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Southend United manager Phil Brown defends decision to take off Jack Payne against Ox

Evening Echo

The News
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
Messages
12,514
SOUTHEND United manager Phil Brown defended his decision to subsitute Jack Payne during his side's 1-1 draw against Oxford United on Saturday.

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“I also made the change to give us a solid foundation to try and win the game but the luck is going against us at the moment.”

My backside. The substitutions made were wrong. If you are trying to hang on to a 1-0 as PB always wants to, then you would bring the likes of Deegan on. Perhaps even Mads and pushed Thompson into the midfield.

His first sub was made when we were 1-0 up and he took Payne of for Worrall. Wozzer is a good player but not the type I would look to so the side could see out the game with nigh on half an hour to go.

Hurst and Corr were brought on in a desperate attempt to retrieve what had been thrown away and they are currently two players you would not be excited to see coming on as game changers right now.

PB cocked this up and there is no glossing over it or point in blaming a referee. Again.
 
“I also made the change to give us a solid foundation to try and win the game but the luck is going against us at the moment.”

My backside. The substitutions made were wrong. If you are trying to hang on to a 1-0 as PB always wants to, then you would bring the likes of Deegan on. Perhaps even Mads and pushed Thompson into the midfield.

His first sub was made when we were 1-0 up and he took Payne of for Worrall. Wozzer is a good player but not the type I would look to so the side could see out the game with nigh on half an hour to go.

Hurst and Corr were brought on in a desperate attempt to retrieve what had been thrown away and they are currently two players you would not be excited to see coming on as game changers right now.

PB cocked this up and there is no glossing over it or point in blaming a referee. Again.

Another very good post
 
Hmm PB seems to be having to justify everything he is doing at the moment, never a good position for a manager to be in.
 
“I also made the change to give us a solid foundation to try and win the game but the luck is going against us at the moment.”

My backside. The substitutions made were wrong. If you are trying to hang on to a 1-0 as PB always wants to, then you would bring the likes of Deegan on. Perhaps even Mads and pushed Thompson into the midfield.

His first sub was made when we were 1-0 up and he took Payne of for Worrall. Wozzer is a good player but not the type I would look to so the side could see out the game with nigh on half an hour to go.

Hurst and Corr were brought on in a desperate attempt to retrieve what had been thrown away and they are currently two players you would not be excited to see coming on as game changers right now.

PB cocked this up and there is no glossing over it or point in blaming a referee. Again.

Spot on, i don't know what he says to them at half time but it has the adverse effect, remember Burton?
 
Have to agree that the subs weren't great yesterday. We needed more stability in the midfield as the lads were hoofing at every chance.
I don't think he needs to defend his decision to take Payne off, more who he brought on and how he changed the set up.
 
If he took Payne off for having tired-looking legs - why leave Atkinson on? he was treading water for the last half hour.
 
Payne is what 18 years old.....two games in 5 days should be a piece of **** for a young man
 
Have to say I was staggered when Payne came off. It was slightly predictable though!
Once I saw he was starting my immediate thought was I bet he gets subbed - young player, too many games, break in gently drivel! Can't believe I was right!
My other concern was that despite a start on Saturday, he wouldn't get a run in the team to prove himself. Surely PB is not foolish enough not to start him next Saturday, although I get the impression he doesn't like being told what to do, so who knows?
 
I thought Payne looked tired

Me too. He was standing around with his hands on the small of his back for about ten minutes before the sub. Anyone relate to that? It just strikes me at the moment that people who are down on Brown are just looking for excuses. Payne looked knackered.
 
Me too. He was standing around with his hands on the small of his back for about ten minutes before the sub. Anyone relate to that? It just strikes me at the moment that people who are down on Brown are just looking for excuses. Payne looked knackered.

To be fair I don't think many are criticising Payne coming off. Two games in quick succession with his work rate and at his age is possible too much. Its the fact that PB said when he came off he was essentially looking to see the game out 1-0. Firstly that is a farce with 30 minutes to go an secondly would you have brought worrall on or deegan if you wanted to shut up shop?

Added to this, when the equaliser went in we were stuck with bringing on two out of form players in Hurst and Corr to try and save the game. Sorry SBH but the Payne substitution is not the gripe most have.

PB should never have gone on record saying he wants to worry about the defence and stop conceding whilst the attack can look after itself. For a team that scores too few goals that was going to ruffle feathers and rightly so.
 
He doesnt actually say he wanted to see it out at 1-0, you are putting words into his mouth.

If he wanted to do that, and was as defensive as people keep claiming, he would have put a defensive player on as you said in your earlier post.

He wanted to add solidity in to go on and win it, and Worrall is a more solid option to put on with Payne fading, but one that can still contribute to attack, that's different to just holding on for the rest of the game.

As for Corr and Hurst, Corr has provided the best outlet we have for other players, already playing a part in assists and setting up others to miss (!) , and is he really more out of form than Coulthirst?
 
He doesnt actually say he wanted to see it out at 1-0, you are putting words into his mouth.

If he wanted to do that, and was as defensive as people keep claiming, he would have put a defensive player on as you said in your earlier post.

He wanted to add solidity in to go on and win it, and Worrall is a more solid option to put on with Payne fading, but one that can still contribute to attack, that's different to just holding on for the rest of the game.

As for Corr and Hurst, Corr has provided the best outlet we have for other players, already playing a part in assists and setting up others to miss (!) , and is he really more out of form than Coulthirst?

Your point about solidity may be right or may be splitting hairs. Is worrall more solid? would deegan not have freed up more attacking mids whilst adding steel?

As for Corr, you always defend him, he may to you be worth his inclusion but I dont and as for the question whether he is more out of form than Coulthirst, who knows? They are both below whats needed. The bench only had LB as an alternative and PB rarely wants to utilise him. Somewhere, whether its from the younger players or a loan, we need a new option.
 
Your point about solidity may be right or may be splitting hairs. Is worrall more solid? would deegan not have freed up more attacking mids whilst adding steel?

As for Corr, you always defend him, he may to you be worth his inclusion but I dont and as for the question whether he is more out of form than Coulthirst, who knows? They are both below whats needed. The bench only had LB as an alternative and PB rarely wants to utilise him. Somewhere, whether its from the younger players or a loan, we need a new option.


I defend Corr because despite a lack of goals he has had an impact and has assists already and would have more if other players were more clinical, Coulthirst has nothing. I know which Id prefer in the team out of the two to lead the line but Brown may have thought that all important pace was more important, and personally pace is pointless without an end product.

As for loans or new options then certainly is something to consider if Brown really doesnt think Barnard is up to it. I think our problems, like earlier this year run deeper than just having a striker that can hit the net regularly. Back then we got in Loza and a good result against Oxford sent us flying up the form table even when using the same players prior to Oxford.

I remember there being a lot of people then saying Corr wasnt up to it and he scored 7 in his last 15, so he is capable.
 
I defend Corr because despite a lack of goals he has had an impact and has assists already and would have more if other players were more clinical, Coulthirst has nothing. I know which Id prefer in the team out of the two to lead the line but Brown may have thought that all important pace was more important, and personally pace is pointless without an end product.

As for loans or new options then certainly is something to consider if Brown really doesnt think Barnard is up to it. I think our problems, like earlier this year run deeper than just having a striker that can hit the net regularly. Back then we got in Loza and a good result against Oxford sent us flying up the form table even when using the same players prior to Oxford.

I see your point but for me and it is only an opinion, we are unlikely to concede as few this term to last term. That means we have to score even more. If Coulthirst suddenly scored in the next game do you see him getting enough this season to be the answer? For me its a no. What about Corr? Even if he reproduces goals and assists of last season, is that enough? For me it is again no.

So that leaves us scratching. Who do we play and what do we do to turn it around? Whatever the answer is I do not believe it is PB's usual response of more of the same.

I believe we have a fair squad. I think the attack is considerably below what is required and the area I think needs the attention. The defence is so-so. We need, as all aspiring teams need, to score a lot more than we concede but that is not in our locker currently.
 
I see your point but for me and it is only an opinion, we are unlikely to concede as few this term to last term. That means we have to score even more. If Coulthirst suddenly scored in the next game do you see him getting enough this season to be the answer? For me its a no. What about Corr? Even if he reproduces goals and assists of last season, is that enough? For me it is again no.

So that leaves us scratching. Who do we play and what do we do to turn it around? Whatever the answer is I do not believe it is PB's usual response of more of the same.

I believe we have a fair squad. I think the attack is considerably below what is required and the area I think needs the attention. The defence is so-so. We need, as all aspiring teams need, to score a lot more than we concede but that is not in our locker currently.

All fair comments I think.

I dont think anyone can really argue that the defensive and attacking options are weaker than last season. Overall IMO we are quite a bit weaker than last term.

Question is does Phil or more importantly Ron have the ability to change that?...Let's hope so or it could be quite a "nothing" season.
 
The problem with many of our strikers has traditionally been that they look bad because neither Sturrock nor Brown played in a way in which they were particularly important or used correctly. Often our strikers have been bypassed by our midfielders confusing themselves with Frank Lampard and shooting more often than they cross/pass. Often our strikers are asked to do just toi much work outside of the box and lack presence in it. This year seems to be different, we seem to be serving them up better, yet we are missing a lot. The biggest offender being Shaq. Will he break his duck and go on from there? Maybe, maybe not...but if he doesn't, the other options are just so bereft of form you wonder what the younger players are like or...Payne up front?...something different is required.
 
Yeah I said 'toi'....it's the new 'too'. Deal with it.
 
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