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The EU Referendum

Forums New posts

How are you voting?

  • Leave

    Votes: 58 56.3%

  • Remain

    Votes: 45 43.7%
  • Total voters
    103
  • Poll closed .
Tangled up in Blue said:
Thanks.I see the real figures are:-"A new (Times) poll has suggested more Britons favour leaving the EU over staying in, with 45% supporting “Brexit” compared with 36% against, while a fifth remain undecided

I notice also (quite rightly) that:-"there is an air of caution around published opinion polls in British politics after their failure to predict the 2015 general election result."
Click to expand...

So, it's not 46%. It's 45%.....silly MrsB.

I fear that last paragraph of yours will come back to bite you on the arse BIG time some time in the future.

Little tip........Think, then engage fingers :winking:

No need to thank me :thumbsup:
 
Those figures ought to be shouted loud and far across the EU,
Polls can be wrong BUT the Outs have a lead of a country mile.
 
If this poll is anywhere near correct, then I do wonder what is driving it.

Personally I have been under whelmed by both the in and out campaigns so far.

I suspect that it is not so much Cameron's lacklustre deal driving this, but a totally inept EU in dealing with anything remotely resembling a crisis.
 
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There was an article about the Leave campaign groups on Newsnight last night, especially about the splits within the Leave Labour and UKIP. The biggest problem they have is that of self image and self promotion without a willingness to support mutual aims, and little leadership.
 
Massimo Giovanni said:
There was an article about the Leave campaign groups on Newsnight last night, especially about the splits within the Leave Labour and UKIP. The biggest problem they have is that of self image and self promotion without a willingness to support mutual aims, and little leadership.
Click to expand...

I think there has been a lot made of the Leave campaigns need to have a Political big hitter spear heading the campaign.

Personally I don't think this particularly needs to happen, in the same way that it shouldn't become a left vs right campaign.

Whilst I am sure there are many on the left that will enjoy watching the conservatives at war with themselves, there is of course disagreement on Europe and the EU, across party lines with the notable exception of UKIP and possibly the SNP.

How many from the left on here will hold their noses to support Cameron and vote in all conscience for TTIP, Discrimination, and a cartel of big business?, that's before we get to the question of austerity and how that has been enforced on EU citizens.
 
callan said:
I think there has been a lot made of the Leave campaigns need to have a Political big hitter spear heading the campaign.

Personally I don't think this particularly needs to happen, in the same way that it shouldn't become a left vs right campaign.

Whilst I am sure there are many on the left that will enjoy watching the conservatives at war with themselves, there is of course disagreement on Europe and the EU, across party lines with the notable exception of UKIP and possibly the SNP.

How many from the left on here will hold their noses to support Cameron and vote in all conscience for TTIP, Discrimination, and a cartel of big business?, that's before we get to the question of austerity and how that has been enforced on EU citizens.
Click to expand...

the biggest thing for me is that with the long list of government **** ups, especially over the last few weeks, I wouldn't trust them to be able to manage to re-organise our set up outside of the EU. The fact we have a massively reduced civil service would also be a big barrier to a successful exit. For me the EU is actually a safety net as Cameron would make a hash of trying to leave. If we had a government that was capable there would be a much stronger argument to leave.
 
Another Surrey Shrimper said:
the biggest thing for me is that with the long list of government **** ups, especially over the last few weeks, I wouldn't trust them to be able to manage to re-organise our set up outside of the EU. The fact we have a massively reduced civil service would also be a big barrier to a successful exit. For me the EU is actually a safety net as Cameron would make a hash of trying to leave. If we had a government that was capable there would be a much stronger argument to leave.
Click to expand...


This is a double edged sword, you don't trust the Government to leave yet you do trust them to stay, I'm not really sure how that works.

I would argue that the Civil service would cope much better out of the EU, my departments case load would halve, that's before you get too the amount of rules and regulations that need to be implemented via the EU, in other parts of the Civil service.

I would also be interested to hear why you think the EU acts as a safety net?

Leaving the EU doesn't happen over night, there is a two year exit period, which will bring us in sight of the next GE, at that point you and I are lucky fellows as we can vote the Tories out....as can the rest of us if that's what we want.


How do we go about voting out EU commissioners who are doing a bad job?

This for me is a critical point however bad a government we have, no matter which colour rosette they wear, they share one thing in common they are chosen by the democratic process we have....which means we the people decide who governs and they are accountable to us.

Ultimately however bad the present government is, I see no reason why we as the UK cannot trade and have good relations globally whilst living under our own law and democratic process.
 
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callan said:
This is a double edged sword, you don't trust the Government to leave yet you do trust them to stay, I'm not really sure how that works.

I would argue that the Civil service would cope much better out of the EU, my departments case load would halve, that's before you get too the amount of rules and regulations that need to be implemented via the EU, in other parts of the Civil service.

I would also be interested to hear why you think the EU acts as a safety net?

Leaving the EU doesn't happen over night, there is a two year exit period, which will bring us in sight of the next GE, at that point you and I are lucky fellows as we can vote the Tories out....as can the rest of us if that's what we want.


How do we go about voting out EU commissioners who are doing a bad job?

This for me is a critical point however bad a government we have, no matter which colour rosette they wear, they share one thing in common they are chosen by the democratic process we have....which means we the people decide who governs and they are accountable to us.

Ultimately however bad the present government is, I see no reason why we as the UK cannot trade and have good relations globally whilst living under our own law and democratic process.
Click to expand...

on a practical level they get so much wrong - they can't get their own policies past the Lords or the Courts. Keeping the status quo in my mind is safer than drastic change when you have a government that has shown itself to be so incapable. The two years negotiating the exit would be headed by Cameron and look at his negotiations at staying.
I don't trust him not to **** it up.
 
Another Surrey Shrimper said:
on a practical level they get so much wrong - they can't get their own policies past the Lords or the Courts. Keeping the status quo in my mind is safer than drastic change when you have a government that has shown itself to be so incapable. The two years negotiating the exit would be headed by Cameron and look at his negotiations at staying.
I don't trust him not to **** it up.
Click to expand...

Leaving the EU, I don't think is such a drastic change as you think.

Cameron won't be negotiating an exit (there isn't one to negotiate), in fact you are trusting him to do the opposite.

Keeping the status quo is in my view the worst thing we could be doing, if you believe that things are ok as they are with the EU, with the enforced Austerity of the Greeks, the discriminatory policy which is the Free movement of EU citizens, the abject lack of accountability, TTIP which will be the real start of the privatisation of the NHS,, the shameful response to the current refugee crisis, The Eu's currency bail outs and contracting economy, the inordinate amount of contributions the UK pays and so it goes on.

However beyond that is something more important if we stay, we will not pass onto our children and grand children the democratic rights that we ourselves inherited, what right have we to do that?
 
callan said:
Leaving the EU, I don't think is such a drastic change as you think.

Cameron won't be negotiating an exit (there isn't one to negotiate), in fact you are trusting him to do the opposite.

Keeping the status quo is in my view the worst thing we could be doing, if you believe that things are ok as they are with the EU, with the enforced Austerity of the Greeks, the discriminatory policy which is the Free movement of EU citizens, the abject lack of accountability, TTIP which will be the real start of the privatisation of the NHS,, the shameful response to the current refugee crisis, The Eu's currency bail outs and contracting economy, the inordinate amount of contributions the UK pays and so it goes on.

However beyond that is something more important if we stay, we will not pass onto our children and grand children the democratic rights that we ourselves inherited, what right have we to do that?
Click to expand...

What right do we have / passing on to our children - those points are not exclusive to the EU they are intrenched in everything we do - house prices and availability, cost of university education, schools being run by companies or a gaggle of parents with no experience of running schools, workers rights, the closing of whole industries - these are all major things we are passing on, the set up of the EU is just another on the list.
We don't have democracy - we have a government elected on a manifesto they then ignore and we have no say on the academyisation of our schools, we have a new way of registering voters which means hundreds of thousands drop off the list.
Negotiating to leave will be masses of red tape. We are told how entrenched we are in EU laws and procedures and yet we can drop them all and have no issues putting anything else in their place? In my view all we would do for those two years is deal with the exit. Government and civil service would come to a stand still in all other duties.
It's simple for me - I don't trust Cameron to be able to organise an exit. It would be a shambles. He doesn't even want to do it. He has referendums that he is convinced he can win, no plan for if he loses.
 
Tangled up in Blue said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35515408

Just seen UKIP's only MP on the Marr show trying to explain why he supports one out campaign and the party leader supports another.

At least when one of these campaigns is designated the official out campaign, one of them will have backed the winner.

You couldn't make it up.:hilarious:

Shades of the Judean People's Front.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHHitXxH-us
Click to expand...


I think there are something like 48 different movements championing a leave vote.

Personally I think we should all get behind the Angela Merkel one, as she is single handedly doing a brilliant job in convincing not only voters here but elsewhere that the EU truly is a crock of ****.:smile:
 
callan said:
I think there are something like 48 different movements championing a leave vote.

Personally I think we should all get behind the Angela Merkel one, as she is single handedly doing a brilliant job in convincing not only voters here but elsewhere that the EU truly is a crock of ****.:smile:
Click to expand...

Yes,who knows? Even Peter Bone's Go lot might get the so important official designation.After all, UKIP's leader supports it.:smile:
 
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Cammy informs the masses these camps could end up in Dover if we leave the EU !

Being fair Dover is a dump so would hardly make any difference!

Cammy conceding our borders cannot be controlled!

Dumb stuff from the ex public schoolboy.
 
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