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Teachers strike

Forums New posts
Well what a surprise - a self-report survey of 1000 teachers who were asked to record a diary of just 1 days' work suggests that they work long hours!

Looking at the survey, the majority of time for regular teachers is doing 'planning, assessment and preparation'. assuming they're like teachers I know, those tasks are done on the bus, in front of the telly, while eating lunch/dinner etc.

Just as a comparison - doctors work a maximum of 58 hours a week (that's 24/7 10 hour shifts, not 'planning/prep/assessment') - on average it's over 50 hours. Their continual development and assessment is done in their spare time - not on cushty baker days.

I'd much rather work a 50 hour week as a teacher than a doctor!
 
Pubey said:
Well what a surprise - a self-report survey of 1000 teachers who were asked to record a diary of just 1 days' work suggests that they work long hours!

Looking at the survey, the majority of time for regular teachers is doing 'planning, assessment and preparation'. assuming they're like teachers I know, those tasks are done on the bus, in front of the telly, while eating lunch/dinner etc.

Just as a comparison - doctors work a maximum of 58 hours a week (that's 24/7 10 hour shifts, not 'planning/prep/assessment') - on average it's over 50 hours. Their continual development and assessment is done in their spare time - not on cushty baker days.

I'd much rather work a 50 hour week as a teacher than a doctor!
Click to expand...

How much are doctors paid in comparison to teachers though, especially newly qualified ones?
 
Pubey said:
Well what a surprise - a self-report survey of 1000 teachers who were asked to record a diary of just 1 days' work suggests that they work long hours!

Looking at the survey, the majority of time for regular teachers is doing 'planning, assessment and preparation'. assuming they're like teachers I know, those tasks are done on the bus, in front of the telly, while eating lunch/dinner etc.

Just as a comparison - doctors work a maximum of 58 hours a week (that's 24/7 10 hour shifts, not 'planning/prep/assessment') - on average it's over 50 hours. Their continual development and assessment is done in their spare time - not on cushty baker days.

I'd much rather work a 50 hour week as a teacher than a doctor!
Click to expand...

All I can say is that the teachers you know must be under much less pressure than the teachers I know, and have worked with. Note that that report says that primary teachers work more than their secondary counterparts.
 
MK Shrimper said:
How much are doctors paid in comparison to teachers though, especially newly qualified ones?
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Firstly, a doctor spends 3 years at uni and then 2 years in clinical training. After that then they spend 2 or 3 years training as a specialist.

For these 2-3 years they're earning between £20-30k. This is perfectly comparable to NQTs.

So a specialist registrar will have spent 7 or 8 years 'investing' at university and in hospital to get to a 'standard' doctor level. it's this investment which is why they're rewarded with a good salary.

At this level they're earning between £37 and 70k

Once you're a consultant. Which doesn't happen until you're about 35, you'll be on £75k
 
OldBlueLady said:
All I can say is that the teachers you know must be under much less pressure than the teachers I know, and have worked with. Note that that report says that primary teachers work more than their secondary counterparts.
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Which is why I caveated my post. Even people working in education will have a fairly blinkered view of what's the 'norm' across the sector.
 
Starting salary
Starting pay compares well with other graduate professions.

A newly qualified teacher (NQT) will earn a minimum of £21,804 (£27,270 in inner London) but could start on more depending on previous experience.

This makes teaching one of the most financially secure and rewarding career options open to you, comparing favourably with other sectors.
Click to expand...

http://www.education.gov.uk/get-into-teaching/salary/starting-salary
 
OldBlueLady said:
Exactly, unless they take on extra responsibilities after their initial year as an NQT, they are unlikely to be earning more than £25k, tops!
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It's the same for newly qualified doctors. £22,636 is the basic salary of an F1.
 
Pubey said:
Firstly, a doctor spends 3 years at uni and then 2 years in clinical training. After that then they spend 2 or 3 years training as a specialist.

For these 2-3 years they're earning between £20-30k. This is perfectly comparable to NQTs.

So a specialist registrar will have spent 7 or 8 years 'investing' at university and in hospital to get to a 'standard' doctor level. it's this investment which is why they're rewarded with a good salary.

At this level they're earning between £37 and 70k

Once you're a consultant. Which doesn't happen until you're about 35, you'll be on £75k
Click to expand...

Rubbish. I have a friend who is a consultant anaesthetist. He has bought a house worth £2.1m. His mortgage is £900,000. (Therefore he put down a deposit of £1.2m.) His two kids also go to one of the most expensive schools in the country. He didn't do that on £75k. Your numbers assume that the doctor doesn't work in the private sector, which simply isn't the case. Once they start private work, and reduce (or even cease with) their NHS work they can earn millions.

(I also wrote this friend's invoicing database. He wanted to start using it immediately so I had to develop it using live data. I can assure you, even when he was only just qualified and hadn't built much of a network/private list, he was earning more in his private work than his NHS salary.)

Doctors will happily work the long hours, and more, because they have a pot of gold at the end of their rainbow that others, including teachers who work just has hard, have no chance of reaching.
 
londonblue said:
Rubbish. I have a friend who is a consultant anaesthetist. He has bought a house worth £2.1m. His mortgage is £900,000. (Therefore he put down a deposit of £1.2m.) He didn't do that on £75k.

Doctors will happily work the long hours and more because they have a pot at the end of their rainbow that others, including teachers who work just has hard, have no chance of reaching.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about basic salary, and that was the starting level. NHS pay spine for a Consultant goes up to £101k. There are numerous ways for a doctor to increase their income (management roles, private work, teaching roles, professional roles etc). However these are still the exception, rather than the norm for lots of doctors. Teachers can also supplement their income (tuition, summer work etc).

I have a Dad who is a consultant and two uncles who are GPs. They're perfectly comfortable, and have nice houses, but none of them are in mansions worth over £2m.

Also they are happy to work the long hours because their job is rewarding (both personally and financially) - not JUST because of the pot of gold. Teachers work long hours because many find their role rewarding. They also get a good salary given the training required, have very high job security, have very decent holidays which means bringing up a family is much easier than most other professions...

I think this is getting side-tracked a bit. Teachers work long hours - but so do lots of people in lots of professions.
 
Pubey said:
I'm talking about basic salary, and that was the starting level. NHS pay spine for a Consultant goes up to £101k. There are numerous ways for a doctor to increase their income (management roles, private work, teaching roles, professional roles etc). However these are still the exception, rather than the norm for lots of doctors. Teachers can also supplement their income (tuition, summer work etc).

I have a Dad who is a consultant and two uncles who are GPs. They're perfectly comfortable, and have nice houses, but none of them are in mansions worth over £2m.

Also they are happy to work the long hours because their job is rewarding (both personally and financially) - not JUST because of the pot of gold. Teachers work long hours because many find their role rewarding. They also get a good salary given the training required, have very high job security, have very decent holidays which means bringing up a family is much easier than most other professions...

I think this is getting side-tracked a bit. Teachers work long hours - but so do lots of people in lots of professions.
Click to expand...

The point I am making is that doctors' salaries are a red herring. They earn far more, and have the potential to earn millions. Therefore your comparison to teachers is massively flawed. Of course doctors and teachers work hard, and probably just as hard, but trying to compare hours and salaries is wrong.

Interestingly this friend's wife is a French teacher. Guess which one works harder.
 
londonblue said:
The point I am making is that doctors' salaries are a red herring. They earn far more, and have the potential to earn millions. Therefore your comparison to teachers is massively flawed. Of course doctors and teachers work hard, and probably just as hard, but trying to compare hours and salaries is wrong.

Interestingly this friend's wife is a French teacher. Guess which one works harder.
Click to expand...

If you read up a bit you'll see I wasn't trying to make a comparison about their salaries. MK asked. At a low level, they're both very similar. As you advance, obviously a Doctor's salary is likely to dwarf that of a teacher.

Doctors work long hours, with less holidays, and also work shifts and have weekends on call. Teachers can moan about working long hours but they're not unusual, and coupled with job security, good holidays and relatively less training to other professions (doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants etc), their pay stacks up pretty well too.
 
Pubey said:
If you read up a bit you'll see I wasn't trying to make a comparison about their salaries. MK asked. At a low level, they're both very similar. As you advance, obviously a Doctor's salary is likely to dwarf that of a teacher.

Doctors work long hours, with less holidays, and also work shifts and have weekends on call. Teachers can moan about working long hours but they're not unusual, and coupled with job security, good holidays and relatively less training to other professions (doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants etc), their pay stacks up pretty well too.
Click to expand...

And my point is that doctors will happily do this because they can earn far more than teachers in the long run. To them it's an investment.

When my friend qualified as a doctor (in 1992 IIRC) he was working about 100 hours a week because that was the norm in those days. All the time he kept his eyes on the prize. Teachers don't have that. They earn a paltry amount for the work they do.

Yes, I could also point out that when I was in banking I worked long hours and never complained. But then I earned a whole lot more than a teacher, even though teachers are at least as qualified as I am. They could easily have done the same job as me and earned the same as me.
 
Yorkshire Blue said:
Teachers can earn 6 figures by progressing in their chosen profession as well.
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Not as teachers, they can't. Heads are largely business managers now, and I'm sure that there are some who go into teaching with that goal in mind. Teaching's a vocation, and teachers train so that they can teach. If they remain as teachers they won't get anywhere near six figures. I'm not a teacher but I've worked in a school and theirs is a thankless job. Why would anyone compare them with the personal wealth-gatherers of the finance world?
 
dingleydangley said:
Not as teachers, they can't. Heads are largely business managers now, and I'm sure that there are some who go into teaching with that goal in mind. Teaching's a vocation, and teachers train so that they can teach. If they remain as teachers they won't get anywhere near six figures. I'm not a teacher but I've worked in a school and theirs is a thankless job. Why would anyone compare them with the personal wealth-gatherers of the finance world?
Click to expand...

You mean, headteachers?

A headteacher is a teacher, who mainly does business stuff. If teachers are money-oriented then they may well end up a headteacher with a six figure salary. Sounds ok to me.
 
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