EU: In or out?

Massimo Giovanni · Jul 27, 2015

"Why?" asks TUIB.................

The UK is a net contributor that puts in more than it gets out...........Yes?
Germans are fed up with paying even more than the UK and won't be happy if we negotiate so we pay less and others then have to make up the shortfall, Germans are fed up with seeming to be EU cash cow; hence Mrs Merkel is unlikely to give sanction to any real changes=harder for Cammy to sell any deal here (UK) or in EU?.........Yes?
French are pushing for opposite of UK's wants, they want MORE political intergration and also their politicos are, by nature & habit anti English (but pro Scots) so they won't want the changes the UK wants?................Yes?

A harder, weaker deal make an OUT vote more likely when Merkal and Holland need to get re-elected IMO.

Benfleet A1 · Jul 27, 2015

Massimo Giovanni said:
"Why?" asks TUIB.................

The UK is a net contributor that puts in more than it gets out...........Yes?
Germans are fed up with paying even more than the UK and won't be happy if we negotiate so we pay less and others then have to make up the shortfall, Germans are fed up with seeming to be EU cash cow; hence Mrs Merkel is unlikely to give sanction to any real changes=harder for Cammy to sell any deal here (UK) or in EU?.........Yes?
French are pushing for opposite of UK's wants, they want MORE political intergration and also their politicos are, by nature & habit anti English (but pro Scots) so they won't want the changes the UK wants?................Yes?

A harder, weaker deal make an OUT vote more likely when Merkal and Holland need to get re-elected IMO.

I understood everything you said there. It makes perfect sense and was written without any favour or political bias. Just one small point, don't waste your time with answering anything posted by the Plastic Commie, if it differs from it's opinion you will either be ignored, directed to yet another tedious left wing bias link or subjected to a meaningless yarn (or is that yawn) of how he once met some anti-hero who nobody could care a toss for while he was attending one of the many schools of learning paid for by the British taxpayer before he buggered off to snipe from afar.

I had to learn the hard way, I'd save you the same fate.

Ricky Otto · Jul 28, 2015

I'm not convinced this is as clear cut as TUIB thinks, I initially voted in on this poll but I must confess I am a lot less certain of this stance now and don't think it's beyond impossible that I will change it. I think many on the left are blinkered into thinking this is a right wing/left wing issue because they are so opposed to UKIP. I consider myself on the left, not the extreme left but the left nevertheless and don't think a vote to exit is a right wing vote.

callan · Jul 28, 2015

kingSHRIMPER said:
I'm not convinced this is as clear cut as TUIB thinks, I initially voted in on this poll but I must confess I am a lot less certain of this stance now and don't think it's beyond impossible that I will change it. I think many on the left are blinkered into thinking this is a right wing/left wing issue because they are so opposed to UKIP. I consider myself on the left, not the extreme left but the left nevertheless and don't think a vote to exit is a right wing vote.

I think there is only an element of left vs right born out of Labours stance on not having a referendum in their manifesto despite concerns about the EU.
Having said that the debate has not really got going yet, and I know of several people from the in camp who acknowledge that EU is in need of desperate reform, and are waiting to see what Cameron comes up with.
TUIB in fairness has a myopic view of what's going on the UK as he doesn't live here, relying on the media and a couple of trips home a year to form opinion on the depth of EU feeling.

Tangled up in Blue · Jul 28, 2015

callan said:
I think there is only an element of left vs right born out of Labours stance on not having a referendum in their manifesto despite concerns about the EU.
Having said that the debate has not really got going yet, and I know of several people from the in camp who acknowledge that EU is in need of desperate reform, and are waiting to see what Cameron comes up with.
TUIB in fairness has a myopic view of what's going on the UK as he doesn't live here, relying on the media and a couple of trips home a year to form opinion on the depth of EU feeling.

Whereas you just listen to your Kipper friends and take no notice of what anyone else has to say.:raspberry:

Btw,there is no great depth of anti-EU feeling in the UK-certainly not a majority- (as the 15& of the electorate represented by you and your fellow kippers and the rabid,swivel-eyed Tory right will find out next June or whenever).

Frankly,I'd be suprised if the no vote hit 45%.

Ricky Otto · Jul 28, 2015

Tangled up in Blue said:
Whereas you just listen to your Kipper friends and take no notice of what anyone else has to say.:raspberry:

Btw,there is no great depth of anti-EU feeling in the UK-certainly not a majority- (as the 15& of the electorate represented by you and your fellow kippers and the rabid,swivel-eyed Tory right will find out next June or whenever).

No I don't think there is, although i'd also say there is no great depth of pro-EU feeling either. I think ultimately the out campaign will need to be very convincing purely down to a fear of change and people thinking it's not too bad now and not worth risking. I don't believe staying in the EU will be because the UK is strongly pro EU

rigsby · Jul 28, 2015

callan said:
I think there is only an element of left vs right born out of Labours stance on not having a referendum in their manifesto despite concerns about the EU.
Having said that the debate has not really got going yet, and I know of several people from the in camp who acknowledge that EU is in need of desperate reform, and are waiting to see what Cameron comes up with.
TUIB in fairness has a myopic view of what's going on the UK as he doesn't live here, relying on the media and a couple of trips home a year to form opinion on the depth of EU feeling.

You mean the Guardian. I wonder what old Tangled would think of some expat who claimed he new what the political feeling was back home because he read the Daily Mail whilst quaffing sangria in the sunshine.

callan · Jul 28, 2015

Tangled up in Blue said:
Whereas you just listen to your Kipper friends and take no notice of what anyone else has to say.:raspberry:

Btw,there is no great depth of anti-EU feeling in the UK-certainly not a majority- (as the 15& of the electorate represented by you and your fellow kippers and the rabid,swivel-eyed Tory right will find out next June or whenever).

Frankly,I'd be suprised if the no vote hit 45%.

To be honest Barna its rare you ever say anything of value or that ever contributes....however giving you the chance to prove me wrong....how will staying in Europe benefit me?

ps : I'm interested in what you think....not a link to a website, or some tale of someone you met who thinks its a good thing...I want you to tell me how Europe benefits me directly.

Tangled up in Blue · Jul 28, 2015

callan said:
To be honest Barna its rare you ever say anything of value or that ever contributes....however giving you the chance to prove me wrong....how will staying in Europe benefit me?

ps : I'm interested in what you think....not a link to a website, or some tale of someone you met who thinks its a good thing...I want you to tell me how Europe benefits me directly.

Dunno exactly how EU membership might "benefit" you "directly" but as a fellow British national living in another EU member state it has definitely benefited me and my wife.

"Ask not what your country can do for you" and all that.:smile:

callan · Jul 28, 2015

Tangled up in Blue said:
Dunno exactly how EU membership might "benefit" you "directly" but as a fellow British national living in another EU member state it has definitely benefited me and my wife.

"Ask not what your country can do for you" and all that.:smile:

How does it benefit you?, what do you get out of being in the EU personally?

Massimo Giovanni · Jul 28, 2015

callan said:
How does it benefit you?, what do you get out of being in the EU personally?

Possible quick answers could include;-
(I believe) Ex-pats get a lot from the UK being in EU, reciprocal health care, pensions, and easier work rights for starters. I also believe it is unlikely non doms will be allowed to vote in the referendum!
Worrying time/future for the UK's foreign legions?

callan · Jul 29, 2015

Massimo Giovanni said:
Possible quick answers could include;-
(I believe) Ex-pats get a lot from the UK being in EU, reciprocal health care, pensions, and easier work rights for starters. I also believe it is unlikely non doms will be allowed to vote in the referendum!
Worrying time/future for the UK's foreign legions?

Personally I don't think so....I guess most of our ex pats will be found in the original EEC member states and it would be possible to reach agreements with those members allowing the status quo to be maintained.

Benfleet A1 · Jul 29, 2015

The Chilcote Report will be released quicker than getting a straight answer out of the Patriot. I wouldn't waste any more effort on him. Take the advice that a wise man gave me and ignore him, I feel better already.

Tangled up in Blue · Jul 29, 2015

callan said:
How does it benefit you?, what do you get out of being in the EU personally?

See post 271 in this thread for starters.

Tangled up in Blue · Jul 29, 2015

Genial Harry Grout said:
The Chilcote Report will be released quicker than getting a straight answer out of the Patriot. I wouldn't waste any more effort on him. Take the advice that a wise man gave me and ignore him, I feel better already.

Chilcot surely? :winking:

callan · Jul 30, 2015

Tangled up in Blue said:
See post 271 in this thread for starters.

For starters?....if there's more benefits please tell us what they are.

So far (thanks to Massimo) we have, it's good for you as you work and live abroad....which is all fine and dandy but the vast majority of us will probably choose to stay and live in the UK so no benefit at all for us.

callan · Jul 30, 2015

Genial Harry Grout said:
The Chilcote Report will be released quicker than getting a straight answer out of the Patriot. I wouldn't waste any more effort on him. Take the advice that a wise man gave me and ignore him, I feel better already.

I appreciate that debate with Barrna can be frustrating, and I know you are long overdue an answer from him on why the EU accounts haven't been signed off for 18 years, and with that in mind there is a German lady (very easy on the eye!) in the following link who goes some way to explain why;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nke57roSBbo

Tangled up in Blue · Jul 31, 2015

callan said:
For starters?....if there's more benefits please tell us what they are.

So far (thanks to Massimo) we have, it's good for you as you work and live abroad....which is all fine and dandy but the vast majority of us will probably choose to stay and live in the UK so no benefit at all for us.

The reasons are just too obvious to elucidate.Anyway you'll be voting no, whatever I (or anyone else says), won't you?

:net:Btw,I notice nobody's taken me up on my forecast that the No campaign wouldn't get 45% of the vote in the referendum.

Wouldn't fancy a tenner on it,would you? Loser pays SZ,as usual.

callan · Jul 31, 2015

Tangled up in Blue said:
The reasons are just too obvious to elucidate.Anyway you'll be voting no, whatever I (or anyone else says), won't you?

:net:Btw,I notice nobody's taken me up on my forecast that the No campaign wouldn't get 45% of the vote in the referendum.

Wouldn't fancy a tenner on it,would you? Loser pays SZ,as usual.

At present I would consider myself in the NO camp, and have been for a fair while.

Perhaps if you were to list the pro's that you state are so obvious it might change my mind?

You might also care to watch the link of the debate I put in my post to GHG, add to that the Greek fiasco and current situation in Calais and I think regardless of % of vote its going to be a close call.

I will certainly take your tenner bet.

Tangled up in Blue · Aug 1, 2015

callan said:
At present I would consider myself in the NO camp, and have been for a fair while.

Perhaps if you were to list the pro's that you state are so obvious it might change my mind?

You might also care to watch the link of the debate I put in my post to GHG, add to that the Greek fiasco and current situation in Calais and I think regardless of % of vote its going to be a close call.

I will certainly take your tenner bet.

Glad the bet's on.Remember I have a 100% record against you (so far).:winking:

Like any Socialist, I'm disappointed by what you rightly call the "Greek fiasco" and Germany's intransigence over a change in direction for the Eurozone countries.

If you don't mind, I'd prefer to keep my powder dry (for the the time being), regarding the pro camp case (but remember I voted again Britain joining the EEC in '75 and certainly have strong personal reasons for having changed my mind,many of which MG has touched on).

As far as "the situation in Calais " is concerned, I've long though there should be a EU Foreign Minister to deal with such problems.I'm sure if there were it would be much easier to reach a solution.That goes for the current problems in the Med. too.

EU: In or out?

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