By-elections

Shrimpers are Magic said:

You sound like a very bittter man.
None so blind than those who will not see, and all that.

Click to expand...

Not bitter at all I'm happy go lucky. But I'm passionate about women, politics, music and to a lessor extent football.

I'm not bitter about this I'm incredulous.


None so blind as them that can't see. Ok then, what from the list above are policies or actions that you support?

Massimo Giovanni said:

Sorry Phil but I have amended your post. The lack of a credible opposition is destroying proper government. JC needs to face up, man up, shut the feck up and GO..................and soon.

Click to expand...

That's your opinion Jim and you're fully entitled to it.Sorry but I don't agree.

Shrimpers are Magic said:

Yes but they've turned their backs on Blair remember - as have you.

Click to expand...

I turned my back on Blair after Clause 4 was dropped-way before Iraq and even the 97 election.

Another Surrey Shrimper said:

The way I see it is Corbyn doesn't have the access to be as bad as May is being.

He didn't have access to info on a Trident misfire to hold back from Parliament, he didn't have his fingers on the purse strings to withdraw £4.6 billion from social care, he didn't have the opportunity to invite pussy grabber Trump to meet the Queen a few days after he became POTUS, he didn't have to opportunity to pay £1 million in compensation to a man who went on to be a suicide bomber, he didn't have the opportunity to withdraw funding from thousands of schools that have budgeted for that level of funding and move it to schools that haven't - or to take money out of the general education budget and move it to new grammar schools, he didn't have the opportunity to initiate the first ever strike by doctors by imposing contract changes, he didn't have the opportunity to reduce the level of staffing in prisons to the point where the remaining staff are in danger, he didn't have the opportunity to close A&E and maternity units and reduced bed availability so that the NHS has seen its worst performance ever, he didn't have the opportunity to bribe Nisan and Surrey County Council in private and keep the details from the rest of us.....


Maybe it is just down to opportunities to **** up that she has that others don't, but she has opportunities that none of the other party leaders have and with those opportunities you do great things or do bad things and she is a monumental **** up and if you are aware of her actions I fail to see how even a reasonable Tory voter let alone voters from any other party could claim any one of them is doing a worse job than her.

Click to expand...

Thank goodness for that. I'm sure, given half the chance, he'd be 10 times worse.

londonblue said:

Thank goodness for that. I'm sure, given half the chance, he'd be 10 times worse.

Click to expand...

if you were comparing Corbyn policy and style with the policy and style of Owen Smith for example, and you opted for Smith's policies then you'd be a Labour supporter who wants some policy or style changes. But their policies don't differ that much, they are broadly within the Labour ethos. If you were comparing Corbyn's to May's and you opted for May then your thinking has moved from a Labour mindset to a Tory one. I can understand you wanting different options within Labour but if you look at the outcomes for the country of what May has done in such a short space of time she is displaying the very worst of Toryism and if that appeals to you more than even your least favourite Labour option then pretty much you have become a Tory.

Another Surrey Shrimper said:

if you were comparing Corbyn policy and style with the policy and style of Owen Smith for example, and you opted for Smith's policies then you'd be a Labour supporter who wants some policy or style changes. But their policies don't differ that much, they are broadly within the Labour ethos. If you were comparing Corbyn's to May's and you opted for May then your thinking has moved from a Labour mindset to a Tory one. I can understand you wanting different options within Labour but if you look at the outcomes for the country of what May has done in such a short space of time she is displaying the very worst of Toryism and if that appeals to you more than even your least favourite Labour option then pretty much you have become a Tory.

Click to expand...

On your opinion. In my opinion Corduroy is a car crash and I won't vote for him. Short of voting for no-one, which is against my principles, there is only one option. I might have to hold my nose when I vote, but I'd rather do that than vote for that incompetent.

As a Labour voter fully paid up member,thick and thin for 45 years, I have and will allways support the leader, but for the good of the party , I honestly believe JC should look at the long term for the party and step down.
I have had the pleasure of meeting him and he is an honest guy , who believes in his views, but sometimes in my opinion he is stuck in his ways and like everything else you have to move with the times.
Next the question do you want a Blairite like David Milliband to come back and give you no difference between policies of labour or Tories or can we find a leader that still holds the principles and foundation of the party I love and believe in with passion till the day I die.
I am afraid you cannot paper over the cracks on the party front, but neither should the fact that the tories have no policies to get the country out of the mess left by George and call me Dave. I refuse to accept UKIP as a party, they have perhaps shook up a system that needed a review, but a party to lead the country please let's not go there.Tim Farron is another leader Tim nice but seems dim and out of his depth in a puddle
Labour need to look hard at them selves, this defeat was no fluke but a warning we need a leader people can believe in and I'm afraid JC who I love and trust does not connect with the country and at the end of the day he's job is to regain power and anyone can see unless he changes it will not be so for many terms and leave the country in a mess not only financially, health, housing, mental health, and security
Do we want the Thatcher years of high interest, strikes, unemployment, re possession of homes, the rich getting richer the poor forgotten, I certainly donot and hope Labour powers feel the same.
UTS

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39085859

David Miliband as the comeback kid? :sick:

Benfleet A1 said:

Copeland to the tories and a hold for Labour in Stoke Central. Is anyone surprised, shocked, outraged or suicidal?

Click to expand...

No - next!

Another Surrey Shrimper said:

Anyone that thinks I don't engage fully in the politics threads hasn't been paying much attention.

Lesson seems to be you can converse with people or go straight to insults, but those two things don't work that well together. At least build up to an insult rather than dropping it into your first post.


Think of it as political foreplay, if you want to pull my hair and call me a bad name at the very end then at least build up to it.

Click to expand...

"Surely you aren't so slow that you can see that a shift to the middle ground is very much needed?"

Not sure exactly how this was even a direct insult anyway. You have surely been called a lot worse. You may know a bit about politics, that is true. You tend to ignore certain facts when it suits you. My initial question was really asking how Tories claiming a Labour stronghold could possibly back up your continued stance that Labour are in good shape and primed to get back into power?

What good is it having all these ideas which get no further than the party?

Would you have bet on Tories winning this seat on Thursday?

superblue24 said:

"Surely you aren't so slow that you can see that a shift to the middle ground is very much needed?"

Not sure exactly how this was even a direct insult anyway. You have surely been called a lot worse. You may know a bit about politics, that is true. You tend to ignore certain facts when it suits you. My initial question was really asking how Tories claiming a Labour stronghold could possibly back up your continued stance that Labour are in good shape and primed to get back into power?

What good is it having all these ideas which get no further than the party?

Would you have bet on Tories winning this seat on Thursday?

Click to expand...

A lot of people saw it as a possible Tory win.It was,because a lot of 2015 GE UKIP voters clearly voted tactically and switched their votes to the Tories.

By-election 2017: Copeland
Party Candidate Votes % ±
Conservative Trudy Harrison 13,748 44.3 +8.5
Labour Gillian Troughton 11,601 37.3 -4.9
Liberal Democrat Rebecca Hanson 2,252 7.2 +3.8
UKIP Fiona Mills 2,025 6.5 -9.0
Independent Michael Guest 811 2.6 N/A
Green Jack Lenox 550 1.7 -1.3
Independent Roy Ivinson 116 0.4 N/A
Majority 2,147 7.0
Turnout 31,889 51.35 -12.4
Conservative gain from Labour Swing +6.7

General Election 2015: Copeland
Party Candidate Votes % ±
Labour Jamie Reed 16,750 42.3 −3.7
Conservative Stephen Haraldsen 14,186 35.8 −1.3
UKIP Michael Pye 6,148 15.5 +13.2
Liberal Democrat Danny Gallagher 1,368 3.5 −6.7
Green Allan Todd 1,179 3.0 +2.1
Majority 2,564 6.5 −2.4
Turnout 39,631 63.8 −3.8
Labour hold Swing −1.2

Tangled up in Blue said:

A lot of people saw it as a possible Tory win.It was,because a lot of 2015 GE UKIP voters clearly voted tactically and switched their votes to the Tories.

By-election 2017: Copeland
Party Candidate Votes % ±
Conservative Trudy Harrison 13,748 44.3 +8.5
Labour Gillian Troughton 11,601 37.3 -4.9
Liberal Democrat Rebecca Hanson 2,252 7.2 +3.8
UKIP Fiona Mills 2,025 6.5 -9.0
Independent Michael Guest 811 2.6 N/A
Green Jack Lenox 550 1.7 -1.3
Independent Roy Ivinson 116 0.4 N/A
Majority 2,147 7.0
Turnout 31,889 51.35 -12.4
Conservative gain from Labour Swing +6.7

General Election 2015: Copeland
Party Candidate Votes % ±
Labour Jamie Reed 16,750 42.3 −3.7
Conservative Stephen Haraldsen 14,186 35.8 −1.3
UKIP Michael Pye 6,148 15.5 +13.2
Liberal Democrat Danny Gallagher 1,368 3.5 −6.7
Green Allan Todd 1,179 3.0 +2.1
Majority 2,564 6.5 −2.4
Turnout 39,631 63.8 −3.8
Labour hold Swing −1.2

Click to expand...

You can go on and on denying what is staring you right in the face for as long as you want. The western world has rejected Corbyn's style of politics a very long time ago - Labour is not becoming a laughing stock, it is a laughing stock.

Tangled up in Blue said:

That's your opinion Jim and you're fully entitled to it.Sorry but I don't agree.



I turned my back on Blair after Clause 4 was dropped-way before Iraq and even the 97 election.

Click to expand...

So you opted for the student politics of protest rather than the more difficult and grown up version of actually running a government? Says it all mate.

londonblue said:

On your opinion. In my opinion Corduroy is a car crash and I won't vote for him. Short of voting for no-one, which is against my principles, there is only one option. I might have to hold my nose when I vote, but I'd rather do that than vote for that incompetent.

Click to expand...

so just to clarify - you would hold your nose and vote for who?

Another Surrey Shrimper said:

so just to clarify - you would hold your nose and vote for who?

Click to expand...

I have hold my nose every time I vote. That community hall stinks.

Another Surrey Shrimper said:

so just to clarify - you would hold your nose and vote for who?

Click to expand...

Stop trying to be clever, it just sounds childish.

I'd rather vote Monster Raving Loony party than labour these days. At least The Monster Raving Loony party accept their failings.

Shrimpers are Magic said:

You can go on and on denying what is staring you right in the face for as long as you want. The western world has rejected Corbyn's style of politics a very long time ago - Labour is not becoming a laughing stock, it is a laughing stock.

Click to expand...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39093981

Think I'll let the leader answer that one,himself.Though, it's worth pointing out that he's only been leader for 18 months or so.

Shrimpers are Magic said:

So you opted for the student politics of protest rather than the more difficult and grown up version of actually running a government? Says it all mate.

Click to expand...

Been a long time since I was involved in student politics, mate.

londonblue said:

Stop trying to be clever, it just sounds childish.

I'd rather vote Monster Raving Loony party than labour these days. At least The Monster Raving Loony party accept their failings.

Click to expand...

I think there is a miss understanding here. There is nothing in my post other than a very straight question. I wasn't trying to be clever or childish I was trying to verify the conclusion to the point you were making - you said you would hold your nose and vote, but it wasn't clear (not to me anyway) who you would hold your nose and vote for so I'm asking who?

After watching Chak on the Marr show,made me truly understand why Labour are irrelevant in the world of politics .

They are barking mad.

Another Surrey Shrimper said:

I think there is a miss understanding here. There is nothing in my post other than a very straight question. I wasn't trying to be clever or childish I was trying to verify the conclusion to the point you were making - you said you would hold your nose and vote, but it wasn't clear (not to me anyway) who you would hold your nose and vote for so I'm asking who?

Click to expand...

Sorry, given my previous posts all through this thread, and the one on Corduroy himself, I find that impossible to believe.

londonblue said:

Sorry, given my previous posts all through this thread, and the one on Corduroy himself, I find that impossible to believe.

Click to expand...

I didn't want to assume anything - so if there was an election tomorrow you would vote Tory - was that the conclusion?