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Thread: West Stand idiots

  
  1. #61
    Super Moderator Jam_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Up the Shrimpers View Post
    Apparently according to the Southend Evening Echo report it sounds like the Gillingham fan was arrested first for being drunk and then they found the smoke bomb on him. It can be a custodial sentence for trying to get a smoke bomb into a football ground.

    http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/1467...nited_stadium/
    I walked past as it happened, I dont know what they did to arrest him first, but they were searching every person going in at that point.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jam_Man View Post
    I walked past as it happened, I dont know what they did to arrest him first, but they were searching every person going in at that point.
    Ok must have been a different person, as that Evening Echo report states the Gillingham fan was arrested inside the ground.

  3. #63
    Super Moderator Jam_Man's Avatar
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    I didnt see the actual search and arrest but they were with him outside with him in cuffs and I heard a steward saying they caught someone trying to get in. Im sure its the same guy or they would have said two people.

    Whilst the article says inside the ground I think they just mean on the property as the actual charges were attempting to gain entrance so pretty sure it was as he was trying to get in.

    He was later charged with being drunk trying to enter a designated sports ground at a time during the period of a designated sporting event.

    Randall was also charged with having a smoke grenade while trying to enter a designated sports ground at a time during the period of a designated sporting event

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jam_Man View Post
    He was later charged with being drunk trying to enter a designated sports ground at a time during the period of a designated sporting event.
    Blimey, isnt that like 80% of all adults before a football game?
    Who's this Rorschach guy and why is he so good at drawing pictures of my Dad beating me?

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napster View Post
    Blimey, isnt that like 80% of all adults before a football game?
    That may explain the low attendances.

  6. #66
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    This is the analysis, below, of the law by Alison Gurden, one of the Football Supporters Federation's go to barristers, it is a bit wordy but I think it clarifies the law nicely and lays out the consequences of breaking the law.

    As you can see the maximum penalty is three months imprisonment, and it has been frequently used.

    Without going into the pros and cons, that's been discussed at length, the fact remains that the possession and/or discharge of pyrotechnic devices in football grounds is specifically against the law as it currently stands and those guilty of contravening that law should expect that the powers that be will be looking to enforce such law. They can't say they haven't been warned.


    FOOTBALL FANS, SMOKE BOMBS AND FLARES –FACT SHEET
    What is the law governing smoke bombs and flares at football matches?
    The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985
    .
    It is on offence for a person to enter or attempt to enter a football ground while in possession of a flare, smoke bomb or firework. The sentence for these offences can be as much as three months in prison, and in many cases, fans who have no previous convictions are being given prison sentences for attempting to enter a football ground with a smoke bomb in their pocket as the courts take these offences very seriously.
    There are two different offences (1) possession in the football ground; and (2) possession while attempting to enter. Although logically, attempting to enter a football ground seems to be less culpable than a fan who has managed to get the smoke bomb, flare or firework into the football ground, in real terms the courts do not consider one offence to be more serious than the other. Fans searched prior to entering the football ground and found to be in possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb, have still been given custodial sentences.

    What does 'attempting to enter' a football ground mean?
    The courts have decided that 'attempting to enter' means much more than a person who is searched at the turnstiles. Fans have been given a prison sentence for carrying a smoke bomb in their pocket when exiting the train station closest to the football ground, or when walking through the car park on the way to the football ground. A court is likely to decide that a fan who is in possession of a ticket and is close to the ground is ‘attempting to enter’.

    Is it more serious to carry a flare or a firework instead of a smoke bomb?
    Although a firework or flare may be seen as more dangerousthan a smoke bombto most people, the courts do not seem to distinguish between them. Fans have been sentenced to three months in prison for carrying a smoke bomb, without having actually let it off.

    What is a firework?
    Even a sparkler falls within thedefinition of firework, as do bangers and anything else that has a Firework Standard logo on it.

    What is a smoke bomb?
    Anything which emits smoke or visible gas, even something which is home made.

    Will a conviction for possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb result in a football banning order?
    It is highly likely that the court will impose a football banning order on a fan who is convicted of possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb at a football match. The very nature of the offence means thatthe prosecution are likely to be able to persuade the court that the offence is football related, and that it is necessary to impose the order to prevent the offence happening again.

    How long will the Football Banning Order last?
    Most football banning orders imposed by a court after a conviction for a football related offence are for 3years. This does not only prevent the fan from attending football matches for the next 3years, but can prevent them from entering the town of their football team on matchdays, and require them to hand their passport to the Police when the England or Wales national team are playing overseas(as appropriate). A football banning order will show up on a Criminal Records Bureau checksand may prevent a fan from obtaining a visa to travel to countries such as the USA, or working in certain professions, such as working with children.
    In addition, football clubs have issued life bans to fans who have been convicted of possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb, meaning that even once the football banning order has expired, you may still be banned by your club.

    What is the law on the carrying of flares, smoke bombs and fireworks for people aged under 18?
    The Fireworks Regulations Act 2004
    In addition to the above law, it is also an offence for a person under the age of 18 to be found carrying a firework in a public place. Smoke bombs have the Firework Standard label on them and will be classed as a firework. This doesn't just apply to people under 18 going to football matches but applies to all under 18 year olds when they are out in public places such as the park or town centre. The police can issue an 80 fixed penalty notice to anyone under the age of 18 found in possession of a firework in a public place.

    Is it an offence for an adult to have a firework in their possession if they are not going to a match?
    No, it is not illegal for a person over 18 years to possess a firework, flare or smoke bomb, but it is illegal for a person over 18 years to let off the firework, flare or smoke bomb in a public place. A person over the age of 18 cannot legally be arrested for being in possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb, other than when entering or attempting to enter a football match. For instance, the arrest of a football fan at a service station for possession of a smoke bomb in their car is an unlawful arrest unless the fan admits to the police officer that they intended to take the firework, flare or smoke bomb into the football ground later that day.

    Be warned that even though fans may not think that having a smoke bomb or flare in their pocket is a serious offence, the police and football club take it very seriously and even a fan with no previous convictions faces a real risk of going to prison.
    Spread the word to your friends and fellow fans...

    Our thanks to Alison Gurden, Barrister, for providing the information above.
    First game under the Friday night lights at the Hall, 25/3/66 England Amateurs 3, Scotland Amateurs 3.

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  7. #67
    Super Moderator Ricey's Avatar
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    A sentence of upto 3 months in prison for bringing a smoke bomb into a football stadium. Is it really going to prison for a bit of blue smoke?

  8. #68
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    Will see what the Gills fan ends up with. Either way I just dont see why people risk it just because "it looks really cool".

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricey View Post
    A sentence of upto 3 months in prison for bringing a smoke bomb into a football stadium. Is it really going to prison for a bit of blue smoke?
    Can be, and has been.
    Usually coupled with a banning order for three years, and one or two clubs have imposed their own sine die bans.

    On top of that, probably for particular interest for the younger ones maybe, or for anyone thinking of a career that requires a clean DBS check a conviction would appear on a DBS check.
    Additionally, if that person then fancies a trip to the USA it would also disbar them, at the very least, from using the Visa Waiver scheme resulting in a nice trip for an interview at the American Embassy; it could well result in the USA refusing entry, they seem to be, for a country that allows people to run around with assault rifles, strangely reticent to let in any foreign nationals who have played around with explosive devices or their ilk.

    Overkill? Maybe, but that's another debate.

    As the law stands these are the potential penalties, as you say, worth it for a bit of blue smoke for a couple of minutes?

    As Clint Eastwood playing Dirty Harry famously said, ‘You've got to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?’
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  10. #70
    Super Moderator Jam_Man's Avatar
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    Yeah but it looked cool didnt it.

  11. #71

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    Just to clarify for those wondering, I can confirm that no-one from TBV was involved with this incident, nor do we condone the actions of this individual. A couple of regular posters on here have alerted me to this thread, and there have been a few interesting comments so far. Just thought I'd quickly respond to a few of the posts made so far with my thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rootshallbloke View Post
    Good post and I agree that W block do really help the atmosphere at RH. The big question though, the nobheads that do this lurk in that block and I understand that those around them are loath to offer them up to Security when a flare or smoke bomb gets let off. So how do we stop them consistently ignoring the fact that they are hurting the club? In times past the most effective way for a nuisance to be controlled in the West was by someone having a 'strong' word with them, normally without force being necessary. Little chance of that happening now maybe.
    The club place an element of trust in our own fans, and unfortunately a very, very, very small minority of our fans disrespected that trust on Saturday. For this incident in particular, I did not see what had happened, as I was celebrating the goal. I would imagine that for many others this would be the case as well, and this does make identifying who it was very difficult. Another factor to take into consideration is that, as you say, not many fans would be willing to "grass up" a fellow fan to the club. I will make sure that some form of message is put out over the next few days with regards to this issue, as we cannot, as a club, afford to run the risk of getting fined for repeat incidents.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingSHRIMPER View Post
    Yeah it is hard to know the situation when you don't sit in that area of the ground. If you are guy who has come to the football to have a few beers and enjoy yourself and sing your heart out without doing anything that would cause the club trouble then should you be expected to police the fans that are idiots? And maybe get some lip or started on for your efforts? For me that area needs sensible but firm stewarding.
    A very valid point - to add to that real quick, even if someone did step up, one voice can only go so far, and even then sometimes that's not enough to prevent something from happening. I am aware that TBV do try to do what we can within the immediate area of where they are located, however this can sometimes unfortunately fall on deaf ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    If it carries on I think the club will consider shutting w block. Those with season tickets will have to find another seat. Would be a huge shame as the majority of singing comes from there but I would agree with the club if it meant we avoided fines.

    Been mentioned before but perhaps those in w block should let the club know who it is?
    I do fear that in a worst case scenario, the club may consider this, which would be a huge shame for the genuine fans who constantly sing their hearts out in that block. TBV have worked hard in the past to build links with the club, and it's a huge shame that 1 individual has taken it upon themselves to tarnish the reputation of the fans who really try their hardest week in and week out to improve the atmosphere at Roots Hall, just for 30-60 seconds of smoke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricey View Post
    By all means get tanked up have a bit of 'bantz' with the away fans and sing up! It's all about being that 12th man and giving the team that extra boost because we bloody need it at the moment!
    THIS. TBV was set up for this exact reason, being the 12th man of SUFC, getting behind the team and supporting the players in both a positive and family friendly way. Incidents like the one on Saturday are the absolute last thing TBV want.

    Please do not judge or berate the whole block, just because of the stupid actions of one individual - one individual's stupid actions does not represent the whole block. 99% of that block are there because they want to be part of the atmosphere, and to get behind the team week in and week out - please do not let the actions of a very, very small minority of idiots tarnish the great work that the large majority of individuals in that block do each and every match. A huge thanks to Cockle43 for posting this information about the laws of pyro in football stadiums - I won't quote the whole post as it's quite a lengthly post, however if you do have a few spare moments it is well worth a read for those who don't consider incidents like this "a big deal". For 30-60 seconds of smoke, it really isn't worth running the risks of the possible repercussions that you could be facing - to once again reiterate my earlier point, no-one involved with TBV was involved in this incident, and TBV most certainly do not condone the actions of this individual.
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  12. #72
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    Whilst I don't condone the actions of this lad I will admit to being caught by the police climbing over the wall at Roots Hall after a few drinks.

    A custodial sentence would have been fair enough but the *******s made me go back and watch the second half.
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  13. #73

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    And I thought the bar was at the back of the West....not in the North-West corner....clearly delusional after a couple of dry sherries
    DlPaBllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll's

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egbert Moon View Post
    The W block is a disgrace to the club
    Every stand will have a few divs. W Block is no different. The bulk of people go there as we love the club and we want to try and get behind the side and create a bit of atmosphere. I was in there on Saturday with my Dad (64) and my son (6).

    We are not throwing smoke bombs or attacking away fans. Like many other we just want to watch football with a bit of atmosphere. The game is rarely good enough to just sit and watch so for me a bit of a singsong and banter makes the day that more special.

  15. #75

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    Maybe, the kids who are carrying out the smoke bombs do not come on shrimperszone, and thus may not know of the 3 months inside legal consequence. Maybe the club should put up a big notice informing anyone caught letting of a smoke bomb could receive up to 3 months inside with the help of the club's evidence, THEN, they might think twice about letting it off.I for one find no satisfaction for it, and I hate it when it gets right up my hooter.SNR.

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