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Some interesting stats, Barry, but aren't they a bit skewed to suit an agenda?

As 'norwich' says, above, they have to all be taken into context and there has to be a balance. For example, some of those named played alongside people who were scoring. Corr, Payne, Cox, Wordsworth, McLaughlin and so on. They were part of a successful side. That said, pretty much all of them weren't first choice starters. They were put into the squad to help and assist with the gameplan in place.

The 2014/15 season saw us fail to score many goals, but we didn't need to as, often, 1-0 was enough, so Pigott's goals, coupled with plenty from Corr and others, gave us the basis to get over the line in most games, with contributions from midfielders like Worrall and Timlin.

After this, we brought in a bit more quality and so the likes of Nouble and Loza spent all their time on the bench. I can't even remember Loza starting a match for us.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of whether player A was a good signing, the bottom line is that (and I include Sturrock in this), we went from an absolute mess in August 2010, to 7th in League One, without spending much money at all, based on good management of the squads assembled by both.

This season is a different matter, but it shouldn't be forgotten that PB had only one remit given to him and that was to get us into the Championship in the year left on his contract, so he couldn't go for up and coming players from lower divisions or decent pros at League One level, he recruited players who had done it at the higher level to add to those we already had. We even managed to hold on to Lenny, to bolster the plans.

What has happened since, granted, has been far less than hoped and expected and we are where we are now.

Maybe lessons have been learned by PB, but I hope also by people who think that we have a given right to be in the Championship.

With our budget and restrictions, we should have been content with stabilizing a little while longer at this level and bringing our own players through, but that wasn't what RM or a lot of supporters wanted and the rest is history.
 
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I think they did. Certainly Bentley and Lenny. The latter in particular was undoubtedly the one who stands out. He developed into the holding midfielder we now see under Brown. I recall many fans saying Lenny's career was being held back by Brown's insistence at playing him deep - well, look at him now!

In almost five years in charge, it is impossible to ignore the fact that Brown had plenty to do with Lenny's progress. I think, in time, people will acknowledge PB's role in this and his also that his tenure was a successful one overall. Despite whether they liked the man or not.

I don’t agree, I think Leonard was just maturing as a footballer, and the same with the others... look at their ages.
 
Very fair points Andy and a good summary. I have a bit of an agenda for the past few years essentially about our scouting arrangements and recruitment processes. , which I hope will at least be decently reviewed. I acknowledged the good signings at the outset and agreed with them, but thought it might be helpful to add to the debate with some broader statistical analysis. I did my best to reflect them accurately. People can put their own interpretation on them and many did which actually has enhanced the debate and opinions significantly, including a decent list of all Browns signings and Norwichs valuable comments. I have also never had an agenda for Brown out by the way
 
Thanks, Barry. Apologies on the agenda thing. It looked like it was an anti-PB thing, but I can see it's more about the points you've mentioned.

I do agree that our scouting and recruitment hasn't been great and it will be interesting under the new fella, next week, as to how they go about it.

I think the risk taking on PB was that having managed at Premier League level, he wouldn't find it easy to develop players from a much lower level, that he possibly saw as unlikely to reach the standards he requires.

That's been true of many of those named in this thread. They did a job at League Two level, but once into League One, it was clear they were unlikely to be up to it and PB has been right on that. When you look at the likes of Straker, Weston, Coulthirst, Pigott and so on, they are all plying their trade in the National League or League Two now.

From there, he identified players he felt could cut it at Leagie One level and again this was proved right, as we finished 7th.

The wheels have come off when we have tried to get to the next stage, but can't get the players in we need because to get Chamionship standard players, we would have to pay wages we just can't afford.

'Exile' mentions getting decent League One players in and he is right, but I think PB and RM hit the panic button in the summer, coupled with the FF plans developing a bit further and thought we could draft in experience and get out of this division.

Back to the drawing board now and hopefully, as you say, we can re-look at what we are trying to achieve and start again, like Col Ewe have started to do with their academy players coming through.
 
They did a job at League Two level, but once into League One, it was clear they were unlikely to be up to it and PB has been right on that. When you look at the likes of Straker, Weston, Coulthirst, Pigott and so on, they are all plying their trade in the National League or League Two now.

Pigott dropped down to non-league, and to his home town club, which I think was a great move as it allowed him to focus and build some confidence and enjoy scoring at will alongside a couple of others, and has this week signed for AFC Wimbledon, in our division.
 
I don’t agree, I think Leonard was just maturing as a footballer, and the same with the others... look at their ages.

Brown still had to play them, if he'd just let Leonard stay on the bench instead of taking a chance on him every week, despite being a bit inexperienced, he wouldn't have developed anywhere near as quickly as he did, we possibly would have even offloaded him to another club to free up wages. As others have said as well Leonard was a RB/RM when Brown came here, Brown is the one who recognised that his best position was in the middle.
 
Pigott dropped down to non-league, and to his home town club, which I think was a great move as it allowed him to focus and build some confidence and enjoy scoring at will alongside a couple of others, and has this week signed for AFC Wimbledon, in our division.

Apologies, didn't realize Pigott had signed for Wimbledon! :facepalm:

Fair points on him and hopefully he has improved, as he didn't look a natural goalscorer, when I've seen him, in truth.
 
Another good signing for me was Will Atkinson. A real team player with great energy who never gave less than 100%. He played a huge part in our success over the first 4 years of Brown's reign. We've missed him far more than most realised we would.


100% this, its hard to replace that energy in midfield......not the most technical footballer but worked his nuts off, strange that some of our fans couldn't wait to see the back of him, i'd rather him playing alongside me than against me
 
Apologies, didn't realize Pigott had signed for Wimbledon! :facepalm:

Fair points on him and hopefully he has improved, as he didn't look a natural goalscorer, when I've seen him, in truth.

Interesting view re Pigott...I thought when he was in on loan in our promotion season he looked like by far our best finisher, he was very good in front of goal, I remember 2 or 3 really clinical finishes.(Stevenage away was definitely one). However he wasn't really the complete player and there wasn't a lot more to his game...using Cassidy again as an example he looked a "better footballer" though wasn't a goal scorer. Pigott to my mind was an excellent finisher, but the limitations in the rest of his game meant he didn't have too many chances to prove that. It will be interesting to see how he does at Wimbledon, it is a big step from Conference to League 1 (bigger than the step he didn't really make from League 2 to League 1 a couple of years back).
 
Brown still had to play them, if he'd just let Leonard stay on the bench instead of taking a chance on him every week, despite being a bit inexperienced, he wouldn't have developed anywhere near as quickly as he did, we possibly would have even offloaded him to another club to free up wages. As others have said as well Leonard was a RB/RM when Brown came here, Brown is the one who recognised that his best position was in the middle.

The same people who will give PB no credit for Lenny's career were the very ones slagging Brown a few years ago for just for even playing Lenny in mid-field.


Remember posts like, the undroppable Lenny, one of Browns favourites, playing out of position and my personal favourite....L2 at best.
 
Interesting view re Pigott...I thought when he was in on loan in our promotion season he looked like by far our best finisher, he was very good in front of goal, I remember 2 or 3 really clinical finishes.(Stevenage away was definitely one). However he wasn't really the complete player and there wasn't a lot more to his game...using Cassidy again as an example he looked a "better footballer" though wasn't a goal scorer. Pigott to my mind was an excellent finisher, but the limitations in the rest of his game meant he didn't have too many chances to prove that. It will be interesting to see how he does at Wimbledon, it is a big step from Conference to League 1 (bigger than the step he didn't really make from League 2 to League 1 a couple of years back).

Agreed 'norwich' on some of his finishes, but I never really saw him as the type to get in the box and poach a few goals. Bit like Ranger. Always kind of in there but hoping it might drop to him, rather than making it happen.

He was also a nightmare with one-on-one chances. I remember at least two, where he had a nose bleed when through on the keeper. Just had no confidence, at all.
 
The same people who will give PB no credit for Lenny's career were the very ones slagging Brown a few years ago for just for even playing Lenny in mid-field.


Remember posts like, the undroppable Lenny, one of Browns favourites, playing out of position and my personal favourite....L2 at best.

They have both gone, I know you still don’t believe he has gone (a little bit like the remainers, Brexit) but Brown really has.
 
Agreed 'norwich' on some of his finishes, but I never really saw him as the type to get in the box and poach a few goals. Bit like Ranger. Always kind of in there but hoping it might drop to him, rather than making it happen.

He was also a nightmare with one-on-one chances. I remember at least two, where he had a nose bleed when through on the keeper. Just had no confidence, at all.

Agreed technically a good player, but it wasn't really there mentally.......he'll always be responsible for the greatest moment of my time watching the Shrimpers though, so I'll always remember him fondly!
 
They have both gone, I know you still don’t believe he has gone (a little bit like the remainers, Brexit) but Brown really has.

I'm so pleased the mods haven't sussed you yet, its good to have you back though :winking:
 
Agreed 'norwich' on some of his finishes, but I never really saw him as the type to get in the box and poach a few goals. Bit like Ranger. Always kind of in there but hoping it might drop to him, rather than making it happen.

He was also a nightmare with one-on-one chances. I remember at least two, where he had a nose bleed when through on the keeper. Just had no confidence, at all.

Again just like Ranger, who used to turn from Gangster to Bambi when it really mattered.
 
Brown still had to play them, if he'd just let Leonard stay on the bench instead of taking a chance on him every week, despite being a bit inexperienced, he wouldn't have developed anywhere near as quickly as he did, we possibly would have even offloaded him to another club to free up wages. As others have said as well Leonard was a RB/RM when Brown came here, Brown is the one who recognised that his best position was in the middle.

Sturrock played an inexperienced Leonard. By the time PB came along he was already one of our better players so he never really “took a chance” on him.
 
Sturrock played an inexperienced Leonard. By the time PB came along he was already one of our better players so he never really “took a chance” on him.

Leonard was an unused substitute in Sturrock's last two games in charge, if he was one of our better players why wasn't Sturrock making him the first name on the team sheet?
 
Interesting view re Pigott...I thought when he was in on loan in our promotion season he looked like by far our best finisher, he was very good in front of goal, I remember 2 or 3 really clinical finishes.(Stevenage away was definitely one). However he wasn't really the complete player and there wasn't a lot more to his game...using Cassidy again as an example he looked a "better footballer" though wasn't a goal scorer. Pigott to my mind was an excellent finisher, but the limitations in the rest of his game meant he didn't have too many chances to prove that. It will be interesting to see how he does at Wimbledon, it is a big step from Conference to League 1 (bigger than the step he didn't really make from League 2 to League 1 a couple of years back).

Piggott looked the beez nees until in one game he had a 1 on 1 with the keeper and fluffed it totally. After that, he seemed a different player, the only positive after that point was that goal
 
Leonard was an unused substitute in Sturrock's last two games in charge, if he was one of our better players why wasn't Sturrock making him the first name on the team sheet?

Probably why Sturrock got sacked... not playing our better players :). He had played around 40 games for us by then, aged 20. The season after he was out poty I think, so it’s hardly a gamble to put him in the team. He was clearly ready
 
I think this will be an interesting thread to maybe come back to in 1/2 years time as judging by comments made by staff, Brown was very involved in bringing through the academy players into the first team and therefore if players such as Kyprianou, Bwomono, Smith, Yearwood, Klass and Wabo go for decent transfer fees in the future, some of that will probably be attributable to Brown.
 
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