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Thread: Brexit negotiations thread

  
  1. #796

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Otto View Post
    I'm not a tory voter or a Cameron fan but don't agree with you on this one. Cameron advised the country to vote remain and I think it was actually democratic to hold the referendum after the success UKIP had in the previous GE.
    Whether Cameron offered the referendum to the British people in order to preserve his Conservative hide or as an advancement of democracy, is a debateable issue. What was criminal on Cameron's part was to propose a referendum on such a profound and complex change to Britain's future, on a simple majority. To set in motion the enormous changes and disruption we can now see Brexit is bringing about should have required, at least a 60% (and possibly more) vote. The fact it didn't was down to his sheer arrogance and cocksuredness.................it's that which is unforgiveable.
    "Celui qui renonce à devenir meilleur cesse déjà d'être bon." L Pasteur

  2. #797

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Football View Post
    So. What did I learn today.

    Well, last week, but now I know its in the public domain.....

    One of the things Leavers championed was the ability for the UK to make their own trade deals as a stand alone member of the EU. Seems, its not that east. An early (and hardly reported) success was an agreement between the UK and EU over WTO schedules. Basically, we agreed to split our quotas proportionally.

    However, it seems the rest of the world aren't so happy, as there is a secondary effect of doing that. For example New Zealand sells a lot of lamb to the UK, using most of its "EU quota" to do so. By splitting the quota, they can now only export a smaller amount of lamb to the UK as the rest belongs to the EU. So our "early win" has backfired.

    Similarly, the US are concerned that that EU goods can be exported to the UK via Ireland if there isn't a border, thus giving the EU an advantage over the US who need to pay duty when exporting to Ireland whereas the rest of the EU, don't. So the option of "no border" is becoming increasingly unlikely.

    For much the same reason, it has become clear that without a trade deal it is against WTO rules to give a better rate of duty to any country. So we don't actually have the power to set our rates on an individual basis.

    Oh, and it seems all those things we joined as a member of the EU we will need to re-apply for as a single stand alone nation.

    What does that mean? It means that one of the underpinning arguments for post Brexit trade isn't going to work without another set of extremely complex negotiations and agreements.

    And we've got to do all this in 18 months.....
    Thanks for the updates. It appears, as layer upon layer of the complexity of our detatchment from the EU are revealed, the greater the complications and difficulties of this process, in such a limited time, become apparent.
    "Celui qui renonce à devenir meilleur cesse déjà d'être bon." L Pasteur

  3. #798
    *Come On The Football* callan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Football View Post
    So. What did I learn today.

    Well, last week, but now I know its in the public domain.....

    One of the things Leavers championed was the ability for the UK to make their own trade deals as a stand alone member of the EU. Seems, its not that east. An early (and hardly reported) success was an agreement between the UK and EU over WTO schedules. Basically, we agreed to split our quotas proportionally.

    However, it seems the rest of the world aren't so happy, as there is a secondary effect of doing that. For example New Zealand sells a lot of lamb to the UK, using most of its "EU quota" to do so. By splitting the quota, they can now only export a smaller amount of lamb to the UK as the rest belongs to the EU. So our "early win" has backfired.

    Similarly, the US are concerned that that EU goods can be exported to the UK via Ireland if there isn't a border, thus giving the EU an advantage over the US who need to pay duty when exporting to Ireland whereas the rest of the EU, don't. So the option of "no border" is becoming increasingly unlikely.

    For much the same reason, it has become clear that without a trade deal it is against WTO rules to give a better rate of duty to any country. So we don't actually have the power to set our rates on an individual basis.

    Oh, and it seems all those things we joined as a member of the EU we will need to re-apply for as a single stand alone nation.

    What does that mean? It means that one of the underpinning arguments for post Brexit trade isn't going to work without another set of extremely complex negotiations and agreements.

    And we've got to do all this in 18 months.....
    My understanding is that the quotas were to be divided on consumption levels, worked out over a three year period....is that not the case?
    "But the significant thing is not that they happen, but that, even when they are known about, they provoke no reaction from the left-wing intelligentsia as a whole. The argument that to tell the truth would be "inopportune" or would "play into the hands of" somebody or other is felt to be unanswerable"

  4. #799
    Certified Senior Citizen Tangled up in Blue's Avatar
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    "No amount of cajolery can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin."

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    Reports of Brexit deadlock have been exaggerated say Donald Tusk.

    Who says the great and the good don't read Shrimperzone!

  6. #801
    Super Moderator Lord Football's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by callan View Post
    My understanding is that the quotas were to be divided on consumption levels, worked out over a three year period....is that not the case?

    It is how we and the EU agreed to proceed.

    However, the letter penned by the US (I believe), supported by other members of the WTO says.... "Such an outcome would not be consistent with the principle of leaving other [WTO] members no worse off, nor fully honour the existing TRQ access commitments. Thus, we cannot accept such an agreement."

  7. #802
    *Come On The Football* callan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Football View Post
    It is how we and the EU agreed to proceed.

    However, the letter penned by the US (I believe), supported by other members of the WTO says.... "Such an outcome would not be consistent with the principle of leaving other [WTO] members no worse off, nor fully honour the existing TRQ access commitments. Thus, we cannot accept such an agreement."
    Yes I have seen the letter, and the text you quote is directly from it.

    However the important part is the paragraph that precedes it...where it states that quotas cannot be determined on historical averages...that is inconsistent with the EU/UK proposal is it not?
    "But the significant thing is not that they happen, but that, even when they are known about, they provoke no reaction from the left-wing intelligentsia as a whole. The argument that to tell the truth would be "inopportune" or would "play into the hands of" somebody or other is felt to be unanswerable"

  8. #803
    Super Moderator Lord Football's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by callan View Post
    Yes I have seen the letter, and the text you quote is directly from it.

    However the important part is the paragraph that precedes it...where it states that quotas cannot be determined on historical averages...that is inconsistent with the EU/UK proposal is it not?
    Yes, that's my understanding.

    Possibly the first of the assumptions we'd made that in reality can't happen.

    I am at an EU working group next week in Germany. It will be interesting to see if I am sat in naughty corner......

  9. #804
    Ron Martins Bitch Swiss Tony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Football View Post
    Yes, that's my understanding.

    Possibly the first of the assumptions we'd made that in reality can't happen.

    I am at an EU working group next week in Germany. It will be interesting to see if I am sat in naughty corner......
    The Germans have been in the naughty corner a few times over the years themselves I wouldn't worry,they don't.
    .

  10. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Football View Post
    Yes, that's my understanding.

    Possibly the first of the assumptions we'd made that in reality can't happen.

    I am at an EU working group next week in Germany. It will be interesting to see if I am sat in naughty corner......
    Perhaps you should pull your shoulders back and walk in with your head held high - why don't you try it?

  11. #806
    Certified Senior Citizen Tangled up in Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Football View Post
    Yes, that's my understanding.

    Possibly the first of the assumptions we'd made that in reality can't happen.

    I am at an EU working group next week in Germany. It will be interesting to see if I am sat in naughty corner......
    I'm sure you¡ll be welcome.If you bring enough dosh with you.
    "No amount of cajolery can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin."

    Nye Bevan.

  12. #807
    Super Moderator Lord Football's Avatar
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    Boys. Comment was tongue in cheek.

    I'll get the seat in the corner ..... I always do.....

    .....but that's because the seating plan is laid out in alphabetical order, and UK is last.

    The line is that we act in exactly the same way we did before we triggered A50. And that's how it should be.

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