Football - what do we love about it? (with a bit of Brown to Sunderland? thrown in)

[LBBlue]

The standard of player and football in league 1 and 2 is higher now than 30 years ago before the large influx of foreign players. Take all the foreign players out of the top two divisions and I suspect the players left would all move up a division. We've had stand out players going back but a lot we've managed to forget who wouldn't get a look in at league level now.

There has been a major shift in attitude of managers and coaches over the last 30 to 40 years. Now defence and a clean sheet is the be all and end all. This is thanks to the likes of Italian Coaches, Jose, Sam, Phil, Pulis, etc who have put the emphasis on fitness, athleticism, work rate and organisation at the expense of ball skills - creative players are closed down and taken out of the game very easily. Entertainment and excitement has suffered -games are a lot quicker.

30/40 years ago we didn't have 7 subs sitting on the bench every week and squads were a lot smaller. Nor were there as many Champions league games and internationals I suspect the level of player in each division has not been greatly affected by the influx of foreign players - we just have more of them

George Best, Jimmy Greaves, Frank Worthington, Alan Hudson , Rodney Marsh, Tony Currie, Charlie George, Dennis Law, Stan Bowles, Willie Morgan, Charlie Cooke etc -we wont see the likes of them again.


Mind you it will be interesting to see how the current crop of English youngsters fare in the next few years. Loftus-Cheek did OK last night - and Italy might not even make the world cup finals.

 

[Blue Yonder]

Ah.. money wasted.. on chancers, the talentless, over hyped wages and fringe con men... that's a different debate !

 

[AndyT]

There has been a major shift in attitude of managers and coaches over the last 30 to 40 years. Now defence and a clean sheet is the be all and end all. This is thanks to the likes of Italian Coaches, Jose, Sam, Phil, Pulis, etc who have put the emphasis on fitness, athleticism, work rate and organisation at the expense of ball skills - creative players are closed down and taken out of the game very easily. Entertainment and excitement has suffered -games are a lot quicker.

30/40 years ago we didn't have 7 subs sitting on the bench every week and squads were a lot smaller. Nor were there as many Champions league games and internationals I suspect the level of player in each division has not been greatly affected by the influx of foreign players - we just have more of them

George Best, Jimmy Greaves, Frank Worthington, Alan Hudson , Rodney Marsh, Tony Currie, Charlie George, Dennis Law, Stan Bowles, Willie Morgan, Charlie Cooke etc -we wont see the likes of them again.


Mind you it will be interesting to see how the current crop of English youngsters fare in the next few years. Loftus-Cheek did OK last night - and Italy might not even make the world cup finals.

Some really good points, there 'LBBLue'.

There's definitely been a culture shift, probably started around the 60's with the likes of Ramsey's 'wingless wonders'.

There are still some wonderful flair players in the modern game, but with the game saturated with stats and systems, having a maverick in the team is almost seen as a liability, sadly. Stan the Man was a great example of that. When he ghosted past four players like they weren't there and smashed it into the net, wasn't it just the greatest feeling of all. But, of course, he was lazy at times and that just won't do!

Fitness levels are certainly higher, thus compressing space on the pitch.

Everything just negates everything else and it becomes like a dreary chess match.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Some 'mavericks' were accused of not doing enough of the gritty stuff but they were unpredictable and that was entertaining. The modern game is predictable and teams set up to counter each other and it often becomes more a game of chess than football. I wish there were more mavericks in the game today. I remember Peter Barnes talking about how his wing skills were not appreciated by the coaches and they tried to train it out of him and that it was happening to kids early on. I guess coaches need to be able to draw nice formations with x's here and there and can't deal with an unknown factor.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Fitness levels are certainly higher, thus compressing space on the pitch.

Everything just negates everything else and it becomes like a dreary chess match.

Except when we play away at Rotherham for example and players pass with speed and pace and put the ball into our net with style and ease ................ :sad: :facepalm:

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Some 'mavericks' were accused of not doing enough of the gritty stuff but they were unpredictable and that was entertaining. The modern game is predictable and teams set up to counter each other and it often becomes more a game of chess than football. I wish there were more mavericks in the game today. I remember Peter Barnes talking about how his wing skills were not appreciated by the coaches and they tried to train it out of him and that it was happening to kids early on. I guess coaches need to be able to draw nice formations with x's here and there and can't deal with an unknown factor.

Sometimes I am not so sure that there is such a thing as a winger anymore - the players on the right and left of midfield are as much "guards" protecting the full backs as they are part of the attacking formation.

And in the good old days, did we have players like Demi (and Francis, Coker and Powell etcetera) over-lapping and getting into the box?

 

[RobM]

Sometimes I am not so sure that there is such a thing as a winger anymore - the players on the right and left of midfield are as much "guards" protecting the full backs as they are part of the attacking formation.

And in the good old days, did we have players like Demi (and Francis, Coker and Powell etcetera) over-lapping and getting into the box?

You never heard "A fierce tackle by George Best!"

 

[onceknownasrab]

Sometimes I am not so sure that there is such a thing as a winger anymore - the players on the right and left of midfield are as much "guards" protecting the full backs as they are part of the attacking formation.

And in the good old days, did we have players like Demi (and Francis, Coker and Powell etcetera) over-lapping and getting into the box?

Its true that wingers are an archaic and forgotten element of the past but the 'guards', as you say, still have forward duties but are very predictable. We often heard the shout, 'take him on', when encouraging a player with the ball to go past a defender. It happens now but rarely in comparison. As for overlapping full backs, unless my memory is fuddled, I can remember many examples in the past. They would not have been called wingbacks like today but certainly did their bit going forward. Our options today are limited to hoof ball or neat passes between a triangle of players. Many games cry out for someone to break from what is expected and to do a slalom run between players or execute a wonderful piece of individual skill. Alas, sadly, those moments are few and far between and that is down to the coaching.

 

[E for B and Billy Best]

Crikey! 26 pages!! All on the back of "It's my home town club and I would love to manage them.

 

[GrumpyBlue]

It's all about fitness and athleticism these days - not about players who can skilfully beat another player. When was the last time you saw a winger who could dribble. I'll add Ricky Otto, Colin Morris, John McKinven, Terry Johnson, and Martin Ling to your list. ( Even Scottie Houghton!)

When was the last time we had a winger who could cross :cricko:

 

[blues exile]

The standard of football in the lower leagues I would judge as generally of lower quality than in the 60s and 70s. Undoubtedly it is faster, players are much fitter but technically lacking even the basic skills in so many cases. It's a fruitless pursuit comparing eras, and even in the sixties ball players got taken out of the game pretty ruthlessly. I still remember Graham Taylor breaking John McKinven's leg as an extreme example. To narrow it down to SUFC, if it's supposed to be entertainment, nowadays it is sadly lacking in players who capture the imagination with their skill and flair. Functionality, efficiency and percentage football have taken the joy and unpredictability out of the game. I am an iFollow subscriber but I don't see any latter day Billy Best, Bill Garner, Collymore, Angell, Cadette or Derek Spence in the present setup nor anyone to match the defensive qualities of an Alan Moody or Peter Watson. Grim, grinding out results based football is even worse watching from the comfort of your own home away from any sort of buzz you get from being at the ground.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

When was the last time we had a winger who could cross :cricko:

Weston had one good cross in his time here

 

[AndyT]

Talking of mavericks, probably my favourite ever player was Eddie Gray.

Here's 12 minutes of pure class :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuPN27TeLLE

It includes, around 10:15, the greatest goal I think I've ever seen by anyone.

Here it is, in it's own right, as well. It's the second of these two goals :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=misIiftQQdQ

:thumbsup: :cool:

 

[E for B and Billy Best]

I knew what goal was coming before I clicked on the link. I seem to remember that goal used to crop up a lot on The Big Match along with the Roger Davies miss for Derby at Stamford Bridge, which still makes me laugh when I think of it.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Talking of mavericks, probably my favourite ever player was Eddie Gray.

Here's 12 minutes of pure class :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuPN27TeLLE

It includes, around 10:15, the greatest goal I think I've ever seen by anyone.

Here it is, in it's own right, as well. It's the second of these two goals :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=misIiftQQdQ

:thumbsup: :cool:

Yes. Fantabalistic goal. And presumably that video is now used to train defenders - don't dive in and "stay on your feet". Of course, with the new "light weight balls" it is so much easier for modern players to perform tricks. :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

 

[rigsby]

Yes. Fantabalistic goal. And presumably that video is now used as to train defenders - don't dive in and "stay on your feet". Of course, with the new "light weight balls" it is so much easier for modern players to perform tricks. :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

That chip for the first goal with the keeper hardly off his line was certainly aided because of a heavier ball. So guess its swings and roundabouts as the lighter balls are much easier to get to dip when hit with pace from closer range. A 20 yard free kick for example.

P.S The reason we will never see a goal like the second......The ref would stop the game for the injured Leeds player in the box.

 

[RobM]

... the Roger Davies miss for Derby at Stamford Bridge, which still makes me laugh when I think of it.

That was a classic!

 

[TTS]

This has turned into a brilliant thread about football and people's belief in the beautiful game ..... any chance the title of the thread can be changed now to just "Football - what do we love about it"

 

[BrettieAngell]

When was the last time we had a winger who could cross :cricko:

Ryan Hall?

 

[onceknownasrab]

Ryan Hall?

Kevan Hurst was none too shabby.