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442 vs 451 stats

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mrsblue said:
So if Phil played Timlin and White up top in 442 you would be happy with that ?
Click to expand...

Now your arguing against your own argument!!

I'm not the one who's obsessed with 442 at all costs... you are

If you had your way PB would have to maintain 442 during a penalty shoot out:winking:
 
No brainer for me on 4-4-2.

All our successful sides have played that way.

Also, if you play 2 guys up top, that then occupies the two centre-halves meaning the full-backs have to tighten closer to them, creating space down the flanks.

4-5-1 works only if the midfielders get ahead of the striker and create problems from deep, which doesn't happen under PB, because they aren't generally encouraged to get too far up the pitch.

Also, as a centre-half, if you only have one fella to mark, you know that's where the ball's coming, so it's so much easier to read the game.

In short : 4-5-1 = nuts!
 
As long as the 'inside left' is well placed to receive the ball from the 'right half' then I think we'll do ok !
 
JoshC said:
There are far too many variables in football, the basic starting formation can not be the sole justification for a win / loss it just doesn't work that way. Why are people always looking into the past for an angle, just enjoy each game and the fact that we are in a position where no matter what happens between now and the end of the season we are guaranteed some sort of drama and excitement.
Click to expand...

Firstly MANY THANKS to Manor. Great work.

While i agree with the point you are making Josh i was trying to be as scientific as possible with an observation.
 
AndyT said:
No brainer for me on 4-4-2.

All our successful sides have played that way.

Also, if you play 2 guys up top, that then occupies the two centre-halves meaning the full-backs have to tighten closer to them, creating space down the flanks.

4-5-1 works only if the midfielders get ahead of the striker and create problems from deep, which doesn't happen under PB, because they aren't generally encouraged to get too far up the pitch.

Also, as a centre-half, if you only have one fella to mark, you know that's where the ball's coming, so it's so much easier to read the game.

In short : 4-5-1 = nuts!
Click to expand...


Agree with every word .


Shhhhhs don't tell Rigsby he ain't got a clue about the game !:stunned:
 
mrsblue said:
Agree with every word .


Shhhhhs don't tell Rigsby he ain't got a clue about the game !:stunned:
Click to expand...

Oh wise one perhaps you could be so kind as to educate me over a pre match pint in the Spread on Saturday. Be very interesting to hear your theories not just on football but also, Bin Laden is still alive is another I would love to hear.
Or will you be marking the team performance from your sofa?
 
* ORM * said:
Firstly MANY THANKS to Manor. Great work.

While i agree with the point you are making Josh i was trying to be as scientific as possible with an observation.
Click to expand...
To be fair i didn't really make it clear but it wasn't really your initial post that my comment was aimed at, more the people using these sort of statistics to push their opinions on everyone in every thread as if formations are the only effect on the outcome of a match.
 
manor15 said:
4-5-1
P 20 W 9 D 6 L 5 F 20 A 16 GD +2 Pts 33 Pts per game 1.65 Goals for per game 1 Goals against per game 0.85

4-4-2
P 20 W 10 D 6 L 4 F 28 A 19 GD +9 Pts 36 Pts per game 1.8 Goals for per game 1.4 Goals against per game 0.95

So if we'd stuck with 4-5-1 all season we'd be on 66 points, so still in 5th but 3 points worse off, and with a GD of +6
If we'd played 4-4-2 all season we'd be on 72 points, so above Bury in 4th but still 2 points behind Wycombe and on a goal difference of +18
In reality it's 5th with 69 points and +12

Obviously it's all theory and saying "we'd be 4th" doesn't consider who we'd take the extra points off etc, but seems a much smaller difference than I expected, the only major difference being how many we've scored

I'd forgotten that we played 4-4-2 at the start of the season as well for a couple of games which is something worth remembering

5 of our last 6 games earlier in the season in the reverse fixtures were 4-5-1 (with the exception of Bury which was 4-4-2 with Corr and Barnard up top), in those 5 we recorded W 1 D 1 L 3 (F 3 A 6) with 2 of the losses coming away from home. That would work out at an estimate of 5.8 points (let's say 6) from the last 6 games... :'(
Click to expand...

And I would argue luck, red cards, other teams form, and other factors would eliminate the points difference between the two.

In other words... There is nothing between the two.
 
If 442 is proven to be so much better how comes we slid down the form table when we switched to it.

Even after back to back wins over the last 10 games we only got 15 points and sit 10th in the form table, thats not promotion form.

I prefer us to play 442, but it hasnt been shown to be the be all and end all, or we wouldnt have lost pace with the top 3. ITs certainly led to more goals, but not more points.

It was never as simple as that.
 
Jam_Man said:
If 442 is proven to be so much better how comes we slid down the form table when we switched to it.

Even after back to back wins over the last 10 games we only got 15 points and sit 10th in the form table, thats not promotion form.

I prefer us to play 442, but it hasnt been shown to be the be all and end all, or we wouldnt have lost pace with the top 3. ITs certainly led to more goals, but not more points.

It was never as simple as that.
Click to expand...
It is according to certain people...
 
Don't forget we've finished a fair number of games with 4-4-1 !
 
I think the real point with a 451 at home is that it makes it very hard to penetrate an away team that sets out for a point from kick off unless you have two creative midfielders on fire and a lone striker of class. I accept that 442 is not the Messiah, just a very naught boy but it sends out an altogether different message.

Contrast that with 451 away and let's use Cambridge as an example. Home teams are set up differently for formation and tactics. You can afford to have someone like Corr in that lone role playing with his back to goal, winning the ball and holding it up for support which he received on the day both from Payne and others.

Now onto one of life's mysteries. Why do teams feel the need for different tactics home and away?
 
Totally agree.

What I loved about Webb & Tilly's successful sides is they were set up the same way for every match.

4 good defenders, a tackler and passer in the middle, two wide players and a provider (back to goal) and a finisher.

Same set-up and let the opposition worry about us.

Some of the performances were sublime, particularly one I remember away at Reading where we won 4-2 and could have been about 8. Absolute quality!
 
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