Breaking News Shrimpers face yet ANOTHER tax dispute

[EastStandBlue]

Sounds quite a heavy stance to be taking against the HMRC without RM, the Finance Director and the Clubs solicitor being 100% sure of this so I guess we'll just have to see how this pans out.

The way I see it is that the HMRC have had their noses put out of joint by changes to the law and are acting in their own interests by coming down hard, maybe unnecessarily, on football clubs. The HMRC may have made a slight error in totalling the sum owed and are sticking to their guns.

Needless to say, should the club win against this then it puts other payents sought after under discretion and every club served with a petition will be checking their accounts.

 

[onceknownasrab]

The only trouble is that HMRC are the obvious experts in these tax matters.
Who would you put your money on being right, HMRC or Ron's advisors.

Incredibly, HMRC make a lot of mistakes and very often not in the interests of the debtor. However, it would make more sense to 'render unto caesar what is caesars' until the mistake can be agreed upon by both parties.

 

[djcotez]

I hope this doesn't end up with another Transfer Embargo!

 

[grassroots]

I hope this doesn't end up with another Transfer Embargo!

Dont think we'd notice much difference.

 

[united we stand]

I guess the real question is

Did Ron factor all this is when we got the loan from Sainsbury’s?

IE did he borrow on the basis that the revenue figure was correct , which could mean that if the revenue agree they are wrong we have got £200,000 in cash to play with

or
Did he borrow knowing he was going to withhold the £200,000 PAYE in which case we could be in the brown stuff if he is wrong.

Ok- now the story is up on the website it says we didn't have enough time to check the figures and just paid . That implies that if we are right we have actually over borrowed £200,000. It would be great if this was resolved next week in our favour and some/all of the funds were given to Tilly

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

If we do end up with 200k in the coffers, can't we just pay off the pizza man aka the devil ?

 

[Lord Football]

He doesn't have a legal to stand on.

If there was an overpayment in the £2.1m, and frankly, this should have been identified before it was paid and sorted out then, then it should be claimed back.

However, the "overpayment" is simply SUFC claiming there is on, it has not been agreed with HMRC and as such the withholding of PAYE is reckless in the extreme as it opens another case of non-payment of tax, which will have interested added to it and probably an additional penalty.

I am quite astounded that RM can be so stupid.

 

[bazzashrimper]

As I see it, hopefully from a neutral standpoint.

Ron thinks he has overpaid by £200k and HMRC don't want to spend a morning looking at the evidence - should he continue paying and they will continue not looking at the evidence? It seems to me that RMs stance has forced the revenue to have a chat - and after all £200k is a lot of cash when there is a cash flow problem.

I think (although please correct me if I am wrong) but Notts County, Pompey + one other have similar complaints about overpayments at the moment. RM may well have a case here and this £200k can hopefully go towards paying some wages and buying some property around roots hall. If we have a case, RM is a fool not to make a claim???

It could be that RM is trying one on - a £200k short term loan is probably pretty helpful for him at the moment. The statement on the OS says RM will pay any monies found to be owed after the meeting, so if he is trying one on, wait to see if he pays the cash before passing judgement.

 

[Southampton Shrimper]

I think (although please correct me if I am wrong) but Notts County, Pompey + one other have similar complaints about overpayments at the moment.

You're certainly right about Pompey. As I posted on another thread, they are taking legal action against HMRC because they don't believe that they owe the £1.5 million that the HMRC is demanding from them!

The News

 

[Jam_Man]

It could be that RM is trying one on - a £200k short term loan is probably pretty helpful for him at the moment. The statement on the OS says RM will pay any monies found to be owed after the meeting, so if he is trying one on, wait to see if he pays the cash before passing judgement.

After latest shenanigans I doubt he would be trying anything on where he didnt feel he had a valid case.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

He doesn't have a legal to stand on.

If there was an overpayment in the £2.1m, and frankly, this should have been identified before it was paid and sorted out then, then it should be claimed back.

However, the "overpayment" is simply SUFC claiming there is on, it has not been agreed with HMRC and as such the withholding of PAYE is reckless in the extreme as it opens another case of non-payment of tax, which will have interested added to it and probably an additional penalty.

I am quite astounded that RM can be so stupid.

Agreed. I'm afraid this is another ruse to disguise the club's appalling cash-flow situation. If you or I think we've overpayed tax, we apply for a rebate - we don't withhold it from our PAYE! His behaviour is thoroughly reckless.

Matt

 

[Jam_Man]

He doesn't have a legal to stand on.

If there was an overpayment in the £2.1m, and frankly, this should have been identified before it was paid and sorted out then, then it should be claimed back.

However, the "overpayment" is simply SUFC claiming there is on, it has not been agreed with HMRC and as such the withholding of PAYE is reckless in the extreme as it opens another case of non-payment of tax, which will have interested added to it and probably an additional penalty.

I am quite astounded that RM can be so stupid.

But they admit that they were forced to find payment in a period of time that didnt allow them to identify it.

I however no nothing of tax issues but home his financial director and lawyers do. If he is so stupid why arent they telling him not to take a stand?

 

[fixitkid]

Agreed. I'm afraid this is another ruse to disguise the club's appalling cash-flow situation. If you or I think we've overpayed tax, we apply for a rebate - we don't withhold it from our PAYE! His behaviour is thoroughly reckless.

Matt

If we take everything on face value and believe everything in the blog today, it seems HRMC were not prepared to listen to any rebate request. As such this action has forced their hand to take Ron's people's point on board.

I hear exactly what you're saying and agree it's more than a tad bold of Ron to take such a stance against such an authority. But, lets see how this pans out before we hear shouts of "Ron out!"

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Agreed. I'm afraid this is another ruse to disguise the club's appalling cash-flow situation. If you or I think we've overpayed tax, we apply for a rebate - we don't withhold it from our PAYE! His behaviour is thoroughly reckless.

Matt

I'm not so sure it is reckless if it is calculated.

I also don't blame the HMRC for slapping down a winding-up petition to counter it. After 3 years or however long it was of arrears, it certainly got RM's attention last time.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I think withholding it from the PAYE was more of a move to get them to talk to us... The way they snuffed their noses at us when we asked for a hearing, albeit predictably considering our history of non-payment, required further action and by withholding the payments, we've certainly got their attention.

 

[haveaguiness]

"Irrespective of where the amount of £220,937.12 or indeed £445,937.12 has been allocated, it has been taken into account and HMRC has no intention of reallocating it."

Can someone in the financial know just clarify whether this is actually legal or not on HMRC's behalf. I would have thought if an amount had been overpaid to do with tax then any extra funds would HAVE to be relocated? Otherwise HMRC could just make everyone pay more tax, apologise that it was a mistake and then say, but it was taken into account so we are not giving it back to you!

Also if they themselves are unsure of where this amount has come from does this not imply that they have just put some extra money on to see if it is noticed or not?

On the other hand it could be that the amounts are correct, but because they did not want to listen and discuss the matter then keeping the a couple of months money back was the only way to get them to listen (risky if you ask me!)

Also does this mean we are once again under a transfer embargo because we have a winding up petition against us?

 

[GrumpyBlue]

Ron doesn`t seem to learn lessons - you do not mess with the HMRC even if you think they are wrong - they hold all the power

 

[Suffolk Blue]

I've had these problems with HMRC in the past with my company. I overpaid them and they allocated the money to my next year's tax bill "on account". The problem is that all companies pay their taxes as late as possible, whereas having the payment ahead of time prevents this.

I've got to say that Ron's business dealings with HMRC aren't that unusual, the speed with which they're going to court with football clubs is though, and appears to be far more aggresive than they act with other types of company.

RM and his companies may indeed be experiencing cash-flow problems, it looks like he has a lot of outgoings with few incomings at the moment, but I suspect he wouldn't be paying his tax bill on the day it became due even if he was knee deep in tenners.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If we gotta pay £200,000, we may aswell use some of the money liverpool gave us for our youngster Ngoo. Specially as he weren't even in our 1st team. .

Thought it was Everton?

 

[Smiffy]

Thought it was Everton?

Michael Ngoo joined Liverpool
Femi Orenuga joined Everton
Medi Abalimba joined Derby