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Thread: I think we should all take a moment....

  
  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by onceknownasrab View Post
    So far in this thread you have suggested the anti-PB squad were the same people that wanted Dave Smith out. Now you are saying that the anti-PB fans won't accept facts about budgets. This is why I take exception to your posts. I for one thought Dave Smith was great and never wanted him out and I don't question what others know about the budgets. In support of PB you group all the anti's together and slag them off in a generalised way. It's nonsense. I am anti because, in my opinion, we can do better and PB should do better, with what has been made available. If you just answered points brought up, instead of using every post to be condescending to those that disagree with you, I could acknowledge far more some of the good points you have made.
    Firstly I did say the old brigade. I had you down as a starry eyed youth during the Dave Smith era and just like myself had to listen to some of the moaners every game....Note.... There is more of it now days by all ages and some of it is abusive and vile, especially social media.

    If you could acknowledge some good things about the club/team/manager, then your criticisms might hold more sway.

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by rigsby View Post
    Firstly I did say the old brigade. I had you down as a starry eyed youth during the Dave Smith era and just like myself had to listen to some of the moaners every game....Note.... There is more of it now days by all ages and some of it is abusive and vile, especially social media.

    If you could acknowledge some good things about the club/team/manager,
    then your criticisms might hold more sway.
    Clearly shows you do not read my posts.

  3. #48

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    Timothy Hardiman sound like a bitter man who have grudges against PB, no matter what PB do, he want him out.
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  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    Dave Smith was extremely poorly dealt with at the end. Awful.

    However, prior to that, we bought players like Derek Spence and it also shouldn't be forgotten that he kept his job even after we got relegated. A decision that proved fruitful, as the 80-81 season bore witness to.

    In our history, the best and most successful managers - Rowley, Smith, Webb, Tilly - all were given time (6,7 or 8 years) and it proved beneficial, so I think the chairmen have supported the right guys at our club, over the years.
    Dave Smith was sacked in June 83 when Anton Johnson bought a controlling interest in the club from the Rubin brothers who I guess had lost interest then. Cusack and Otulakowski had been sold to Millwall at the beginning of March for £60k. Smith's last 16 games brought 2 wins 8 draws and 6 defeats with no wins in the last 9. He was left playing 5 of 6 youngsters Nelson, Greaves, Walker, May, Owers and Pennyfather. The last two home games had attendances of less than 2000.

    There was nothing in the Anton Johnson era that was not dealt with extremely poorly. We could quite easily have gone out of business then.

    Which Christmas did the club steal the fans Christmas Club money? And can anyone remember the club featuring on ITV's World in Action investigative programme?

    At the end of the day having a good owner is more important than having a good manager.

  5. #50

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    Yep, awful times.

    I remember when I travelled away in the early eighties, there used to be a fella who went to most games and he absolutely detested the Rubins and always started up the chants against the chairmen at most games.

    He got his wish in 1983 and then look what happened.

    As they say, be careful what you wish for.

    Hence, I think we should maybe look at the here and now as a great time to be a Southend supporter.

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by LBBlue View Post

    At the end of the day having a good owner is more important than having a good manager.
    .... and a good, rich owner with the wherewithal to make things happen is even better.

  7. #52

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    I remember all the goal kicks ...." "OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH RUBEN OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!""

  8. #53
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    One of the biggest problems for Southend and clubs like us is parachute payments given to clubs relegated from the premier league. A club our size can not hope to compete against clubs with budgets multiple times more than ours.
    How Burton Albion are still in the championship is frankly astonishing and for me it's not far off Leicester's achievements a couple of seasons ago.
    A cup run every season would be lovely and I share the frustrations of everyone but the policy of investing in the academy has to be the right one and the best thing the club have done since I've been a supporter.

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by danburyshrimper View Post
    I remember all the goal kicks ...." "OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH RUBEN OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!""
    LOL .. That was it.

    Or "We want Rubins out, say we want Rubins out!"

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    .... and a good, rich owner with the wherewithal to make things happen is even better.
    Back to square one then. Orient had rich owners and they have certainly made things happen. Taken them to places none of their fans would have dreamt of just a few years ago.
    Last edited by rigsby; 14-11-2017 at 09:00 PM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigsby View Post
    My info comes from someone who knows exactly what our budget is. PB also confirmed it in an interview with an up and coming journo who is a shrimper.....As is his dad.

    We have gone down this road before about wages. The Brown out boys refuse to accept the facts because it leaves them with no argument.

    PS had a budget which was about 9th in L2. PB's was about 7th when we won in the Play off final. About £1.4m, with a maximum wage of £1500 per week. Which as you would know from your football connections doesn't buy you a decent forward. For example Danny Kedwell was on £2000 per week at Ebbsfleet in the Conference South last season. The biggest moan when we were in L2 was always "why don't we sign a striker".....The reason was wages, nothing else.

    Up to date.... We have sold Bentley and Payne for decent money with more to come. The academy has a growing reputation. Obviously we lose our best prospects before they ever get to play for us, 6 of last seasons under 18's had already moved on before we lost to Orient in the Youth cup. Since Ricky Duncan arrived over 20 lads have gone on to play first team football at various clubs.

    Now before you all scream about the big boys stealing our future, it actually helps us sign players if they and their parents see a pathway to success. Some have chose us over clubs with a grade 2 academy. We have more to come from Dru and Elvis and although Kyp signed when he was 18 its great to see a young lad progressing nicely with us. He was playing better every match and was our best player on the day up until he was injured at Doncaster. Lets hope he recovers soon.

    When PB arrived he talked Ron into spending £150,000 on the training ground as he believed that was more important than anything else. Forget about what we might have earned in a cup run with 3rd round tie against Stoke reserves. Our best place to earn money is from the academy and that will happen long after PB has gone.

    In the meantime lets enjoy where we are and enjoy the journey to wherever we might be heading. I'm off to Pompey on Saturday and part of the fun is the train ride down, not just the game itself.....Who cares about "why aren't we there yet" because the Championship whilst still at RH would be like turning up at a shoot out with a snubnosed pistol.
    Good post, the only bit I disagree with is expectations vs budget. If I am a chairman I fully expect my manager to achieve better than the budget. If not what’s the point of retaining a manager, you are basically saying you will only get success through a bigger budget. The only time this doesn’t apply is if your budget is in the top two or you are new and/or building for next season

    I work for a very progressive Fortune 500 company, to get 100% of my bonus I have to exceed expectations for my role. This approach means that overachieving is “ the norm” and is the target everyone sets themselves. I expect the same from a manager, so to me we should be above where our budget places us as the absolute minimum. If we finish only a few places above our budget I would not see that as success, unless we are in the playoffs.

    yes I have high expectations, why not?

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by united we stand View Post
    Good post, the only bit I disagree with is expectations vs budget. If I am a chairman I fully expect my manager to achieve better than the budget. If not what’s the point of retaining a manager, you are basically saying you will only get success through a bigger budget. The only time this doesn’t apply is if your budget is in the top two or you are new and/or building for next season

    I work for a very progressive Fortune 500 company, to get 100% of my bonus I have to exceed expectations for my role. This approach means that overachieving is “ the norm” and is the target everyone sets themselves. I expect the same from a manager, so to me we should be above where our budget places us as the absolute minimum. If we finish only a few places above our budget I would not see that as success, unless we are in the playoffs.

    yes I have high expectations, why not?
    With respect your in an industry where only the profit at the end of the year matters. My last job with the Fire Brigade I was behind a desk and had to manage a team to fit smoke alarms. Just like everyone else in the modern world we had targets to achieve. We did so with ease and I got lots of praise from all the 'smoke dodgers' up the chain of command. If only you could just make a few sales calls if you was on the football pitch or the fireground to give you 3 points or save a life but it is far more complicated than that.

    What if you were managing a sales team etc and lost your best 2 earners to a rival. Then your next best 2 lads broke a leg or pulled hamstring etc and couldn't be in the office for 3 months. Do you have linesman walking around flagging a perfectly good sale off-side.

    Do you have to train any young people or recruit people. If so how successful are you? Do you have hundreds of people who don't really know anything about your job standing behind you and giving you abuse?

    The over used cliché is that football is in the entertainment business. It is to an extent but results are more important.

    The fact is no club let alone one that has spent over 100 years in the lower leagues can punch above their weight every year. A friend of mine met PS on the train just after he had arrived that summer. I believe he was on his way back from the FA at Lancaster Gate during that period when all looked lost. When I heard what was said I really thought it could be the end for us as a club. If we survived then probably the Conference and who knows after that.

    We have not only survived but been promoted and finished 7th. Now when you consider we managed that without the help of the Russians, Chinese or criminals like at Leicester that makes me more than happy. I see a good future ahead for us but still have my doubts about the promised land of 'Ron World'. In the meantime lets all enjoy the moment.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    LOL .. That was it.

    Or "We want Rubins out, say we want Rubins out!"
    There she was just a walking down the street
    singing Rubins out Rubins out Rubins out
    Clicking her fingers and Shuffling her feet
    singing Rubins out Rubins out Rubins out
    etc etc

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigsby View Post
    With respect your in an industry where only the profit at the end of the year matters. My last job with the Fire Brigade I was behind a desk and had to manage a team to fit smoke alarms. Just like everyone else in the modern world we had targets to achieve. We did so with ease and I got lots of praise from all the 'smoke dodgers' up the chain of command. If only you could just make a few sales calls if you was on the football pitch or the fireground to give you 3 points or save a life but it is far more complicated than that.

    What if you were managing a sales team etc and lost your best 2 earners to a rival. Then your next best 2 lads broke a leg or pulled hamstring etc and couldn't be in the office for 3 months. Do you have linesman walking around flagging a perfectly good sale off-side.

    Do you have to train any young people or recruit people. If so how successful are you? Do you have hundreds of people who don't really know anything about your job standing behind you and giving you abuse?

    The over used cliché is that football is in the entertainment business. It is to an extent but results are more important.

    The fact is no club let alone one that has spent over 100 years in the lower leagues can punch above their weight every year. A friend of mine met PS on the train just after he had arrived that summer. I believe he was on his way back from the FA at Lancaster Gate during that period when all looked lost. When I heard what was said I really thought it could be the end for us as a club. If we survived then probably the Conference and who knows after that.

    We have not only survived but been promoted and finished 7th. Now when you consider we managed that without the help of the Russians, Chinese or criminals like at Leicester that makes me more than happy. I see a good future ahead for us but still have my doubts about the promised land of 'Ron World'. In the meantime lets all enjoy the moment.
    I don’t think you have understood my post, maybe my fault if I was no very clear. I gave the analogy as the company I work Started from nothing 35 years ago (and not by a super rich man, and had regularly taken over much bigger companies because of its groundbreaking approach. A snall part of that relates to how we see success.

    I dont one work in sales, and I don’t have my targets set for me- I do it. I don’t face all of the issues Phil does, but then he doesn’t face the issues I do , you mentioned some examples so I will counter with he doesn’t face to deal with the rules changing, but no one has told the ref, fixtures being brought forward last minute, 2 games the same day etc.( and I don’t gave hundreds who don’t know what I do ding my praises either �� it cuts both ways). But anyway that doesn’t matter , my point is purely about the fact that people often use the stat of our league position vs budget. I think that’s a good stat , however my point is simply because hat I expect my manager to achieve better than that gat. ( hence the analogy with my work). If we gave the 10th biggest budget and achieve 10th some will se that as fair enough I don’t.

    refarding your statement at the end on this can not always be achieved- why not? It’s that approach, vision and thinking that makes sucesses- look at ostersunds for a football example

  15. #60

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    I think there's a difference between hope and expectation, especially in football.

    PB wants to get us promoted, not least because it will also raise his profile. I don't think he is settling for less. We would all love to be top, like Shrewsbury and yes, it's not unreachable. Of course, not.

    However, there is a difference between this dream and the reality of the situation.

    In short, there's nothing wrong with aiming for the stars, but if you don't reach them, it's not a failure to finish roughly where your expectations are set.

    The key is not to finish below this and, year on year, under PB we haven't.

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