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England's September qualifying games

Why exactly? Do we even have the players to counter quickly? We need someone in midfield capable of pivoting and driving forward, either with the ball or with an incisive pass, and nothing I’ve seen from Henderson or Dier has shown me they’re capable of that. Also, when was the last time England ever countered with great consistency?

This, for me, is one of the biggest problems holding England back. After Spain won consecutive competitions we spoke of our need to take better care of the ball, particularly in midfield and in the 5 and 6 roles. So we spent time and dedicated coaching resource into working on that. Then Germany came to the fore with a slightly more dynamic approach and suddenly we’re not quick enough going forward.

We haven’t, for decades now, had our own identity. We’re too preoccupied with parroting someone else’s after periods of success. Until we’re actually comfortable in our own skin, and are confident enough to produce players to fit a desired ethos or culture, then we’ll only ever amount to being a copy of a team that has since moved on.

I’d argue France are a fantastic example of this at the moment too. They’ve some wonderful players, probably one of the most complete squads on the national scene at the moment, and yet they’ve made hard work of qualification and Deschamps has no idea what he’s doing with that squad.

Yes. We do. Our problem is that we don't have players that can break down teams that play with 10/11 players behind the ball. We have the pace to turn those defenders, but we need to create the space to do so, and that is achieved by counter attacking. I think Glenn Hoddle was spot on when he said all of that. This is nothing to do with how Germany play, it has everything to do with playing to our strengths, and those strengths are our pace on the break (especially with someone like Vardy), not trying to break down teams by playing the ball along the line in front of the defense. We need to turn the defenders, and get in behind them.
 
Whereas I'd think many people recognized DA had that extra bit of creativity and flair about him I've not seen anything in Winks to suggest he has similar attributes in class and ability, more another good young club-player. Is he a possible game-changer at international level? I'd doubt it.
 
He played 21 games in the Prem last year. A further five so far this year. Dele Alli had around the same number under his belt when he made his England debut and now he's one of the first names on the team sheet.

Only four starts in that number though.

Hope he gets more opportunities with Spurs this season and indeed a chance to show what he has in the Brazil and Germany friendlies next month.
 
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...and it's a uncalled-for to call him fantastic, that's an insult to good players. Watch him closely, he always looks lost and doesn't know what to do next.

Fantastic might be pushing it but he is one of the best at what he does. Henderson's role at Liverpool is to essentially spot when his teammates are in trouble, run over, find a bit of space near them, get them to pass the ball to him and then he plays a simple ball to one of the more technically gifted players so that the attack can continue. That sounds like an easy job but it requires a lot of running and awareness of danger before it happens. He's also a pretty good defensive midfielder when they don't have the ball. Liverpool need someone like that because they have a lot of skillful midfielders that will run with the ball, which means without someone like Henderson to run over to help out they'll lose the ball more often than not and be vulnerable to a counter attack. There's a reason they tend to play worse when he isn't in the squad.

Unfortunately England don't have many skillful players so that role is rarely necessary, as a result Southgate is trying to use him as a playmaker, something he isn't very good at.
 
Yep, he's best at holding up play so it grinds to a halt. Short passes, usually sideways and backwards, are of little help to the front players when he should be in there assisting in creating attacks. If he's really not up to doing that then what does he add to the team other than creating a pedestrian approach to play?
 
Yep, he's best at holding up play so it grinds to a halt. Short passes, usually sideways and backwards, are of little help to the front players when he should be in there assisting in creating attacks. If he's really not up to doing that then what does he add to the team other than creating a pedestrian approach to play?

Very little, if I was Liverpool manager he'd be in my team every week but if I was England manager I'm not sure I'd even put him on the bench because we don't have the type of players Henderson needs to be effective.

Lallana is probably the answer to our problems since he can pick a pass but who his backup will be needs to be answered because he's injury prone. If Winks has a good season I guess it will be him but if he doesn't I can't think of many other English passing CMs in the league. Shelvey might be a shout, there are a lot of English players better than him but just for his ability to pass he might be needed to improve our tempo.
 
Pity we have a dearth of quality midfielders tat this time. Concur on Shelvey, squad selection might well be attainable for him
 
What is very good with this thread is that we all England to do well,we all are on the same side..but with different ideas.
But does anybody think,like i do,that Southgate is too much the same as Hodgson? It never worked with Roy and i have not much hope it will with GS.
we seem to be so slow,always the same.
The last game,the pitch was wet,the ball wet..there keeper,unknown, good who knows...but with a wet ball and pitch,put him under pressure,...have a few long shots,if we score early,then maybe they will crumble...but we dont shoot,its pass,pass,pass.

The biggest surprise in the game for me was that Kane shot at the goal from the penalty spot.I was half expecting him to pass to someone(poor joke,maybe).
But when was the last time we saw a distance shot at goal that went in.If you watch other games,which we all do,you see it far more often.
Last but not least...Southgate told us when we play better teams,we are better.Again im not sure..remember the 2nd half v France...10 v 11(Englishmen)..we were played off the park and they should have scored 4or5 in only the 2nd half alone
 
What is very good with this thread is that we all England to do well,we all are on the same side..but with different ideas.
But does anybody think,like i do,that Southgate is too much the same as Hodgson? It never worked with Roy and i have not much hope it will with GS.
we seem to be so slow,always the same.
The last game,the pitch was wet,the ball wet..there keeper,unknown, good who knows...but with a wet ball and pitch,put him under pressure,...have a few long shots,if we score early,then maybe they will crumble...but we dont shoot,its pass,pass,pass.

The biggest surprise in the game for me was that Kane shot at the goal from the penalty spot.I was half expecting him to pass to someone(poor joke,maybe).
But when was the last time we saw a distance shot at goal that went in.If you watch other games,which we all do,you see it far more often.
Last but not least...Southgate told us when we play better teams,we are better.Again im not sure..remember the 2nd half v France...10 v 11(Englishmen)..we were played off the park and they should have scored 4or5 in only the 2nd half alone

Marcus Rashford against Slovakia about five weeks ago.
 
ok,that was a miss hit:smile:

But i think you know what i mean
 
Not so keen on Hart as first choice in goal - Heaton or Butland anyone?

I'd be disappointed if Hart were picked for both the upcoming friendlies. We won't learn anything new about him, so give Butland and/or Forster a go. I assume Heaton will still be injured?
 
Ah yes, forgot about Heaton's injury at Palace. Butland and Forster must each be given a full 90 mins surely. Terrific save by Butland from Keane's misguided clearance on Sunday.
 
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