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Local Elections

its so very odd that people obsess over the opposition yet don't seem bothered that the government are supremely *****

Please don't include me in that assumption ***, I'm quite happy with the Tory government thanks. And I'm far from obsessed but this is a political forum and just like argumentative politicians I don't miss an opportunity for some quality point scoring ;)

I also happen to think that a stable and worthwhile opposition that's led by someone that can relate to a large portion of the UK voting public is not just worthwhile and healthy politically I think it's important in respect that it's necessary for a true democracy to work.

I'm afraid the facts are the facts ***, as has been born out by the heavy defeat in the recent council elections and you can sugar coat them any way you want. It was a humiliating defeat for Labour at the very time history tells us they should be stealing seats off the Tories up and down the country. The fact is vast swathes of the UK voting public cannot relate to JC and his policies and the likes of DA being openly supported by him has only made matters far worse. It seems to me, and I would imagine many many others as well, that his latest gaff of publicly supporting her and her chaotic ramblings says more about him wanting to stick to his rather naive principles of comradeship rather than do what's best for the party as a whole as it's slowly crumbles around his feet.
 
Please don't include me in that assumption ***, I'm quite happy with the Tory government thanks. And I'm far from obsessed but this is a political forum and just like argumentative politicians I don't miss an opportunity for some quality point scoring ;)

I also happen to think that a stable and worthwhile opposition that's led by someone that can relate to a large portion of the UK voting public is not just worthwhile and healthy politically I think it's important in respect that it's necessary for a true democracy to work.

I'm afraid the facts are the facts ***, as has been born out by the heavy defeat in the recent council elections and you can sugar coat them any way you want. It was a humiliating defeat for Labour at the very time history tells us they should be stealing seats off the Tories up and down the country. The fact is vast swathes of the UK voting public cannot relate to JC and his policies and the likes of DA being openly supported by him has only made matters far worse. It seems to me, and I would imagine many many others as well, that his latest gaff of publicly supporting her and her chaotic ramblings says more about him wanting to stick to his rather naive principles of comradeship rather than do what's best for the party as a whole as it's slowly crumbles around his feet.
first things first - what do you see as the current government's achievements?
 
first things first - what do you see as the current government's achievements?

Are you really suggesting people should vote labour because the tories are no better? When the parties are considered as bad as eachother a) most people will stick with the status quo, and b) they will look at the leader, and whatever you think of May clearly isn't reflected by the rest of the voting population.

Labour are in all kinds of trouble. I can't wait for the election because it will be the end of Corduroy. The labour party can sort itself out and we can pretend the last couple of years never happened. Except he's so pig-headed he'll probably find any reason to stay around, much like a bad smell.
 
Are you really suggesting people should vote labour because the tories are no better? When the parties are considered as bad as eachother a) most people will stick with the status quo, and b) they will look at the leader, and whatever you think of May clearly isn't reflected by the rest of the voting population.

Labour are in all kinds of trouble. I can't wait for the election because it will be the end of Corduroy. The labour party can sort itself out and we can pretend the last couple of years never happened. Except he's so pig-headed he'll probably find any reason to stay around, much like a bad smell.

He said he was happy with the Conservative government and I asked what were their achievements.

Why are you reading so much into a very simple question?
 
Very quickly. A strong economy with unemployment at an 11 year low.

Your turn.








Edit: That and the fact every other alternative, especially the current Labour party, don't bare thinking about.
Strong economy? When the Tories came to power UK had a AAA rating and the lowest G7 debt, not anymore.


National debt 2010 £980 billion 65% of GDP
National debt 2016 £1.7 trillion 89% of GDP


Is this likely to improve? Well Ms May's dealings with the EU makes a no deal outcome look very likely. David Davies admitted to a Commons Committee that no plans or costings have been made for a no deal outcome. So the economy is not so much in a safe pair of hands but more of a shrug of the shoulders.






Unemployment - yes as you say the Tories have managed to get it down to the levels it was at during the last Labour term of office. But what kind of employment is it? There are 910,000 on zero hours contracts. Poverty amongst people with jobs has rocketed and 10 million meals were given out by food banks. Cost of living has risen above wage levels every year and even the Telegraph have headlines stating that the UK housing crisis is at its worst for 20 years.


Economy and unemployment - any other achievements from the current government?
 
A 2.2% growth in the UK economy in real terms for 2016

£630b pounds sterling in manufacturing and services exports to the EU 2015/2016

6.9% growth in house prices during 2016

And extra 342,000 people in employment in 2016 compared to 2015

A 2.5% increase in the average working wage throughout the UK.

Granted I've cherry picked a few answers there to suit my argument. That is after all what we do here on Shrimperzone isn't it?

Now, to put a personal perspective on some of what I've just said. Since June of last year we, I say we as in my employment sector/place of work, saw a rapid increase in the price of crude oil which effected our bottom line and output quite drastically. nearly a year on and because we adapted to the uncertain and unpredictable market conditions we weathered the initial storm and now we are struggling to cope with the surge in growth of the building sector due in part to the fall in raw material prices and the private sector falling over themselves to build new homes. Three shifts and weekends and the order book is full to the brim.Personally I've never been better off and long may that continue. Certainly better off than I was under the last Labour government. Selfish I know but that's Capitalism for you.

Have the Conservative party done it all right? Hell no, not by a long shot. Some of their policies I am vehemently against and disagree with. The problem is currently there is NO viable alternative while JC and his cohorts are at the helm of the Labour party.

As I have said a few times on here before. I have no particular political allegiance one way or another and haven't all my life. To me it's all personal as to how the government and it's policies are effecting me and my family at that time. If my loved one's and myself are suffering socially and financially then I will change my voting strategy and hope my choice changes things for me and them. If however we are doing ok thank you very much (which we are) then the status quo will do me just fine and no amount of leaflets, TV interviews and indeed links to Guardian articles will ever make me change the way I do things.

Family and loved one's first every time. Political beliefs, ideals and allegiances second.
 
A 2.2% growth in the UK economy in real terms for 2016

£630b pounds sterling in manufacturing and services exports to the EU 2015/2016

6.9% growth in house prices during 2016

And extra 342,000 people in employment in 2016 compared to 2015

A 2.5% increase in the average working wage throughout the UK.

Granted I've cherry picked a few answers there to suit my argument. That is after all what we do here on Shrimperzone isn't it?

Now, to put a personal perspective on some of what I've just said. Since June of last year we, I say we as in my employment sector/place of work, saw a rapid increase in the price of crude oil which effected our bottom line and output quite drastically. nearly a year on and because we adapted to the uncertain and unpredictable market conditions we weathered the initial storm and now we are struggling to cope with the surge in growth of the building sector due in part to the fall in raw material prices and the private sector falling over themselves to build new homes. Three shifts and weekends and the order book is full to the brim.Personally I've never been better off and long may that continue. Certainly better off than I was under the last Labour government. Selfish I know but that's Capitalism for you.

Have the Conservative party done it all right? Hell no, not by a long shot. Some of their policies I am vehemently against and disagree with. The problem is currently there is NO viable alternative while JC and his cohorts are at the helm of the Labour party.

As I have said a few times on here before. I have no particular political allegiance one way or another and haven't all my life. To me it's all personal as to how the government and it's policies are effecting me and my family at that time. If my loved one's and myself are suffering socially and financially then I will change my voting strategy and hope my choice changes things for me and them. If however we are doing ok thank you very much (which we are) then the status quo will do me just fine and no amount of leaflets, TV interviews and indeed links to Guardian articles will ever make me change the way I do things.

Family and loved one's first every time. Political beliefs, ideals and allegiances second[.


Funnily enough, I said pretty much the same thing to a couple of friends of mine in the Palace theatre bar last Saturday week.Doesn't make me a Tory though.
 
This whole "brain drain" debate reminds me of Rob Muldoon, the NZ PM in the 1980s, who said that Kiwis that go to live in Australia raise the average IQ of both countries.
 
Last edited:
A 2.2% growth in the UK economy in real terms for 2016

£630b pounds sterling in manufacturing and services exports to the EU 2015/2016

6.9% growth in house prices during 2016

And extra 342,000 people in employment in 2016 compared to 2015

A 2.5% increase in the average working wage throughout the UK.

Granted I've cherry picked a few answers there to suit my argument. That is after all what we do here on Shrimperzone isn't it?

Now, to put a personal perspective on some of what I've just said. Since June of last year we, I say we as in my employment sector/place of work, saw a rapid increase in the price of crude oil which effected our bottom line and output quite drastically. nearly a year on and because we adapted to the uncertain and unpredictable market conditions we weathered the initial storm and now we are struggling to cope with the surge in growth of the building sector due in part to the fall in raw material prices and the private sector falling over themselves to build new homes. Three shifts and weekends and the order book is full to the brim.Personally I've never been better off and long may that continue. Certainly better off than I was under the last Labour government. Selfish I know but that's Capitalism for you.

Have the Conservative party done it all right? Hell no, not by a long shot. Some of their policies I am vehemently against and disagree with. The problem is currently there is NO viable alternative while JC and his cohorts are at the helm of the Labour party.

As I have said a few times on here before. I have no particular political allegiance one way or another and haven't all my life. To me it's all personal as to how the government and it's policies are effecting me and my family at that time. If my loved one's and myself are suffering socially and financially then I will change my voting strategy and hope my choice changes things for me and them. If however we are doing ok thank you very much (which we are) then the status quo will do me just fine and no amount of leaflets, TV interviews and indeed links to Guardian articles will ever make me change the way I do things.

Family and loved one's first every time. Political beliefs, ideals and allegiances second.

Funnily enough, I said pretty much the same thing to a couple of friends of mine in the Palace theatre bar last Saturday week.Doesn't make me a Tory though.

Ok, you lost me now. No one has ever suggested you didn't or it had. Certainly not I :dim: Strange bloke you are :hilarious:

Wanting to take care of your family and friends would seem,to me at least, to be a natural human instinct.I don't particulary associate it with any political party or belief system.Though if pressed, I'd say it was perfectly consistent with socialism.
 
Wanting to take care of your family and friends would seem,to me at least, to be a natural human instinct.I don't particulary associate it with any political party or belief system.Though if pressed, I'd say it was perfectly consistent with socialism.

Of course it is a natural human instinct. I didn't for one minute suggest anywhere it wasn't but please don't let that stop you making a totally irrelevant point. The association that you can't grasp comes about due to it also being a natural human instinct that can come into direct conflict with a personal political belief if that belief or allegiance to one particular political way of life becomes detrimental to those very same loved ones you care about.

My parents suffered at the hands of a few Labour governments over a number of decades and I'm old enough to remember the 70's with abject horror and teenage anger. Myself, and the loved ones around me have always been better off and had a better way of life under a Tory government. Whether that is down to luck, personal life choices or being born and bred in the South East I have no idea but when it comes down to the so called 'big issues' I will ALWAYS look after No1, my family (what's left) and friends but not necessarily in that order. Am I happy within myself with that? Hell yes :raspberry:


Edit:
I know you don't do hypotheticals but humour this old toad for a minute. Lets assume that you and your family are happily living the life you do in the country of your choice and a far left wing Socialist government came to power in that country and you and your good lady, together with your daughter lost their jobs and had to survive on handouts from the state. Lets also assume that the unions of this country were holding various businesses and parts of the manufacturing sector to ransom with pay demands that can never be met. Lets assume (hypothetically) that far left Socialism for this country has been it's downfall for many thousands of people. Now, you know what I'm going to ask I'm sure........How would you square your political ideals with the obvious suffering of those around you and would you wilfully change that belief to hopefully ease their suffering?
 
Of course it is a natural human instinct. I didn't for one minute suggest anywhere it wasn't but please don't let that stop you making a totally irrelevant point. The association that you can't grasp comes about due to it also being a natural human instinct that can come into direct conflict with a personal political belief if that belief or allegiance to one particular political way of life becomes detrimental to those very same loved ones you care about.

My parents suffered at the hands of a few Labour governments over a number of decades and I'm old enough to remember the 70's with abject horror and teenage anger. Myself, and the loved ones around me have always been better off and had a better way of life under a Tory government. Whether that is down to luck, personal life choices or being born and bred in the South East I have no idea but when it comes down to the so called 'big issues' I will ALWAYS look after No1, my family (what's left) and friends but not necessarily in that order. Am I happy within myself with that? Hell yes :raspberry:


Edit:
I know you don't do hypotheticals but humour this old toad for a minute. Lets assume that you and your family are happily living the life you do in the country of your choice and a far left wing Socialist government came to power in that country and you and your good lady, together with your daughter lost their jobs and had to survive on handouts from the state. Lets also assume that the unions of this country were holding various businesses and parts of the manufacturing sector to ransom with pay demands that can never be met. Lets assume (hypothetically) that far left Socialism for this country has been it's downfall for many thousands of people. Now, you know what I'm going to ask I'm sure........How would you square your political ideals with the obvious suffering of those around you and would you wilfully change that belief to hopefully ease their suffering?
I think you have been good at engaging in real discussions on here - so having said that for context - this hypothetical thing is embarrassing
 
I think you have been good at engaging in real discussions on here - so having said that for context - this hypothetical thing is embarrassing

Why is it? I'm curious to know how an entrenched political viewpoint held by a person can be justified when it impacts adversely on the very people that person purports to care about. Granted, probably not for this thread but it's a genuine question and not meant to bait, anger or goad in any way.
 
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