• Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.

    Existing Users:.
    Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.

    New Users:
    Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.

    Fans from other clubs
    We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.

    Assistance Required
    For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.

Blues striker Ranger fit to face Portsmouth - despite his 'dodgy' ankles

Football has changed, though, hasn't it.

Years ago, your strikers were the people you relied on to get the goals, but goals are scored far more regularly now from midfield and defence.

Take us, for instance. We scored 70 goals last season, with Cox scoring 16 and some of those from penalties. So 77% of our goals were not scored by our top scoring striker, yet we managed a healthy total anyway.
 
Overall, our scouting setup needs to be more effective. The current lazy reliance on 'names' from higher divisions, many injury prone and long past their best is short termism in the extreme and will leave us in a weak position before too long. On the specific question of strikers we should be looking for a couple who can put the ball in the net, whether from league or non league football or further afield regardless. Granted the latter options would be a gamble but signing Fortune (and I appreciate his other qualities but he is not a goalscorer), Robinson and Ranger was not even a gamble, it was never ever going to lead to a goal feast on their past records. The same with Cox to a lesser extent. To expect him to replicate the goalscoring form of his youth after six or seven years when he could hardly buy a goal was unrealistic. Although last season he exceeded expectations we have seen this season a reversion to what has been tne norm. Obviously, there is no easy answer, but we have done it in the past with some success. It just appears that the present management is too reliant on the old boys club. The signing of Ba seemed a welcome breath of fresh air, but he needs some meaningful game time to see if he has the goods.

Ba has no goalscoring record. The signing of him was based on a trial. You've completely contradicted yourself.
 
In the second example it would be B, he has scored more and as you say a goal is a goal. I personally think it doesn't matter too much who scores them; i would be happy to have 2 strikers on 10 and the rest of team chipping in. At the end of the day if we grab a playoff place and go up, does it really matter?

Football has changed, though, hasn't it.

Years ago, your strikers were the people you relied on to get the goals, but goals are scored far more regularly now from midfield and defence.

Take us, for instance. We scored 70 goals last season, with Cox scoring 16 and some of those from penalties. So 77% of our goals were not scored by our top scoring striker, yet we managed a healthy total anyway.
.



Completely agree, in fact I would rather we were not relying on one person ( and the “fact” that you need a 30 goal a season striker to get promoted has been statistically proven as incorrect). If we gat person is injured/ off form then you are in trouble. I was simply explaing why some of think the number of penalties is an important element to a players goal scoring stats
 
Yep, agreed. Football is more interchangeable. A kind of poor man's total football, at our level.

Years back, you tended to have your front two/three scoring the goals, your midfield creating them and your defence stopping them. In simplistic terms.

The emphasis now is on strikers dropping deep, midfielders getting beyond the forwards, defenders carrying the ball forward and so on.

Gone are the days of a Dixie Dean scoring 60 goals in a season.
 
Ba has no goalscoring record. The signing of him was based on a trial. You've completely contradicted yourself.
Not at all. Suggest you read my post more carefully. I advocated going beyond the usual sources of recruitment favoured by the present regime to find talent from farther afield, acknowledging it would be a gamble. Nothing contradictory about that, in any case, he hasn't played enough games to acquire a goalscoring record,which is also why I said he needed some game time.Sadly, we have all the evidence we need about the goal potential of the four other strikers.
 
Yep, agreed. Football is more interchangeable. A kind of poor man's total football, at our level.

Years back, you tended to have your front two/three scoring the goals, your midfield creating them and your defence stopping them. In simplistic terms.

The emphasis now is on strikers dropping deep, midfielders getting beyond the forwards, defenders carrying the ball forward and so on.

Gone are the days of a Dixie Dean scoring 60 goals in a season.

60 goals from a total of 102 compare that to last years top scorer Kane , getting 29 out of 86.....
 
Not at all. Suggest you read my post more carefully. I advocated going beyond the usual sources of recruitment favoured by the present regime to find talent from farther afield, acknowledging it would be a gamble. Nothing contradictory about that, in any case, he hasn't played enough games to acquire a goalscoring record,which is also why I said he needed some game time.Sadly, we have all the evidence we need about the goal potential of the four other strikers.

But to give Ba a long run could cost us our place in league 1 and cost the management their jobs. Luckily the current regime has worked for a few years improving league places every year which is a fact.

Do you believe if we got strikers who could finish better they we would score tons of goals? Do you think our strikers are getting enough chances created for them/service?
 
Indeed.

Forwards are an all-round package, these days.

It's not just about how many goals they score.
 
Overall, our scouting setup needs to be more effective. The current lazy reliance on 'names' from higher divisions, many injury prone and long past their best is short termism in the extreme and will leave us in a weak position before too long. On the specific question of strikers we should be looking for a couple who can put the ball in the net, whether from league or non league football or further afield regardless. Granted the latter options would be a gamble but signing Fortune (and I appreciate his other qualities but he is not a goalscorer), Robinson and Ranger was not even a gamble, it was never ever going to lead to a goal feast on their past records. The same with Cox to a lesser extent. To expect him to replicate the goalscoring form of his youth after six or seven years when he could hardly buy a goal was unrealistic. Although last season he exceeded expectations we have seen this season a reversion to what has been tne norm. Obviously, there is no easy answer, but we have done it in the past with some success. It just appears that the present management is too reliant on the old boys club. The signing of Ba seemed a welcome breath of fresh air, but he needs some meaningful game time to see if he has the goods.

The club don't want to sign the sort of gambles you are talking about. Nothing to do with being lazy. How many goals has £250,000 Ricky Miller scored for Peterborough. How about that Essex Senior league hot shot Liam Nash at Gillingham.

We did try to sign Lee Novak in the summer 2016 but because he had scored a whopping 14 goals the previous season, Charlton offered him £2,000 per week more than us and he would have been our top earner.

So instead we signed one of those old boys you mention. People are forgetting that as well as 16 goals Cox had another 10 assists. Proper assist at that, disguised passes etc.

We scored 70 goals in L1. Only Tilly's champions have bettered that with 72.
 
I think Rigsby you may have forgotten to mention the millions Peterborough have made from taking such gambles and why they are viewed as having by far the best model for growth and financial stability in the division. For every effort you make to find a player to disparage ( finding talent in the lower leagues ) it is equally possible to name many who have been a significant success .
The fact is as you point out the club do not like to take these risks any more, whether thats from the lower leagues , abroad or elsewhere, others do however and are quite successful at it. It therefore raises legitimate questions about the scouting model and philosophy
 
I think Rigsby you may have forgotten to mention the millions Peterborough have made from taking such gambles and why they are viewed as having by far the best model for growth and financial stability in the division. For every effort you make to find a player to disparage ( finding talent in the lower leagues ) it is equally possible to name many who have been a significant success .
The fact is as you point out the club do not like to take these risks any more, whether thats from the lower leagues , abroad or elsewhere, others do however and are quite successful at it. It therefore raises legitimate questions about the scouting model and philosophy

They may have made a lot in player sales, but they are operating at a loss as they are having to pay over the odds for these gambles and only a small proportion come off.
 
I ve3g to differ and think a reasonable proportion come off, I wouldnt mind our club making £14milloin on a few gambles. What was that other gamble we made from Grays?
 
They may have made a lot in player sales, but they are operating at a loss as they are having to pay over the odds for these gambles and only a small proportion come off.

Indeed. I read a study that showed if you had spent £10m on all the big non league names over that period you would only have made £5m on future sales. Great if you pick the best 3, break even on the next few but a disaster if you pick the majority who failed.
 
You don't need to take a load of gambles, though.

You just need to identify who you need and get them, if money allows.

As a club, we've done pretty well at that lately. Getting rid of loan players we don't think fit the bill. Moving on players who aren't quite up to standard. Bringing through youngsters who we either sold on for profit or are becoming part of the first team set up.

I think we're doing very well, in truth and have some really talented coaches working below first team level. I really don't think we need to worry about other club's business models.
 
I ve3g to differ and think a reasonable proportion come off, I wouldnt mind our club making £14milloin on a few gambles. What was that other gamble we made from Grays?


We are investing in things like goalkeeping coaches. You may have noticed we are doing rather well in that department, including turning Ox into one of the best in L1. Guess what its cheaper than buying Ricky Miller.
 
I think the record shows £21.6m for the sale of 8 players, guess what the key aspect was ? could it be grabbing them from the lower league. Gillinghams current top goalscorer is Eaves, let me know where he came from? p.s. Hes got 6 and is in the top 10
 
We are investing in things like goalkeeping coaches. You may have noticed we are doing rather well in that department, including turning Ox into one of the best in L1. Guess what its cheaper than buying Ricky Miller.

Totally agree and its brilliant, I think we have done a fantastic job in this regard and enormous efforts and success with the academy, something to be really proud of and hopefully long may it continue and will also build our future
 
I think the record shows £21.6m for the sale of 8 players, guess what the key aspect was ? could it be grabbing them from the lower league. Gillinghams current top goalscorer is Eaves, let me know where he came from? p.s. Hes got 6 and is in the top 10

Which 8 players are we talking about.

I know you like all things Gillingham but can I just remind you that if we hadn't of been so kind to them they would already be in L2 and we let Eaves score his hat-rick this year. They are currently 22nd in L1
 
Interesting conversation.

It is also worth mentioning that it is not possible that we (say all the clubs in Divisions 3 & 4) all go out buying the best talent in the lower divisions.

Instead Southend United would seem to be taking an approach of using older players. I have no problem with that - just like non-league talent, some will work out and some won't.

And I can't see that is "lazy" either - it is simply a different approach.

I would like to see that balanced with the development of younger players and I think we are getting some results there.
 
Back
Top