England Middle Order

[C C Csiders]

Come the Ashes series, should the England selectors stick with Bell and Thorpe in the middle-order as per the last series against Bangladesh.

Or should Pietersen, fresh from his one-day triumphs usurp one of the present incumbents.

Or should someone else (i.e Robert Key, Owais Shah) play in the middle order alongside the three named above.

Or should they all be left out and two different players to those named be given their chance.

For the record I would certainly stick with Thorpe, as his experience alone will be necessary against the Aussies. His record in Tests speaks for itself, and when runs are needed he invariably gets them. Add to that his left-handedness, and he can't be left out. I'd go for Bell to partner him to begin with, and see how he gets on early in the series. If it doesn't work with him then enter Pietersen.

[Matt the Shrimp]

It's a tough one. *Thorpey's record against the Aussies speaks for itself, of course. *But this is - probably - the arch-nurdler's last series for England.

If so, should we not be looking to the future?

It's a really tough call. *I've voted for Pietersen, but it's Bell and one of Thorpe or Pietersen for me. *Maybe give Thorpe one more Test - and if he blows it, he's out.

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Good to see the selectors with a selection dilemma for a change. *Moreover, our line-up is looking half-decent; it might even be a competitive series for a change. I'm still expecting the Baggy Greens to win, but not by much - 2-1, maybe?

Trescothick
Strauss
Vaughan (*)
Bell
Pietersen / Thorpe
Flintoff
G.O. Jones (+)
Giles
S. Jones
Hoggard
Harmison

Not bad, that...

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Matt

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ June 27 2005,15:54)]Trescothick
Strauss
Vaughan (*)
Bell
Pietersen / Thorpe
Flintoff
G.O. Jones (+)
Giles
S. Jones
Hoggard
Harmison

Not bad, that...

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Matt
Not bad at all. Certainly good enough to beat any other side in world cricket at the moment (with the possible exception of India away).

I've just got a sneaky feeling, we can at least have a tied series (2-2) or maybe even sneak a 2-1 out of them. I think their pace attack, has now gone over the peak of the hill and is on its way down. A lot is going to depend on Warney, and that is why, for now I think Thorpe is the man. He has an excellent record against Shane Warne and he negates his leg spin with his left-handedness.

Another help would, I think, be a damp and humid summer with a refreshed Matthew Hoggard being able to swing the ball hither and thither. I think that Hayden and Langer may be susceptible to a swinging ball early in their innings.

[The General]

Pretty much agree with Matt's XI ...

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As for the ODI. We need to sort our line-up out IMO.

Tresco
Strauss
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Pietersen
Freddy Flintoff
Collingwood
WK Jones
Giles
S. Jones
Gough
Harmisson

Playing Collingwood at 4 is wrong IMO. Pietersen scores centuries and needs to be up the top. Collingwood is a great player and is a better, albeit not as explosive finisher of an innings, especially when setting a target when we bat first.

Vaughan has gotta go from the ODI's. Its becoming like the Nasser issue all over again. But who replaces him? Who becomes captain? Im not sure Tresco is up to it/can cope with it and i'll let you lot decide on that.

[Bluesmanager]

I thought the Ashes were a five match series, not a three, I'd go for 3-2 either way, for the record.

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (Bluesmanager @ June 27 2005,20:43)]I thought the Ashes were a five match series, not a three, I'd go for 3-2 either way, for the record.
A couple of Tests, in mine and MtS' opinion, will end in Draws. hence the 2-1's.

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (The General @ June 27 2005,18:09)]Pretty much agree with Matt's XI ...

http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

As for the ODI. We need to sort our line-up out IMO.

Tresco
Strauss
http://www.shrimperzone.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?
Pietersen
Freddy Flintoff
Collingwood
WK Jones
Giles
S. Jones
Gough
Harmisson

Playing Collingwood at 4 is wrong IMO. Pietersen scores centuries and needs to be up the top. Collingwood is a great player and is a better, albeit not as explosive finisher of an innings, especially when setting a target when we bat first.

Vaughan has gotta go from the ODI's. Its becoming like the Nasser issue all over again. But who replaces him? Who becomes captain? Im not sure Tresco is up to it/can cope with it and i'll let you lot decide on that.
Got to agree completely. The line-up as stated seems spot-on. If we get off to a good atart with Trescothick and Strauss, then I would plump for Pietersen at 3, if a wicket goes early then I would put Solanki in at 3 (who should be the man to replace Vaughan in that line-up). The situation with Vaughan in ODI's is very starange, in that he seems to score quicker in Tests than in the one-day game.

If Pietersen does bat 3, then Solanki would drop down the order after Collingwood.

Gough in at 9 ahead of Jones in the batting order.

Captain. I would try Strauss in the ODI's, as Trescothick does seem to make some errors of judgement.

[The Flying Scotsman]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ June 27 2005,15:54)]It's a tough one. *Thorpey's record against the Aussies speaks for itself, of course. *But this is - probably - the arch-nurdler's last series for England.

If so, should we not be looking to the future?
Looking to the future? Sorry to me the Ashes is the pinnacle - It is what we build towards. After every ashes the team gets rebuilt to prepare for the next ashes series. Against the Aussies we need to play our best XI, regardless of age and likely retirements!

On that basis as well, I would be very interested to see who we turn to if one of the 4 seamers get injured. I think Jimmy Anderson needs a lot more work. Would Goughie be tempted to make a comeback, after all who loves playing the aussies more than anyone?

I don't think the issue should be Thorpe V Pieterson more Bell V Pieterson. I for one would plump for this team.

Trescothick
Strauss
Vaughn
Thorpe
Pieterson
Flintoff
Jones G
Giles
Hoggard
Jones S
Harmison

Bell to be a back up batter, Gough to be a back up bowler.

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ June 28 2005,10:59)]On that basis as well, I would be very interested to see who we turn to if one of the 4 seamers get injured. I think Jimmy Anderson needs a lot more work. Would Goughie be tempted to make a comeback, after all who loves playing the aussies more than anyone?
Was thinking that myself. I wouldn't mind betting that if there is an injury to a seamer (probably the luckless Simon Jones) then Goughie may be tempted out of Test retirement. The only problem is whether he is physically able to last 5 days now.

[W4 Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (C C Csiders @ June 28 2005,11:21)]Was thinking that myself. I wouldn't mind betting that if there is an injury to a seamer (probably the luckless Simon Jones) then Goughie may be tempted out of Test retirement. The only problem is whether he is physically able to last 5 days now.
To be honest, I doubt he can. His efficacy in the one day game is thanks mostly to the fact that he only has to bowl a max of ten overs.

[sufcintheprem]

Don't think Jones or Collingwood did themselves any damage after today's display. What a knock by both of them!! Bit of luck involved but when it presents itself, take advantage. In fact, Giles and Gough should also take a lot of credit for never believeing the game was lost even as McGrath and Lee were bowling last two.

Interesting to see what effect this has on the Aussie morale. I for one had all bur given up the hope when I came in from footy to find us 33-5 after 15. They must have thought they'd won it and then they drew. It really felt like a victory to me.