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Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 1-1 Exeter

Forums New posts
YoungWestcliffShrimper said:
it is the way you say it, think we are a bigger club, you say it like you look down on other teams. Exeter had won there last three games away from home, does that give us the right to beat them???
Click to expand...

I despise this attitude harboured by way too many Southend fans that we are somehow at our level and shouldn't expect to be winning certain games and ultimately be promoted.
Plain and simple for me - we have a squad on paper who are good enough to beat every side in this, let's face it, very poor League, but it is becoming abundantly clear that we don't have a manager who can set up the players accordingly to suit their respective strengths (and weaknesses).

I for one, certainly think it is not unreasonable for us to be expecting to win all of our home games and a vast majority of our away games in this dire division. What doesn't help is having a manager who didn't address the obvious lack of goalscoring threat in the close season, and who doesn't have a clue what to do when the chips are down and we are about to throw away another point (or 3).
 
I think it was wrong Exeter passed the ball out of defence and threaded passes that caused us all mannner of second-half problems.
They should have spooned high, mostly hopeful balls down the channels, and played like us. That would have been far more a level playing field.
Truth, plain and simple, is there is nothing like the discipline and character of the promoted League Two side under Tilson.
Dan Bentley apart, and maybe Jack Payne in the future, who will be successsful in a higher division?
 
Chris Powell's mate said:
I think it was wrong Exeter passed the ball out of defence and threaded passes that caused us all mannner of second-half problems.
They should have spooned high, mostly hopeful balls down the channels, and played like us. That would have been far more a level playing field.
Truth, plain and simple there is nothing like the discipline and character of the promoted League Two side under Tilson.
Dan Bentley apart, and maybe Jack Payne in the future, who will be successsful in a higher division?
Click to expand...

Sorry: have taken out an errant 'is'
 
THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK said:
Exeter changed the midfield second half and took control. That is when Brown should have added some steel in there by bringing on Clifford and maybe sacrificing Atkinson. We needed to match them in the middle.
Also, Thompson and Prosser were fine for a few games, but now Thompson is way out of form and looking poor, and Prosser is looking like he is only 80% fit. A recipe for disaster.
Click to expand...

I thought this too!

I don't know what goes on every 1/2 time when we are a goal up, all I know is the team comes out in the 2nd half with a completely different mental attitude (seems to be panic mode of 'we must hold on at all costs, get rid as quick as we can).

I know that I have said this before but it can't help that we have three defensive minded coaches leading the team - who seem devoid of any attacking know how.

I thought (although he didn't score but nor does Corr) that Barnard showed that he is a class above BBC at the moment and was a real nuisance to the Exeter defense, it's just a shame that we dont have anybody who is on the same wavelength when it comes to creating chances for him (or anybody else for that matter).

There have been many times over the last few matches when players have had the opportunity to take the ball into the oppo's penalty box and put their defense under pressure, but the option to stop and play the ball wide is taken instead only for a (poor) cross to no one the result. How about we encourage players to 'get in the box' and 'have a go' instead, or play the ball into the channels behind the defense - you never know we may even score or get a penalty!

... Oh sorry I forget 'we don't need to practice attacking moves as they will look after themselves'... :'(

P.S Can't fault Deegan's or Atkinson's efforts, but they are too content to pass the ball sideways or backwards therefore slowing the game down, this allows the opposition defense to reform, and prevents the forwards from having having space.
 
IloveShrimp said:
I thought this too!

I don't know what goes on every 1/2 time when we are a goal up, all I know is the team comes out in the 2nd half with a completely different mental attitude (seems to be panic mode of 'we must hold on at all costs, get rid as quick as we can).

I know that I have said this before but it can't help that we have three defensive minded coaches leading the team - who seem devoid of any attacking know how.

I thought (although he didn't score but nor does Corr) that Barnard showed that he is a class above BBC at the moment and was a real nuisance to the Exeter defense, it's just a shame that we dont have anybody who is on the same wavelength when it comes to creating chances for him (or anybody else for that matter).

There have been many times over the last few matches when players have had the opportunity to take the ball into the oppo's penalty box and put their defense under pressure, but the option to stop and play the ball wide is taken instead only for a (poor) cross to no one the result. How about we encourage players to 'get in the box' and 'have a go' instead, or play the ball into the channels behind the defense - you never know we may even score or get a penalty!

... Oh sorry I forget 'we don't need to practice attacking moves as they will look after themselves'... :'(

P.S Can't fault Deegan's or Atkinson's efforts, but they are too content to pass the ball sideways or backwards therefore slowing the game down, this allows the opposition defense to reform, and prevents the forwards from having having space.
Click to expand...

This is the strange thing about the only midfielder willing to do that, Jack Payne. Some fans, including me, were calling him our little Messi, as he was willing to beat players and be direct and get into the penalty area. He was looking really dangerous. Now he has stopped doing that and has adopted the pass it sideways instead mentality. He has now taken out the best part about his game, and is now looking ordinary. Weird.
 
Sherif H said:
I despise this attitude harboured by way too many Southend fans that we are somehow at our level and shouldn't expect to be winning certain games and ultimately be promoted.
Plain and simple for me - we have a squad on paper who are good enough to beat every side in this, let's face it, very poor League, but it is becoming abundantly clear that we don't have a manager who can set up the players accordingly to suit their respective strengths (and weaknesses).

I for one, certainly think it is not unreasonable for us to be expecting to win all of our home games and a vast majority of our away games in this dire division. What doesn't help is having a manager who didn't address the obvious lack of goalscoring threat in the close season, and who doesn't have a clue what to do when the chips are down and we are about to throw away another point (or 3).
Click to expand...
This is just ridiculously optimistic. There are some big clubs in this league at present - Portsmouth, Plymouth, Luton (like us, all previous Championship sides in their recent history). We don't have a god given right to walk this league.
 
IloveShrimp said:
I don't know what goes on every 1/2 time when we are a goal up, all I know is the team comes out in the 2nd half with a completely different mental attitude (seems to be panic mode of 'we must hold on at all costs, get rid as quick as we can)
Click to expand...

This is worryingly so true.
 
IloveShrimp said:
I thought this too!

I don't know what goes on every 1/2 time when we are a goal up, all I know is the team comes out in the 2nd half with a completely different mental attitude (seems to be panic mode of 'we must hold on at all costs, get rid as quick as we can).

I know that I have said this before but it can't help that we have three defensive minded coaches leading the team - who seem devoid of any attacking know how.

I thought (although he didn't score but nor does Corr) that Barnard showed that he is a class above BBC at the moment and was a real nuisance to the Exeter defense, it's just a shame that we dont have anybody who is on the same wavelength when it comes to creating chances for him (or anybody else for that matter).

There have been many times over the last few matches when players have had the opportunity to take the ball into the oppo's penalty box and put their defense under pressure, but the option to stop and play the ball wide is taken instead only for a (poor) cross to no one the result. How about we encourage players to 'get in the box' and 'have a go' instead, or play the ball into the channels behind the defense - you never know we may even score or get a penalty!

... Oh sorry I forget 'we don't need to practice attacking moves as they will look after themselves'... :'(

P.S Can't fault Deegan's or Atkinson's efforts, but they are too content to pass the ball sideways or backwards therefore slowing the game down, this allows the opposition defense to reform, and prevents the forwards from having having space.
Click to expand...

This is why you need Payne, Clifford and Leonard as part of the midfield, players who can drive into the box and score goals and gain penalties. Yesterdays midfield is not the answer.
 
meerkat54 said:
No new striker = No promotion. Simples !!
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. Our defence looks so nervous at times but last season and so far this season we have one of the best defensive records in the FL. However, they are nervous because they know that conceding obe goal probably means a draw at best because we are completely inept up front. Signing Shaq for the season was a huge mistake - he's not good enough or strong enough for this division and (as I commented some time ago but nobody took any notice because i am not one of the 'regulars' on this forum) PB is under pressure to play him for financial reasons.

Barney played well yesterday given his total lack of match practice and i think a run in the team for him will make him better. However, whether it is Barney, BBBC, Shaq or Westy we are not getting enough shots on target. Payne and Cliffird appear to get more shots away than our front line.

My concern is that i dont think our current forward line is good enough to score the goals to get us into the playoffs let alone automatics. Shaq needs to be replaced with a goal scorer.

Defensively and from an attacking perspective we are missing Coker. I have never rated Binbag-Williams. He is poor on 1v1 situations, only beats his man 50% of the time going forwards and when he does his cross us either floated so there is no pace on the ball for the forwards or it is cut out by the first defender.

Let's get a goal scorer and our season will change.
 
Most of the relevant points concerning the game yesterday have been made. However one issue is causing me some worry. Listening the Essex radio Phil Brown has on more than one occasion stated that he does not know what is going wrong when our display goes from very good to very bad during a 15 minute break. So what does happen in the two dressing rooms at this time. Is one set of management taking positive step to rectify and improve any performances whilst the other appears to do very little to adapt to any possible changes in the opponents set up. Mr Brown gives the impression he is a master tactician, but on what I have seen home and away I have grave doubts on his ability to change anything in order to combat the tactics of the opposing manager
 
IloveShrimp said:
I don't know what goes on every 1/2 time when we are a goal up, all I know is the team comes out in the 2nd half with a completely different mental attitude (seems to be panic mode of 'we must hold on at all costs, get rid as quick as we can).

QUOTE]

WESTY_SUFC said:
This is worryingly so true.
Click to expand...

I pointed out in my post match ramblings about this..it wasn't even at half time....When we scored...PB was hollering over at Bentley to "slow it down" before Exeter had even restarted...immediately we go a goal up we surrender any momentum we have and hand it over to the opposition by being ultra cautious and settling into lets hang on to what we have mode.

1st half we looked to attack, were positive and Exeter barely had a chance (barring 2 glaring defensive howlers)...second half we tried to hold what we had, and Exeter dominated and should have won the game. Co-incidence? I think not!
Click to expand...
 
Personally, I don't get that we try and hold on to leads. As of last weekend, we had more shots than any other team, it just doesn't sit with this "defend at all costs" mentality that some people seem to think we have.

There is however a huge worry as to why we can't seem to score goals. Yesterday we should have been at least 3 up at half time.

I was pleased Barnard had a start. His effort couldn't be faulted (unlike Coulthirst's at times!) but in terms of the striking performance, it was unfortunately remarkably similar; he had the chances, yet couldn't score. Barnard has a good scoring record at this level, so we know he can do it, unlike Shaq who has it all to do ahead of him, but is it really a case of them both being just a bit unlucky? And what needs to change?

We were so, so dominant in the first half and scored a good goal. Worrall was a breath of fresh air and we pulled Exeter this way and that. Yet again, worringly, they still had a few decent chances and in terms of their possession, it was disproportionate.

For this we have to look at the defence. White was definitely missed whilst Thompson and Prosser didn't have their best games. This is the problem with the pair of them; when they are on the top of their game they are good enough, but their usual, average performance, which is more often than not what they deliver, isn't quite good enough.

Exeter made a change at half time and we couldn't seem to cope with that, which is another worry. They aren't world beaters, have a load of kids, are under an embargo yet still deserved a draw. These are games that we should be looking to win if we have any aspirations of going up at all.

I didn't enjoy yesterdays game and made the comment walking out that it felt more like a Sturrock draw, especially in the second half. On reflection, it felt more like it did when Brown first took over. Could have won, should have won, didn't.

Ratings

Bentley - 7.5 - Didn't do a lot wrong

Leonard - 6 - Didn't have his shooting boots on and is better in midfield.
Williams - 6 - Good in first half, not in second. For some reason he stopped linking up with the midfield.
Thompson - 6 - Positionally not in the right place on a lot of occasions.
Prosser - 6 - Whilst he is a valuable squad member, it concerns me that we see hm as our senior defender. He isn't consistent enough.

Worrall - 8 - MOM - Easily the best player on the pitch in the first half but again, strangely awol in the second. Good goal though and some very good crosses.
Deegan - 7 - Not as tenacious as he has been but still put in a good shift with the exception of one comedy crossfield pass.
Payne - 7 - Again, not as effective as he has been before.
Timlin - 7.5 - Good to see him back, great energy.
Atkinson - 7 - Sublime skill for the goal.

Barnard - 7.5 - Could have had a couple on another day.Good effort and deserves a run.

Subs -

Weston - 5 - Failed to get involved
Corr - 6 - Made no impact
Hurst - 6 - Not on as long but made even less impact
 
interesting to hear Brown on the radio saying that he was pleased with the changes he made but he will make changes again for Newport.......FFS why!!!! unless someone is injured or suspended let this line up have a couple of games to settle down......but oh no the Tango Man is going to change it again,will he ever make his ****ing mind up and settle for a line up and keep to it....he must know which one he wants and everyone keeps telling me he is a top notch manager and got Hull in to the premership blah,blah,blah so come on Mr Brown make your mind up now please
 
northlincsshrimper1 said:
Most of the relevant points concerning the game yesterday have been made. However one issue is causing me some worry. Listening the Essex radio Phil Brown has on more than one occasion stated that he does not know what is going wrong when our display goes from very good to very bad during a 15 minute break. So what does happen in the two dressing rooms at this time. Is one set of management taking positive step to rectify and improve any performances whilst the other appears to do very little to adapt to any possible changes in the opponents set up. Mr Brown gives the impression he is a master tactician, but on what I have seen home and away I have grave doubts on his ability to change anything in order to combat the tactics of the opposing manager
Click to expand...

Well said. We have Brown, Penney and Coughlan watching the match - and yet we seem unable to switch tactics and/or make the right substitutions.
 
Rattus Norvegicus said:
Well said. We have Brown, Penney and Coughlan watching the match - and yet we seem unable to switch tactics and/or make the right substitutions.
Click to expand...

Thats because all three of them are of the same mindset - get in front and hold on. The trouble is we are not good enough to hold on. And if we don't get in front then there is no plan b, other than lump it.
 
I like Brown

but....

I think he does not have a clue what our best line-up is. Change was needed no doubt but the amount of changes he made wasn't needed.
 
Again I agree with Northlincsshrimper1. From what I am seeing the players either do not understand what their collectives roles are second half or as I suspect they do not agree to the "Sit on the lead" mentality they are being sent out to perform.

Time and again they come out looking nervous and in most cases a yard or two off the inevitable increased pace of the losing side. I thought Barney & Worral had a great game and looked passionate with the exception of Deegan & Timlin who were OK the rest of the lads looked VERY NERVOUS & some in my opinion dis-interested
 
flapjack said:
interesting to hear Brown on the radio saying that he was pleased with the changes he made but he will make changes again for Newport.......FFS why!!!! unless someone is injured or suspended let this line up have a couple of games to settle down......but oh no the Tango Man is going to change it again,will he ever make his ****ing mind up and settle for a line up and keep to it....he must know which one he wants and everyone keeps telling me he is a top notch manager and got Hull in to the premership blah,blah,blah so come on Mr Brown make your mind up now please
Click to expand...

He has settled with line ups and kept to them, hence the endless posts on "why is he persisting with Weston/Hurst/Shaq". Now he has changed it and he's going to keep the positive and change what didn't work, or maybe those who didn't follow their instructions? I feel Phil can't win with some people
 
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