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Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

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Supernaut said:
I wonder if Labour sense an amazing opportunity here - if they could somehow force a GE, make their main election manifesto pledge the reversal of the Leave vote, and then won the GE by a sizeable majority, they'd have to power to attempt to negotiate said reversal. The problem they have is how to overturn the referendum vote. They'd have to mobilise much of the 25% who didn't vote and also make sure they voted for them, or somehow turn Scotland red again.
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It does raise an interesting question that I've been thinking about for a couple of days. I wonder how many tories who voted Remain now wish they had voted Labour at the last GE. Yes we would have Millibland as PM, but do they consider that worse than the vote on Thursday?
 
Gremlin said:
The media. For example:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407
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Vatican City - must be divine intervention!
The reports says they will be removing any fraudulent signees so the end result should be real (when you sign these things you then have to reply to the email they send you - so the average person would not bother to create extra signatures, but a techhead could do).
The petition system was set up by the current government and is now part of our democratic process so I imagine that cases of fraud on this would be a serious criminal offence.
 
Great photo in the Sunday Times of Corbyn on his old bike....The caption...He should have used performance enhancing drugs.
 
Another Surrey Shrimper said:
This does make sense. But is a gamble. 3.2 million have signed the 2nd referendum petition and Farage himself had said in May that if Leave narrowly lost he would campaign for a 2nd referendum (not that he has a mandate to claim anything (and the petition signees may eclipse the UKIP voters soon)) and the Leave campaign is backtracking on some of its claims. not accepting the result may seem undemocratic, but in other ways less so. Corbyn's way is too accept the result. Without him there could be a different approach and the membership may go for that but it may alienate the Northern towns more.
SNP want to Remain, if putting Independence on the backfoot could be the way to stay in the EU that may be possible.

Interesting suggestion but lots of ifs and buts.
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I might sign this petition myself. Would be grate if we had to re run the referendum. Unfortunately for you whinging bad losers it won't happen. Why because The Tories would be risking their guaranteed victory at the next GE.

17 million voters is about the same amount it took Labour to gain in the last 2 elections. Those same Labour voters would now turn to UKIP as the people of Sunderland have already promised (todays press) should we not respect the result. Remember in England and Wales, the only place Labour has any support, the vote to leave was much higher than 52%. So if just 10m out of the 17 voted UKIP they would win a GE

On that note why don't we have it like a GE rather than the National total, have per constituency.
 
If they try and re-run the referendum, there would be riots everywhere. There was never any stipulation beforehand that it had to be by a bigger majority. They lost, the people have spoken, get on with it.
 
rigsby said:
I might sign this petition myself. Would be grate if we had to re run the referendum. Unfortunately for you whinging bad losers it won't happen. Why because The Tories would be risking their guaranteed victory at the next GE.

17 million voters is about the same amount it took Labour to gain in the last 2 elections. Those same Labour voters would now turn to UKIP as the people of Sunderland have already promised (todays press) should we not respect the result. Remember in England and Wales, the only place Labour has any support, the vote to leave was much higher than 52%. So if just 10m out of the 17 voted UKIP they would win a GE

On that note why don't we have it like a GE rather than the National total, have per constituency.
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Rather amusingly the petition was set up by a Leave voter who assumed Leave were going to lose so set it up in advance of the result.
Politics in this country over the last few days couldn't become any more bizarre if you had written it yourself!
 
THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK said:
If they try and re-run the referendum, there would be riots everywhere. There was never any stipulation beforehand that it had to be by a bigger majority. They lost, the people have spoken, get on with it.
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Why would they riot and why would they fear running it again? I mean, as you said, it's about what the people want right? Unless of course something had changed, maybe something that meant voting out wasn't what 'the people' wanted....?
 
South Bank Hank said:
Why would they riot and why would they fear running it again? I mean, as you said, it's about what the people want right? Unless of course something had changed, maybe something that meant voting out wasn't what 'the people' wanted....?
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Of course there will be riots, people are already saying they will on facebook if they renege. The turnout was massive because the vote meant so much to the Country. You can't re-run it because the vote didn't go your way.
 
I suspect that we won't be leaving if what the SNP and others are proposing. But at the moment I'm past careing. Blood sugars are playing up more than the Labour front bench.
 
THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK said:
Of course there will be riots, people are already saying they will on facebook if they renege. The turnout was massive because the vote meant so much to the Country. You can't re-run it because the vote didn't go your way.
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You didn't answer the question though did you. What would the rioters have to fear from re-running the vote anyway? As you say, they only want to reflect "what the people want" and if it's what the people want, the result will be the same, no? Unless it won't. Unless it's not actually what the people really want now certain facts have come out...?
 
South Bank Hank said:
You didn't answer the question though did you. What would the rioters have to fear from re-running the vote? As you say, they only want to reflect "what the people want"... no?
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O.K. I'll answer. The vote was close ish. The remain side would come out with all sorts of new things to sway the vote the other way, obviously, and you know it, that's why you would like a re-run. It wouldn't be hard to tip the vote the other way. So of course, none of the outs want a re-run.
Now I'll ask you a question....Why don't you remains, accept the will of the people?
 
THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK said:
O.K. I'll answer. The vote was close ish. The remain side would come out with all sorts of new things to sway the vote the other way, obviously, and you know it, that's why you would like a re-run. It wouldn't be hard to tip the vote the other way. So of course, none of the outs want a re-run.
Now I'll ask you a question....Why don't you remains, accept the will of the people?
Click to expand...

I'll answer your question but first...

You acknowledge that it wouldn't be hard at all for the Out to become an In. Which means your fear is that the REAL will of the people might well actually be to remain.

Which kind of answers your question...

... When we have a sufficiently certain reflection of the will of the people as, right now, I genuinely don't believe we have one. A 2% margin based on an embarrassingly shoddy campaign (from BOTH sides) where the lies told didn't even last a day past the vote before the retractions began.

My point is if people REALLY want to see the will of the people rather than just smash it through based on a slither of daylight, they wouldn't be afraid of a deeper discovery. For the record, I'd argue the same if the vote had been 48/52 in favour of similar events for the remain campaign.

It's too important.
 
I know a few people who have (stupidly, agreed) regretted voting out as they believed the lie that £350m was going to go to the UK, who didn't even think they leave campaign had a chance of winning.
 
Chris Bryant resigned now too. So that's what, ten members of the shadow cabinet gone in the last 24 hours?

Bryant's statement ended:

"If you refuse to step aside I fear you will go down in history as the man who broke the Labour Party"

For balance, it is worth mentioning that Andy Burnham, one of the few people at the top of the Labour Party anyone has heard of, has backed Corbyn today.

But still. What an utter shambles.
 
Uncle Leo said:
Chris Bryant resigned now too. So that's what, ten members of the shadow cabinet gone in the last 24 hours?

Bryant's statement ended:

"If you refuse to step aside I fear you will go down in history as the man who broke the Labour Party"

For balance, it is worth mentioning that Andy Burnham, one of the few people at the top of the Labour Party anyone has heard of, has backed Corbyn today.

But still. What an utter shambles.
Click to expand...

It could be said that Bryant is one of a handful of people who could go down in history for breaking the Labour Party.
Corbyn STILL has a massive mandate from the membership so MP's who want to persuade him to step aside should do so in private.
Burnham is showing more dignity and it will stand him in good stead.
 
Another Surrey Shrimper said:
Corbyn STILL has a massive mandate from the membership
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Does he though? I know he won the leadership contest comfortably, but that was then, and more recently he's made a massive u-turn on his stance regarding the EU and is now receiving a growing vote of no confidence. At what point will the pig-headed old bugger realise that the party is bigger than him, and do the decent thing.
 
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