Mick
Life President
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2003
- Messages
- 10,966
They do both !
-
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Jack Bridge
- Thread starter mattitouk
- Start date
They do both !
Yes, I know they do 'Mick'. I accept the sentence could read better with a "just" added between "than" and "playing".
But my point is the same, regardless. Footballers don't have that set-up in-between the equivalent of club cricket and first team cricket.
It's the equivalent of asking Nick Browne to open the batting for South Woodford and then go straight in at Old Trafford and open the batting against Jimmy Anderson. What Nick has, is the chance to drop to 2nd XI level to get some form back, as well.
... and it's also why the EPL, as 'davidicke' and others allude to, have a belief that they want U23 sides to play in the National League and Davison Four. Because they don't see U23 football as competitive enough.
Most U23 sides can't even beat Division 3 and 4 reserve sides, as the Check-a-Trade Trophy has proven.
The other week Man City, the best club on the field in the country at the moment, got beaten by a team mainly made-up of Lincoln City's reserves!
But my point is the same, regardless. Footballers don't have that set-up in-between the equivalent of club cricket and first team cricket.
It's the equivalent of asking Nick Browne to open the batting for South Woodford and then go straight in at Old Trafford and open the batting against Jimmy Anderson. What Nick has, is the chance to drop to 2nd XI level to get some form back, as well.
... and it's also why the EPL, as 'davidicke' and others allude to, have a belief that they want U23 sides to play in the National League and Davison Four. Because they don't see U23 football as competitive enough.
Most U23 sides can't even beat Division 3 and 4 reserve sides, as the Check-a-Trade Trophy has proven.
The other week Man City, the best club on the field in the country at the moment, got beaten by a team mainly made-up of Lincoln City's reserves!
LBBlue
Manager⭐
I have come to the conclusion that really having and under 23 side and 7 subs means we give a lot of hype to players who really aren't going to be up to it.
I put this list of players who going back over 50 years have started as youths with us and made a living from the game on another thread :
Bobby Kellard
Frank Banks
Peter Hunt
Paul Clark
Phil Dudley
John Keeley
Gary Nelson
Glenn Pennyfather
Spencer Prior
Justin Edinburgh
Leo Roget
Andy Edwards
Paul Smith
Leon Johnson
do we count Mel Capelton and Alex Woodyard?
Dan Bentley
Jack Payne
There aren't that many and they all probably had clocked up a fair number of first team games well before their 20th birthdays
others who looked promising but fell by the wayside
Sean Rafter
Nicky Smith
John Gymer
Nicky Smith
Danny Greaves
Paul Denny
Steve Brown
Jae Martin
Christian Hyslop
Trevor Fitzpatrick
Danny Webb
James Lawson
Johnny Herd
Stuart O Keefe
Franc Moussa
Kane Ferdinand (at least we got money for him!")
Then there's the likes of
Ray White
Chris Barnard
Frank Matthews
Dave Barnett
Steve Dyer
Steve Lamb
David Keefe
Jeff Hull
Warren May
John Walker
Micky Engwell
Harry Crawford
Adrian Owers
John Seaden
Jamie Southon
Scott Ashenden
Danny Kerrigan
who didn't really do much.
Tony Hadley, Steve Tilson, Simon Royce and Andy Polycarpou came from local junior sides as did Peter Taylor.
So in conclusion I actually think we are expecting much too much of our young players - hardly any will make it full time -most are just kept on so we can field an under 23 side and fill 7 places on the bench. Their abilities are probably over hyped and Jack Bridge probably falls into this category.
What we are not doing now though is picking up youngsters who have been released from first and second division clubs eg Chris Powell , or dare I say it non league and fourth division eg Bill Garner, Freddy, Dean Austin.
I put this list of players who going back over 50 years have started as youths with us and made a living from the game on another thread :
Bobby Kellard
Frank Banks
Peter Hunt
Paul Clark
Phil Dudley
John Keeley
Gary Nelson
Glenn Pennyfather
Spencer Prior
Justin Edinburgh
Leo Roget
Andy Edwards
Paul Smith
Leon Johnson
do we count Mel Capelton and Alex Woodyard?
Dan Bentley
Jack Payne
There aren't that many and they all probably had clocked up a fair number of first team games well before their 20th birthdays
others who looked promising but fell by the wayside
Sean Rafter
Nicky Smith
John Gymer
Nicky Smith
Danny Greaves
Paul Denny
Steve Brown
Jae Martin
Christian Hyslop
Trevor Fitzpatrick
Danny Webb
James Lawson
Johnny Herd
Stuart O Keefe
Franc Moussa
Kane Ferdinand (at least we got money for him!")
Then there's the likes of
Ray White
Chris Barnard
Frank Matthews
Dave Barnett
Steve Dyer
Steve Lamb
David Keefe
Jeff Hull
Warren May
John Walker
Micky Engwell
Harry Crawford
Adrian Owers
John Seaden
Jamie Southon
Scott Ashenden
Danny Kerrigan
who didn't really do much.
Tony Hadley, Steve Tilson, Simon Royce and Andy Polycarpou came from local junior sides as did Peter Taylor.
So in conclusion I actually think we are expecting much too much of our young players - hardly any will make it full time -most are just kept on so we can field an under 23 side and fill 7 places on the bench. Their abilities are probably over hyped and Jack Bridge probably falls into this category.
What we are not doing now though is picking up youngsters who have been released from first and second division clubs eg Chris Powell , or dare I say it non league and fourth division eg Bill Garner, Freddy, Dean Austin.
Last edited:
Firestorm
Pedant
Micky Engwell was another youth teamer who made a few first team appearances and then disappeared
James Lawson played against man Utd
Also Johnny Herd .
Were McSweeney and Hislop youth products ?
Who was left back who made a number of First team appearances before ending up at Billericay ?
James Lawson played against man Utd
Also Johnny Herd .
Were McSweeney and Hislop youth products ?
Who was left back who made a number of First team appearances before ending up at Billericay ?
Mick
Life President
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2003
- Messages
- 10,966
Teddy Nesbitt ?
Billericay are but one of many local non-league teams he's played for. Think he's at Canvey now but he's changed clubs so often, it's hard to keep up !
rigsby
Life President⭐
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2014
- Messages
- 17,047
Can't see the under 23's format changing to much anytime soon. The days of a reserve league on a Saturday are long gone for many reasons, so Tuesdays are best. Not least because the manger, coach etc can be at the game.
Under 23's is really a reserve fixture anyway, as players who didn't feature on the Saturday or need 45 minutes returning from injury can play regardless of age. So it is certainly a step up from a proper under 21's league and gives lads over 18 a further chance as they would have been released not the long ago. There are downside to that as well.
The benefit a promising young lad has at Southend over say one at Chelsea is that he spends much more time playing against the first team squad. The PL set ups are so vast now that they don't even train with the big boys. Read John Terry's account about his younger days. Hanging around after his own training hoping the main squad may need another CB to fill in for 10 minutes.
They get plenty of those chances in L1. Whenever there are 10/11-a-side scenarios they are involved. Even more so in the last 2 years as Ben Clarkson has a permanent queue outside his porto cabin. That's why the PL are keen on loans, not just match experience but spending the whole week playing against experience pros. If you watch the training it is far more physical than the under 18's etc.
Any of our lads that show any promise will get their chance....In the under 18's the under 23's, training, Check-a-trade, on the bench, coming on as a sub and even starting for the first team.
My advise to any of them.....If PB gives you a whistle and calls you over to fill in at say RB for ten minutes . Then try and show you can handle McL or who ever......If you stand there shoulder hunched more worried about your gloves or snood, looking like the kid who hates PE.....Then your chances will be far less than the next kid.
Under 23's is really a reserve fixture anyway, as players who didn't feature on the Saturday or need 45 minutes returning from injury can play regardless of age. So it is certainly a step up from a proper under 21's league and gives lads over 18 a further chance as they would have been released not the long ago. There are downside to that as well.
The benefit a promising young lad has at Southend over say one at Chelsea is that he spends much more time playing against the first team squad. The PL set ups are so vast now that they don't even train with the big boys. Read John Terry's account about his younger days. Hanging around after his own training hoping the main squad may need another CB to fill in for 10 minutes.
They get plenty of those chances in L1. Whenever there are 10/11-a-side scenarios they are involved. Even more so in the last 2 years as Ben Clarkson has a permanent queue outside his porto cabin. That's why the PL are keen on loans, not just match experience but spending the whole week playing against experience pros. If you watch the training it is far more physical than the under 18's etc.
Any of our lads that show any promise will get their chance....In the under 18's the under 23's, training, Check-a-trade, on the bench, coming on as a sub and even starting for the first team.
My advise to any of them.....If PB gives you a whistle and calls you over to fill in at say RB for ten minutes . Then try and show you can handle McL or who ever......If you stand there shoulder hunched more worried about your gloves or snood, looking like the kid who hates PE.....Then your chances will be far less than the next kid.
FarmdogSUFC
The Custard Splat - Southend United Fan Podcast
For whatever reason he simply hasn't really had a proper chance but the few times he has played I've never really been overly impressed, although it is hard to make an impact with the chances he has been given. Best for both parties if he leaves. Hope he does well though.
Firestorm
Pedant
londonblue
Topgun Pilot
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2004
- Messages
- 19,195
Personally I wouldn't bring on a young, inexperienced sub when we're losing. That's tantamount to throwing in the towel. Therefore the only game in that list that I agree with is the Fleetwood one.
LBBlue
Manager⭐
I'm of the age when its easier to remember the older ones rather than the later ones and Franc Moussa of course.
Firestorm
Pedant
Moose was hardly a product of our Yoof, he signed when he had been release by Cambridge as a 16 year old..
We signed O Keefe at 16 after he had been released by Ipswich
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