Not much from the whole Phil Brown and Big Sam relationship

So 16 months into his role as Southend United manager, I am still left very surprised that Phil Brown doesn't seem to milk his close friendship with Sam Allardyce for our benefit. Even more so when you consider the short distance between the two clubs and the fact that many of the West Ham squads would actually live in Essex.

Forget the fact that some Southend fans see West Ham as our rivals, I am sure that West Ham must have some good youngsters that we could loan. Elliott Lee is a young forward (think he played a couple of games at Colchester last season), he won't make the first team but is scoring goals throughout pre season. He would be a cracking loan signing for us. Alongside him I am sure that there must be a couple of others too.

Another surprise is why Big Sam doesn't bring a decent side down for a friendly, this would sell out Roots Hall and earn some vital funds for the club. 10,000 @ £10 more than covers the loss of revenue for a lack of proper kit sponsor (Think I read that Insure and go paid £50k per season).

Surely Phil Brown is missing a trick here, thoughts?

Silencer said:

So 16 months into his role as Southend United manager, I am still left very surprised that Phil Brown doesn't seem to milk his close friendship with Sam Allardyce for our benefit. Even more so when you consider the short distance between the two clubs and the fact that many of the West Ham squads would actually live in Essex.

Forget the fact that some Southend fans see West Ham as our rivals, I am sure that West Ham must have some good youngsters that we could loan. Elliott Lee is a young forward (think he played a couple of games at Colchester last season), he won't make the first team but is scoring goals throughout pre season. He would be a cracking loan signing for us. Alongside him I am sure that there must be a couple of others too.

Another surprise is why Big Sam doesn't bring a decent side down for a friendly, this would sell out Roots Hall and earn some vital funds for the club. 10,000 @ £10 more than covers the loss of revenue for a lack of proper kit sponsor (Think I read that Insure and go paid £50k per season).

Surely Phil Brown is missing a trick here, thoughts?

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Not up to Sam as far as I understand!

Club owners call the shots and usually demand appearance fee!,Any loan player requires the ok from the board and they may insist the loaning club contribute to the players wages.

Red tape aplenty.

Silencer said:

So 16 months into his role as Southend United manager, I am still left very surprised that Phil Brown doesn't seem to milk his close friendship with Sam Allardyce for our benefit. Even more so when you consider the short distance between the two clubs and the fact that many of the West Ham squads would actually live in Essex.

Forget the fact that some Southend fans see West Ham as our rivals, I am sure that West Ham must have some good youngsters that we could loan. Elliott Lee is a young forward (think he played a couple of games at Colchester last season), he won't make the first team but is scoring goals throughout pre season. He would be a cracking loan signing for us. Alongside him I am sure that there must be a couple of others too.

Another surprise is why Big Sam doesn't bring a decent side down for a friendly, this would sell out Roots Hall and earn some vital funds for the club. 10,000 @ £10 more than covers the loss of revenue for a lack of proper kit sponsor (Think I read that Insure and go paid £50k per season).

Surely Phil Brown is missing a trick here, thoughts?

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Been thinking the same.
My best guess is that we are probably a League below where they would like to place their promising youngsters.

Or maybe we just don't think any of West Ham's kids are better than we've currently got?

Or perhaps we do benefit but indirectly. Sam could well be aware of players at other clubs that he thinks could be worth a look at.

Ayrshire Blue said:

Or maybe we just don't think any of West Ham's kids are better than we've currently got?

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Not better that some of the players we've had over the past 16 months.....hmm, not sure on that one.

Gomis, Thompson, Clifford, Read, Cowan all instantly spring to mind

Silencer said:

Not better that some of the players we've had over the past 16 months.....hmm, not sure on that one.

Gomis, Thompson, Clifford, Read, Cowan all instantly spring to mind

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Pardon? ........

It does seem strange but then again I don't think SA has anywhere near as much autonomy as he did at Bolton. Sullivan and Gold are very much hands on (aka interfering old gits). Apparently Teddy Sheringham being brought in as an attacking coach was against SA's wishes.

Think this is out of BFS's hands I'm afraid. We have owners at the club hellbent on spreading out into the far reaches of the Earth, insisting we go on a tour of New Zealand - which was a disaster. My brother went out there and he said it was just embarrassing - both PR and football. We're also in the Schalke 04 Cup at the weekend and the owners have yet again hoodwinked unsuspecting fans into 'voting' for a new badge in time for 2016/17 which says LONDON at the bottom. It's all to attract new investors, this is all just business for them as they hope and pray that a ridiculously rich arab billionaire comes in after we move across the borough so they can flog it and make a mint. It's been their plan since day one yet most West Ham are too thick to see it.
For all we know, BFS has probably had a few calls from Brown, yet is powerless to do anything. Then again, we went away to Stevenage for our first match. It would be great for Southend if it was an annual pre season match and also good for West Ham in the surrounding area. Without a doubt it would fill up. I went to Portman Road the other week and according to the club we took over 1900 up there from East London. By the time the train pulled back in to Romford, I counted 8 West Ham, including myself. After Wickford, it was dead. They were all from central and North Essex.

I'm pretty sure that with their history BFS and Brown are in regular contact - if anyone was to blame for a lack of opportunites for Southend regarding loans and friendlies, I'd go for Sullivan, Gold - but importantly...
BRADY !!

IronMike said:

Think this is out of BFS's hands I'm afraid. We have owners at the club hellbent on spreading out into the far reaches of the Earth, insisting we go on a tour of New Zealand - which was a disaster. My brother went out there and he said it was just embarrassing - both PR and football. We're also in the Schalke 04 Cup at the weekend and the owners have yet again hoodwinked unsuspecting fans into 'voting' for a new badge in time for 2016/17 which says LONDON at the bottom. It's all to attract new investors, this is all just business for them as they hope and pray that a ridiculously rich arab billionaire comes in after we move across the borough so they can flog it and make a mint. It's been their plan since day one yet most West Ham are too thick to see it.
For all we know, BFS has probably had a few calls from Brown, yet is powerless to do anything. Then again, we went away to Stevenage for our first match. It would be great for Southend if it was an annual pre season match and also good for West Ham in the surrounding area. Without a doubt it would fill up. I went to Portman Road the other week and according to the club we took over 1900 up there from East London. By the time the train pulled back in to Romford, I counted 8 West Ham, including myself. After Wickford, it was dead. They were all from central and North Essex.

I'm pretty sure that with their history BFS and Brown are in regular contact - if anyone was to blame for a lack of opportunites for Southend regarding loans and friendlies, I'd go for Sullivan, Gold - but importantly...
BRADY !!

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This is all very well and with no malice intended I would like to point out that Essex Hamster fans are Southend United rejects and the Hamster players are just not good enough to grace our pitch or compete in our squad. Thankfully within five years we will be as high up the pyramid as WH and then we will see all those faux hamster fans clogging up our turnstiles to watch us. :raspberry:

----:smile:----

We've had this over many decades - some sort of fantasy football link with the Spamsters, has amounted to beggar all

Sullivan and Gold have history with us ... ruining our chance of a tasty derbies clash with West Ham in Premiership, if they didn't took Barry Fry away from us, when we on a unstoppable run to the top two in December 1993!!

Silencer said:

So 16 months into his role as Southend United manager, I am still left very surprised that Phil Brown doesn't seem to milk his close friendship with Sam Allardyce for our benefit. Even more so when you consider the short distance between the two clubs and the fact that many of the West Ham squads would actually live in Essex.

Forget the fact that some Southend fans see West Ham as our rivals, I am sure that West Ham must have some good youngsters that we could loan. Elliott Lee is a young forward (think he played a couple of games at Colchester last season), he won't make the first team but is scoring goals throughout pre season. He would be a cracking loan signing for us. Alongside him I am sure that there must be a couple of others too.

Another surprise is why Big Sam doesn't bring a decent side down for a friendly, this would sell out Roots Hall and earn some vital funds for the club. 10,000 @ £10 more than covers the loss of revenue for a lack of proper kit sponsor (Think I read that Insure and go paid £50k per season).

Surely Phil Brown is missing a trick here, thoughts?

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Don't want to be a feeder club to anyone least of all to that lot. "Special relationships" isn't that far away from what Greg Dyke amonst others were proposing before the world cup (we haven't heard the last of that either)
Don't care how good mates they are - they could both be at different clubs/out of employment come september.

Ayrshire Blue said:

Pardon? ........

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Pretty poor first season for us, in my opinion and that of many others Marc Laird was a better option of the two and he was released.

One decent pre season friendly doesn't mean he is better than any potential West Ham players!!!

He is our player so I really hope he steps up this season, but on his terrible first season the jury is still out for me.

Shrimpers are Magic said:

Don't want to be a feeder club to anyone least of all to that lot. "Special relationships" isn't that far away from what Greg Dyke amonst others were proposing before the world cup (we haven't heard the last of that either)
Don't care how good mates they are - they could both be at different clubs/out of employment come september.

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It's not about being a feeder club, I am simply puzzled why we are not utilising the obvious friendship (contact) there is at West Ham. We have loaned Watford players recently but that doesn't mean we are a feeder club to them!?!?

"Special relationships" as you called them are an absolute million miles away from what that wally Greg Dyke is trying to introduce. Relationships and favours have occurred in football since it began and always will, also these "Special relationships" occur at every level from the very top to Sunday league football. In the professional and Semi Pro world favours through contacts are always happening and at all levels managers and coaches often re-sign former players etc

Football is very much who you know and about maximising your chances of success through all possible channels. Whether it a 'rival' or not, if it benefits Southend by having some decent loanees thrown our way or getting regular friendlies boosting our coffers then I personally think PB should tap into this option more.

Silencer said:

Pretty poor first season for us, in my opinion and that of many others Marc Laird was a better option of the two and he was released.

One decent pre season friendly doesn't mean he is better than any potential West Ham players!!!

He is our player so I really hope he steps up this season, but on his terrible first season the jury is still out for me.

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Brown clearly didnt think so as Clifford normally got on the pitch before him.

Add to that Laird's contract was the one that was expiring meant he had to stick with Clifford for now anyway, who knows maybe he would have been released as well.

IIRC we played their youngsters last year, basically for Brown to have a look at them. We beat them and decided that actually there was no one we fancied.

League Two is quite a steep learning curve for young players, no matter what their pedigree is - equally it's not somewhere Premier League managers really want to place their youngsters. It doesn't always follow that youngsters in squads like west ham are actually any better than players at this level anyway, how many times do we see players show promise in Premier youth teams then drop out of the league altogether (Lee Sawyer on bench for Chelmsford tonight)? The margins between making it at PL level and dropping down to League Two are actually quite fine. The English lower leagues are easily the strongest of their type in Europe.

There's a few that would benefit Southend. Elliott Lee is one but he would want to play a higher level than Division 3.

A close proximity sure but from West Ham's perspective they want to do the best business that they can for the club. The academy at West Ham is well regarded and every single youngster will have been looked at by numerous clubs so there is unlikely going to be one player that another club would not go in for and quite frankly I think Ron struggles with his resources to compete against a lot of other league clubs.

southend4ever said:

quite frankly I think Ron struggles with his resources to compete against a lot of other league clubs.

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... he struggles with his resources and his reputation.