pointed out that it would not be wise to be identified as English but as he was fairly dark skinned and spoke fluent Spanish, this did prove to be a problem.

He actually said that it is something everybody should experience at least once in their lives and if ever a chance came to see football in Argentina or South America in general to go as it was truly a white knuckle ride you would never forget.

[Stig Purple]

Yep, it's pretty intense out there so it's no great surprise that football violence is a major problem and has been for many years. Tall fences started going up around the pitches as far back as the 1920s and there's no sign they will ever come down. There's an army of riot police at every game. Even in their second division where away fans are banned (due to problems with violence) riot police are still on duty to separate rival gangs of home fans!

At the game on the video the local barra bravas (Argentine term for hooligan gang) arrived thirty minutes after kick-off brandishing a banner of the away team they had captured during clashes a few blocks from the ground. These guys then flooded on to the terraces next to us though we were advised to move aside from their territory in the centre of it. Definitely not a time to say "Hello, I'm from England", especially as there was a Malvinas banner hanging up on the fence! Was wearing my Southend shirt though. :)

[Uncle Leo]

Definitely not a time to say "Hello, I'm from England", especially as there was a Malvinas banner hanging up on the fence! Was wearing my Southend shirt though. :)

:) Too true

I was with some Scottish and Irish mates and when we were at the Boca game quite a few people asked us where we were from. I said 'England' first time and then just got mocked mercilessly about 1986. Chose the easy life and said 'Ireland' when asked after that!

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Notice that the best atmosphere is generated by people STANDING UP at football. Look at Germany where standing at domestic games is permitted and the atmosphere is superb. The following clip features the pre-match atmosphere at Eintracht Frankfurt; it certainly sends shivers down the spine, especially when the stands start chanting at each other at around 03:20 and the famous Frankfurt jumping at 04:25. Imagine being in the away end and seeing that lot.

Eintracht Frankfurt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTx3NDvRQJ8&feature=related)

[Yorkshire Blue]

:) Too true

I was with some Scottish and Irish mates and when we were at the Boca game quite a few people asked us where we were from. I said 'England' first time and then just got mocked mercilessly about 1986. Chose the easy life and said 'Ireland' when asked after that!

Bah, fight back and talk about the 2002 world cup.

I never got any problems in Argentina when I said I was from England. Most of the people I spoke to were around my age and would have been too young to really know what was going on about the Falklands at the time, and any Anglo-Argentine rivalry was about the football, when I was more than happy to indulge in the banter.

The only time I think I encountered someone who had an issue with me being English and the Malvinas was in Bolivia. It was towards the end of a long fiesta day and I was in a bar in which some serious drinking had been taking place, and this old guy came up and starting speaking to me. My Spanish was pretty basic at the best of times, let alone when i was half cut, I followed about half of what he was saying but didn't quite figure out whether he was warning me about being English in Argentina or having a go at me for being English because of the Falklands. Anyway, he passed out soon afterwards. I probably passed out soon afterwards

[Yorkshire Blue]

A fellow I used to work with had an Argentinian girlfriend and when he visited her over there was lucky enough to get tickets for a Boca v River Plate game. Now as most people know, that is not rivalry it is blind hatred. Maradona was once quoted as saying he would have no problems wearing a Brazil shirt but would rather die than be seen in a River Plate jersey, so that gives some idea of the feeling between the two clubs.

This guy Tom said it was one of the most excillerating, frightening and best experiences of his life going to that match and was as somebody here said, pure theatre matching nothing he had ever seen at any sports event in this country. Jumping, flares etc - all as have been mentioned here and apparently plenty of anti English songs. Indeed it was pointed out that it would not be wise to be identified as English but as he was fairly dark skinned and spoke fluent Spanish, this did prove to be a problem.

He actually said that it is something everybody should experience at least once in their lives and if ever a chance came to see football in Argentina or South America in general to go as it was truly a white knuckle ride you would never forget.

Didn't get to go to the River v Boca game (missed it by a couple of days - I was gutted) but went to see River in the Copa Libertadores. Great atmosphere, it was something special when they unfurled this massive flag that covered the end of the Monumental, one of the biggest stadiums in the world. Think I've got those photos up on facebook somewhere.

Also saw some Ecuadorian football. The pre-match procession was fantastic, with everyone leaning out of their cars waving flags, hooting horns. You could drink during the game as well, although not so sure it was a good idea for the midday kick-offs, especially when I was struggling with the altitude!

[Uncle Leo]

Bah, fight back and talk about the 2002 world cup.

I never got any problems in Argentina when I said I was from England. Most of the people I spoke to were around my age and would have been too young to really know what was going on about the Falklands at the time, and any Anglo-Argentine rivalry was about the football, when I was more than happy to indulge in the banter.
[/COLOR]

I wouldn't want to give the impression it was anything other than just banter. But when they're rattling off at you in a thick as syrup BA accent (I can speak Spanish, but their accent is a bit different to the Andaluz version I'm used to!) it's sometimes easier to take the soft option.

Spent a lot of time later in the holiday with some BA locals and encountered no problems whatsoever. Great people.

[GregStarz]

I went to see Chelsea v Fenerbache and if you want an atmosphere then I recommend these guys as great examples!

They all have a yellow scarf, they all have yellow jackets on with no fear eyes on the back followed by two skulls (to intimidate) and they all sing with passion.

This was a little video taken about 2 hours before kick off, so imageine what it was like even closer to kick off!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I8lXXefvlo&feature=related

Now I have superb Ideas/suggestions for Southend but it depends on alot of things, however if you wanna chat Smiffy (as I've pretty much known you for ages feel free to add me on msn)

[GregStarz]

Here is a clip of them at home in full flow, notice that they don't just get a little section or the odd few clapping? everyone has to clap/join in with pride and passion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBBPoyXEOhM

They also love confetti/streams as you can see in the following clip and the chanting to each other in different tiers is awesome, when they done this at Chelsea I was so impressed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AInR7EZ-zo

On a different note, Liverpool have started this chant for Fernando Torres which is awesome and so catchy. Now im sure I can make one up for southend if all is interested?

(with words)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUjRQfJ3f74&feature=related

(without words in full flow)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKoPLt_coFI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QtadnQP9Ts&feature=related

[BrettieAngell]

On a different note, Liverpool have started this chant for Fernando Torres which is awesome and so catchy. Now im sure I can make one up for southend if all is interested?

(with words)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUjRQfJ3f74&feature=related

(without words in full flow)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKoPLt_coFI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QtadnQP9Ts&feature=related

have a look here mate -

http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?t=38054

[Smiffy]

I went to see Chelsea v Fenerbache and if you want an atmosphere then I recommend these guys as great examples!

They all have a yellow scarf, they all have yellow jackets on with no fear eyes on the back followed by two skulls (to intimidate) and they all sing with passion.

This was a little video taken about 2 hours before kick off, so imageine what it was like even closer to kick off!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I8lXXefvlo&feature=related

Now I have superb Ideas/suggestions for Southend but it depends on alot of things, however if you wanna chat Smiffy (as I've pretty much known you for ages feel free to add me on msn)

I've added you to MSN mate, will be interested to hear any suggestions you can put forward to implement next season...