Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐
You mean a third bailout fund? Highly likely IMO,as long as there's some restructing of Greek debt involved.
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EU: In or out?
- Thread starter Tangled up in Blue
- Start date
- Status
You mean a third bailout fund? Highly likely IMO,as long as there's some restructing of Greek debt involved.
Swiss Tony
End of the pier show ⭐⭐
You do in Kensington to.
Benfleet A1
Hector Of The House
Of course there will be another payout. It will be like the last two, never to be repaid. Anything to save the Euro ideal that can't be seen to be nothing but a complete failure. Greece should never have been excepted in the first place. Hope the German tax payer has deep pockets.
Bielzibubz
President
I've been banging on in the same vein to all that will listen GHG. Greece will NEVER be left alone to leave the EU and they will NEVER be in a position to pay back even a fraction of the accumulated bail out monies. If the financial heads of the EU had done their due diligence in the first place Greece, and consequently the Eurozone, wouldn't be in the mess they are now as they wouldn't have met the criteria for entry. Or, as is more likely, they did and ignored the financial state Greece was in back in 2002 because all that mattered then, as now, is the progression and growth of the European Superstate.
The EU and all it stands for cannot be seen to have been a failure in any way. Far to much at stake to allow that to happen.
The EU and all it stands for cannot be seen to have been a failure in any way. Far to much at stake to allow that to happen.
Massimo Giovanni
Old Timer⭐⭐
I agree with all this Bb, it is the solution that is the hard bit to work out.
For me the answer is somewhere along the route of the amount of debt owed in total must be cut commensurate with the amount that has been paid after calculating what it would have been at the interest rate that the lenders (Germany etc) paid (2%) rather than what the Greeks paid back at (btw 8-13%) which will lessen the debt BUT the lenders would break even rather than profit on the loans. Next the Greeks need to implement big welfare, social reforms to cut their huge Guv costs. Also required is a willingness by everyday Greeks people to pay their taxes. Some investment by the USA would be good - eastern Med base? small capital ventures based on traditional stuff for export to USA & other expats?
I'm not going to comment on the EU or the Euro or the creation of a EuroState, but solely on Greece. By general consensus of Econonists and polititians Greece is a developed country with an advanced high-income economy, a high quality of life and a very high standard odemocratic and f living. A founding member of the United Nations, Greece was the tenth member to join the European Communities (precursor to the European Union) and has been part of the Eurozone since 2001. It is also a member of numerous other international institutions, including the Council of Europe, NATO,[SUP][a][/SUP] OECD, OSCE and the WTO. Greece, which is one of the world's largest shipping powers, has the largest economy in the Balkans, where it is an important regional investor.
By my reckoning, Greece is not at all a stupid, backward country and it was very much aware of what it was getting itself into in Europe. A lot of what has been written on here makes it sound as if it is a victim and we should feel sorry for it. I agree that a deal needs to be done, but if you borrow, you should repay.
By my reckoning, Greece is not at all a stupid, backward country and it was very much aware of what it was getting itself into in Europe. A lot of what has been written on here makes it sound as if it is a victim and we should feel sorry for it. I agree that a deal needs to be done, but if you borrow, you should repay.
mrsblue
Banned
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2012
- Messages
- 9,419
Well the eurozone prints money at will whilst borrowing to nations who can never repay.
mrsblue
Banned
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- Messages
- 9,419
Massimo Giovanni
Old Timer⭐⭐
The reality is that quantitative easing is regulated and has large effects on other economical factors (inflation, currency exchange, import/exports, national debt etc); it is not done willy nilly anymore than printing sterling by GB is. The decision(S) to lend (not borrow) money to Greece were poorly made as was the whole Euro concept. If you read today's Times article by William Hague (not usually a favorite politico) he writes on Britain's refusal to join the Euro project in the last millennium; and that the dangers were clear and present at the concept: yet Germany and France still pushed and bullied it through.
Bielzibubz
President
I've highlighted quite a significant point but not the 'everyday' bit. I saw on the news this morning that as of 2012 (and there's no indication anything has changed) the Greek economy/government was losing somewhere in the region of 10 billion Euro's a year in combined corporate and personal tax evasion and has been for many many years. It's a fundamental reason why it was in such a state in 2002.
No Greek government for a generation or more has been willing to tackle the issue despite the lost annual revenue being more than enough to repay whatever loan interest payments it has. For years each successive government has buried their collective head in the sand and ignored the problem. The lost revenue also goes some way to explaining why they have no welfare state as such for the poor to fall back on in hard times.
maninasuitcase
President
I see that the EU are abolishing roaming charges on data within its borders. One of its plus points is that the EU is big enough to get a fair deal for all its citizens, for example the purchasing of flights and cars are the same price where ever they are bought now. In the past, we in the UK would have been charged more for flights as it was deemed that we could afford to pay more.
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Looks like your post was a deal closer given the lack of discernible life since on this thread.:smiles:
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Can't see why so many of you are getting so het up about Greece.At least the UK has not contributed to either of the EU bailout funds to Greece.
Benfleet A1
Hector Of The House
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐
The UK has certainly contributed nothing to the second bailout fund.
Benfleet A1
Hector Of The House
Wrong yet again. The UK make contributions to the IMF which means part of that would have gone towards the 2nd bailout.
30-love.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2104701/Greece-crisis-UK-contribute-1bn-second-110bn-bailout.html
Silly me, forgot the link.
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Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Those are indirect contributions and are nothing like the substantial amounts contributed by Germany,France and even Spain.
See Tuesday's Times for their report.Can't be arsed to find the link.
callan
Striker
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 3,603
None the less it is a contribution, something you maintained hadn't happened.
seems to me you have been proved wrong and are just trying to worm your way out of it.
Tangled up in Blue
Certified Senior Citizen⭐
The Times article I cited (behind a paywall) didn't even mention the UK's contribution,presumably since it was so negligble compared with that of Greece's Euro partners.
Incidentally, the IMF holds only about 10% of Greece's debt.
http://www.bloombergbriefs.com/content/uploads/sites/2/2015/01/MS_Greece_WhoHurts.pdf
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Massimo Giovanni
Old Timer⭐⭐
There has been lots on here and other media about Greek failure to tackle it's budget and poor, poor regulation and tax issues: BUT the EU has been audited many many times AND NEVER have those accounts been signed off or publicised. On occasions the auditors have walked away from the task because of the corruption they found at Brussells but weren't allowed to record. In short the EU are "pot calling kettle black" and a classic example of "do as I say not how I do".
As is stands = this point in time = OUT OUT OUT!
As is stands = this point in time = OUT OUT OUT!
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