2017 General Election thread

Tangled up in Blue · May 24, 2017

superblue24 said:
How so? Corbyn has already laid his cards out on the table and said he wont leave without a deal. This immediately advertises our hand to the EU and gives them carte blanche to do whatever they please, probably ensuring that we either a) leave with a poor deal or b) leave with something that resembles what we already had and voted out of. Neither is any good for us. I don't give a flying **** about what is good for the EU, nor do I care where it leaves them.

Team May will get taken to the cleaner's by the EU over the divorce bill.As others have pointed out- May caves in under pressure-never a good idea when negotiating.Labour's policy is much more flexible.

londonblue · May 25, 2017

Tangled up in Blue said:
Team May will get taken to the cleaner's by the EU over the divorce bill.As others have pointed out- May caves in under pressure-never a good idea when negotiating.Labour's policy is much more flexible.

You mean team Britain. May won't have anything to do with the actual negotiations. There'll be a team of experts involved. My view is that we, as a country, are not in as strong a position as others would believe, and who happens to be PM won't make a huge amount of difference.

EastStandBlue · May 25, 2017

londonblue said:
You mean team Britain. May won't have anything to do with the actual negotiations. There'll be a team of experts involved. My view is that we, as a country, are not in as strong a position as others would believe, and who happens to be PM won't make a huge amount of difference.

Brilliant, then we can park Brexit and focus on other topics like the NHS, which the Tories are failing; the economy, which the Tories are failing; education, which the Tories are failing; adequate policing, which the Tories are failing; the energy market, which the Tories are failing...

londonblue · May 25, 2017

EastStandBlue said:
Brilliant, then we can park Brexit and focus on other topics like the NHS, which the Tories are failing; the economy, which the Tories are failing; education, which the Tories are failing; adequate policing, which the Tories are failing; the energy market, which the Tories are failing...

And yet they're still going to win because Corduroy is a waste of space. Hence my complete dismay.

Another Surrey Shrimper · May 25, 2017

londonblue said:
And yet they're still going to win because Corduroy is a waste of space. Hence my complete dismay.

why not make a positive case for another Conservative government then? You want May to win but your only way towards that is slating Labour. Cameron went for 'project fear' in many people's eyes and then lost the referendum, May supporters are using the same tactic and there is a danger the public will reject that again. Without and positive reasons to vote Tory it will be difficult to get their vote out.

Tangled up in Blue · May 25, 2017

londonblue said:
You mean team Britain. May won't have anything to do with the actual negotiations. There'll be a team of experts involved. My view is that we, as a country, are not in as strong a position as others would believe, and who happens to be PM won't make a huge amount of difference.

Brilliant.:hilarious:You do know how Cabinet government works,I suppose? Ever heard of Primus inter pares?

While I grant you that May won't be directly involved with the day to day negotiations,who on earth do you think the negotiating team will be reporting back to?

I tend to agee with your conclusion,BTW.

Tangled up in Blue · May 25, 2017

http://www.bbc.com/news/40039616

The "fruitcakes" are back. :winking:

haveaguiness · May 25, 2017

londonblue said:
And yet they're still going to win because Corduroy is a waste of space. Hence my complete dismay.

You seem to be dismissing Jeremy Corbyn rather flippantly and I wondered what your reasoning was for this? What has caused you to come to the conclusion that Corbyn is so unelectable?

londonblue · May 25, 2017

Another Surrey Shrimper said:
why not make a positive case for another Conservative government then? You want May to win but your only way towards that is slating Labour. Cameron went for 'project fear' in many people's eyes and then lost the referendum, May supporters are using the same tactic and there is a danger the public will reject that again. Without and positive reasons to vote Tory it will be difficult to get their vote out.

I don't need to. I'm simply not voting for an Corduroy for the reasons I've given over the last couple of years. Nothing has changed my view of him.

Are you seriously trying to equate what I have written on here with what Camerscum did in the referendum? I've got news for you. This is a football website where no-one is going to change their minds because of anything we write. (Doesn't mean we can't debate though...)

londonblue · May 25, 2017

Tangled up in Blue said:
Brilliant.:hilarious:You do know how Cabinet government works,I suppose? Ever heard of Primus inter pares?

While I grant you that May won't be directly involved with the day to day negotiations,who on earth do you think the negotiating team will be reporting back to?

I tend to agee with your conclusion,BTW.

So you agree with most of what I say?

BTW: I do realise that they report back to the PM, but I don't think that is going to make much difference. After all, Corduroy was only 70% for remain as well.
:hilarious:

EastStandBlue · May 25, 2017

londonblue said:
I don't need to. I'm simply not voting for an Corduroy for the reasons I've given over the last couple of years. Nothing has changed my view of him.

But you'll vote for Theresa May despite considering she doesn't stand to do any better? I just can't understand that.

Shrimpers are Magic · May 25, 2017

Another Surrey Shrimper said:
we have had attacks before though and not seen the army on our streets for ten years. For that to be the case people will ask why now - the election, reduced police numbers, to send a message?

Personally I'm not convinced it's a good move. We preach that these attacks won't stop us from carrying on going to work, going to gigs, using public transport, and then we have soldiers on the street. For me that is a visual message that these attacks effect us and make us live in fear. Personally I would play down any symbolism that makes the terrorists think they are having a effect on our way of life.

I vowed never to reply to your posts again but you're just getting on my nerves.
The army being deployed has nothing to do with police numbers. It is operation Temperer which has been put in place due to intel of imminent terrorist attacks. You will notice that the UK security level threat is now at Critical.
The decision to go to this level comes from the highest security staff level and if anyone seriously thinks this is some kind of election stunt by the tory party or due to police cuts then you are seriously deluded. Do you honestly think the head of M15 would agree to raise to the highest threat level just to help May win the election?
You seriously don't know what you're taking about.

londonblue · May 25, 2017

EastStandBlue said:
But you'll vote for Theresa May despite considering she doesn't stand to do any better? I just can't understand that.

My point is that for someone to be removed from office, the alternative should be better. If they're not then you might as well keep what you've got.

Moreover, she is better, because she's not anywhere near as incompetent. She hasn't lost control of her party, she doesn't pander to terrorists, she doesn't invite terrorists into the HoC, she doesn't call terrorists her friends, and she isn't soft on racism.

haveaguiness · May 25, 2017

londonblue said:
My point is that for someone to be removed from office, the alternative should be better. If they're not then you might as well keep what you've got.

Moreover, she is better, because she's not anywhere near as incompetent. She hasn't lost control of her party, she doesn't pander to terrorists, she doesn't invite terrorists into the HoC, she doesn't call terrorists her friends, and she isn't soft on racism.

Where is the evidence to suggest that she is "not anywhere near as incompetent", bearing in mind the U-turns from and complete uncosting of her own (as she happily told us) Manifesto?

It is also interesting that you should bring up that "she doesn't invite terrorists into the HoC", when one of the Tory's own councillors is a former IRA member, who at one time was one of the most wanted terrorists in the UK.

For me as a (fairly) young voter, I have been led by the media over subsequent years, but the whole fiasco with Brexit and the American Presedential race has made me question everything in the media, especially when the majority of popular newspapers in this country are all in it for themselves and wish the Tory's to get in power, added to that their owners are all offshore tax dodgers, of course they want an easy life.

The Labour manifesto at least offers hope to the older generation, people that have worked hard all their lives to own their own homes only to be told by the current government that they must now get rid of that home (even after they are gone, they are still having to get rid of it) rather than being able to pass on to their children to give them a good go at life - it all must be said at the benefit of mortgage and insurance companies. And to the younger generation, who will be able to have a hot meal everyday at school and be able to afford to go to University and start a life when they leave.

I don't see any hope in the Conservative Manifesto (and I have voted for them previously) with 10 more years of austerity - despite all this supposing to have been under control by now - cuts to services for the most needing, bringing back of a barbaric "sport" for the rich elite and tax breaks for the richest people and companies in the country.

londonblue · May 25, 2017

haveaguiness said:
Where is the evidence to suggest that she is "not anywhere near as incompetent", bearing in mind the U-turns from and complete uncosting of her own (as she happily told us) Manifesto?

It is also interesting that you should bring up that "she doesn't invite terrorists into the HoC", when one of the Tory's own councillors is a former IRA member, who at one time was one of the most wanted terrorists in the UK.

For me as a (fairly) young voter, I have been led by the media over subsequent years, but the whole fiasco with Brexit and the American Presedential race has made me question everything in the media, especially when the majority of popular newspapers in this country are all in it for themselves and wish the Tory's to get in power, added to that their owners are all offshore tax dodgers, of course they want an easy life.

The Labour manifesto at least offers hope to the older generation, people that have worked hard all their lives to own their own homes only to be told by the current government that they must now get rid of that home (even after they are gone, they are still having to get rid of it) rather than being able to pass on to their children to give them a good go at life - it all must be said at the benefit of mortgage and insurance companies. And to the younger generation, who will be able to have a hot meal everyday at school and be able to afford to go to University and start a life when they leave.

I don't see any hope in the Conservative Manifesto (and I have voted for them previously) with 10 more years of austerity - despite all this supposing to have been under control by now - cuts to services for the most needing, bringing back of a barbaric "sport" for the rich elite and tax breaks for the richest people and companies in the country.

IMO Corduroy is more incompetent. Apart from that you've not actually disagreed with anything I said. You have have tried to point out that a tory used to be a member of the IRA, but that's hardly the same.

Corduroy has lost control of his party to the point where more than half his MPs want rid of him, she hasn't. Corduroy has invited terrorists to the HoC, she hasn't. Corduroy has called terrorists his friends, she hasn't. Corduroy has failed to deal adequately with racism in his party, she hasn't.

If he can't control his own party (not a surprise because he couldn't be controlled himself previously) then I have zero faith in his ability to lead.

Tangled up in Blue · May 25, 2017

londonblue said:
So you agree with most of what I say?

BTW: I do realise that they report back to the PM, but I don't think that is going to make much difference. After all, Corduroy was only 70% for remain as well.
:hilarious:

FWIW,I tend to agree with the last sentence in your original post.That's all.

Though, I'm not so sure that the clear differences between Labour's and The Tories negotiating stances won't lead to a markedly different outcome when Brexit negotiations start in earnest.Hopefully,Labour will be able to hold the Tories to account in Parliament on these differences.

haveaguiness · May 25, 2017

londonblue said:
IMO Corduroy is more incompetent. Apart from that you've not actually disagreed with anything I said. You have have tried to point out that a tory used to be a member of the IRA, but that's hardly the same.

Corduroy has lost control of his party to the point where more than half his MPs want rid of him, she hasn't. Corduroy has invited terrorists to the HoC, she hasn't. Corduroy has called terrorists his friends, she hasn't. Corduroy has failed to deal adequately with racism in his party, she hasn't.

If he can't control his own party (not a surprise because he couldn't be controlled himself previously) then I have zero faith in his ability to lead.

This is exactly how things work with the media at present. I point out that an actual member of the Tory party used to be in the IRA and I will add, once said "I agreed with the shooting of British soldiers and believed the more who were killed the better…", but you simply dismiss it as if it doesn't matter.

Yet you state all these things about Corbyn which are pretty much unsubstantiated or false accusations - in fact there is a rather good article here explaining more or less everything you have bought up. It is rather a long read but it concludes:

"Apparently, we’re quite happy to make these claims against people even when it’s clear that the actions of the individuals in question are in the interest of encouraging peace processes, challenging media biases or facilitating cross-cultural conversation.I find it deeply troubling that, of all things, Corbyn should be attacked for supporting violent and hateful organisations and individuals when he has spent so much of his political career fighting for free speech and trying to bring about the conditions necessary for peace in many different parts of the world.
It’s hard not to conclude — given how aware most journalists and politicians are of this fact — that those responsible for circulating these accusations are guilty of political point-scoring of the lowest order."

In regards to his own party, this is a man who has been given an overwhelming mandate by his members to represent them, the fact that a few right-leaning Labour MP's don't like him is probably the least of his worries bearing in mind the world he wants and what he stands for.

rigsby · May 25, 2017

The fact is Corbyn invited Gerry Adams and his cronies into the House of Commons not long after the Brighton bomb of 1984 which had killed 5 people including an MP. At the time Corbyn and the IRA were calling for troops out of Ireland and were certainly not talking about peace.

What if some back bench rebel invited members of ISIS to do the same next month. Especially if they were not just the voice of the terror but also raised funds for them and ordered the Manchester attack. In 1984 that's exactly what Adams was doing for the IRA......Corbyn thought he would win back then and was never talking peace......Fact.

For those of you who think Terror cannot be defeated, you should remember the Brighton bombing was the beginning of the end for the IRA. Thatcher called in the SAS and said right lads time stop these murdering scum anyway you see fit and the British Government will back you 100%.....That is the only reason the IRA ever reached out for a surrender disguised as peace talks and boy have JC and his chums lied their a.... of ever since.

londonblue · May 25, 2017

haveaguiness said:
This is exactly how things work with the media at present. I point out that an actual member of the Tory party used to be in the IRA and I will add, once said "I agreed with the shooting of British soldiers and believed the more who were killed the better…", but you simply dismiss it as if it doesn't matter.

Yet you state all these things about Corbyn which are pretty much unsubstantiated or false accusations - in fact there is a rather good article here explaining more or less everything you have bought up. It is rather a long read but it concludes:

"Apparently, we’re quite happy to make these claims against people even when it’s clear that the actions of the individuals in question are in the interest of encouraging peace processes, challenging media biases or facilitating cross-cultural conversation.I find it deeply troubling that, of all things, Corbyn should be attacked for supporting violent and hateful organisations and individuals when he has spent so much of his political career fighting for free speech and trying to bring about the conditions necessary for peace in many different parts of the world.
It’s hard not to conclude — given how aware most journalists and politicians are of this fact — that those responsible for circulating these accusations are guilty of political point-scoring of the lowest order."

In regards to his own party, this is a man who has been given an overwhelming mandate by his members to represent them, the fact that a few right-leaning Labour MP's don't like him is probably the least of his worries bearing in mind the world he wants and what he stands for.

Just to be clear here. None of this is unsubstantiated or false. I suggest you do your own research. I simply can't be bothered to do it all again.

Tangled up in Blue · May 25, 2017

rigsby said:
The fact is Corbyn invited Gerry Adams and his cronies into the House of Commons not long after the Brighton bomb of 1984 which had killed 5 people including an MP. At the time Corbyn and the IRA were calling for troops out of Ireland and were certainly not talking about peace.

Click to expand...

It's well known that Thatcher's government was holding secret talks with the IRA around about the same time.

What if some back bench rebel invited members of ISIS to do the same next month. Especially if they were not just the voice of the terror but also raised funds for them and ordered the Manchester attack. In 1984 that's exactly what Adams was doing for the IRA......Corbyn thought he would win back then and was never talking peace......Fact.

Click to expand...

It's really not possible to compare the IRA with ISIS.Even you should know that.

For those of you who think Terror cannot be defeated, you should remember the Brighton bombing was the beginning of the end for the IRA. Thatcher called in the SAS and said right lads time stop these murdering scum anyway you see fit and the British Government will back you 100%.....That is the only reason the IRA ever reached out for a surrender disguised as peace talks and boy have JC and his chums lied their a.... of ever since.

Click to expand...

Your version of history doesn't accord well with the "ballots not bombs" approach, which is what has brought peace to N.Ireland.

In any case, you really need to explain what your post has to do with the general election in the UK in June 2017.

2017 General Election thread

Certified Senior Citizen⭐

Topgun Pilot

Life President

Topgun Pilot

Life President

Certified Senior Citizen⭐

Certified Senior Citizen⭐

Coach

Topgun Pilot

Topgun Pilot

Life President

President

Topgun Pilot

Coach

Topgun Pilot

Certified Senior Citizen⭐

Coach

Life President⭐

Topgun Pilot

Certified Senior Citizen⭐

.

ShrimperZone Sponsors

ShrimperZone - Player Sponsorship

Southend United Away Travel

All At Sea Fanzine