Does Jon Venables deserve execution?

[GBJ]

Which is exactly what this thread is. The death penalty thing has been done (no pun intended) to death.

Mate, I don't mean this in a nasty way, but if you feel like that, why did you feel the need to pop in and comment? I started this thread looking to create a discussion, based on a hypothetical scenario with a famous criminal. If that's too dull for you, maybe you should pop back to your thread about hobbies, pick one, and busy yourself with it.

 

[Lord Football]

Nah.

He was a kid when he murdered. I don't think in any sort of civilisations (bar ISIS, which I'd question whether "civilisation" is the correct word) advocates killing kids in the name of the Law. So the following is based on what has happened since he became an adult.

As an adult, he hasn't killed anyone. He has some rather disturbing habits, and clearly has some issues. He unquestionably deserves to be locked away. He does not deserve a place in society, and society is better without him.

But, we don't kill people in the name of the law in this country (well, not legally at any rate). But let's be absolutely blunt. If he hadn't carried out the Bulger crime, he'd probably get two lines in a local rag and would just be another nasty paedo. No one would be screaming for him to be executed and we wouldn't be discussing this.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Mate, I don't mean this in a nasty way, but if you feel like that, why did you feel the need to pop in and comment? I started this thread looking to create a discussion, based on a hypothetical scenario with a famous criminal. If that's too dull for you, maybe you should pop back to your thread about hobbies, pick one, and busy yourself with it.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll bung you on ignore so I don't have to see you bleating on like a stuck record. :thumbsup:

 

[GBJ]

But let's be absolutely blunt. If he hadn't carried out the Bulger crime, he'd probably get two lines in a local rag and would just be another nasty paedo. No one would be screaming for him to be executed and we wouldn't be discussing this.

But he did carry out the Bulger crime though, and it should always be taken into consideration. Why? Because he's still on licence for that very crime. It's not as if he's served his time, his punishment was for evermore. If he proved he'd changed his ways, he was free to try and regain some sense of normality in his life, just as Thompson did. However, Since his release in 2001, he has broken the law, aswell as the conditions of that licence on at least 5 occasions, 3 of which were crimes involving violence or young children.

Don't get me wrong, I know that the topic of executing him will never become a genuine reality, and I'm not try to force a revolution either, all I'm saying is that this specifc monster has had chance after chance, and simply doesn't deserve anymore

 

[GBJ]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll bung you on ignore so I don't have to see you bleating on like a stuck record. :thumbsup:

I reiterate my earlier point, this thread wasn't for bleating on, it was for discussion, in which I asked people to explain why I was wrong. So far that has been the general gist of it, and there's been some worthwhile contributions.

If you don't like the topic, that's fine, feel free not to comment. If you feel you need to put me on ignore, that's also fine. But why you think you can decide what topics should, or shouldn't be discussed, is anyone's guess.

Both of your contributions to this thread have been, well, nothing more than attention seeking narcissism

 

[Napster]

Nice idea but you won't get much support for execution or corporal punishment.

The whole justice system is a failure. Just today it has been announced that John Worboys , the black cab rapist will be released.

Theodore Johnson has just been sentenced to life for killing his partner. The thing is he has done it twice before and already been sentenced both times.

The really bizarre thing is those that scream for women's rights the loudest are the ones who are happy to release the very people who are the biggest danger to women.

One thing I have learnt in life is that there are 2 justice systems operating, one for us and one for the elite. Venables, Worboys etc are released because they will never ruin any one from the establishments life, just more of the plebs.

Ever heard of Ian Ball......most people haven't. He has been in prison since 1974 and is currently in Broadmoor.......
Did he kill anyone ? no.....
Rape? no

No he made the mistake of trying to kidnap Princess Anne 44 years ago........Even if you google him he is barely mentioned by name just headlines like 'Crazed Gunman'.......Now there is a clear deterrent to any would be criminal, by all means murder rape and rob from your own because we make a living playing out court room dramas which are the elites version of reality TV.......But be warned if you cross that line, you will definitely get justice.

he did shoot a few people though.

 

[McNasty]

But he did carry out the Bulger crime though, and it should always be taken into consideration. Why? Because he's still on licence for that very crime. It's not as if he's served his time, his punishment was for evermore. If he proved he'd changed his ways, he was free to try and regain some sense of normality in his life, just as Thompson did. However, Since his release in 2001, he has broken the law, aswell as the conditions of that licence on at least 5 occasions, 3 of which were crimes involving violence or young children.

Don't get me wrong, I know that the topic of executing him will never become a genuine reality, and I'm not try to force a revolution either, all I'm saying is that this specifc monster has had chance after chance, and simply doesn't deserve anymore

It is a shame , on the night he was conceived, his father didn't have one off the wrist instead.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Nice idea but you won't get much support for execution or corporal punishment.

The whole justice system is a failure. Just today it has been announced that John Worboys , the black cab rapist will be released.

Theodore Johnson has just been sentenced to life for killing his partner. The thing is he has done it twice before and already been sentenced both times.

The really bizarre thing is those that scream for women's rights the loudest are the ones who are happy to release the very people who are the biggest danger to women.

One thing I have learnt in life is that there are 2 justice systems operating, one for us and one for the elite. Venables, Worboys etc are released because they will never ruin any one from the establishments life, just more of the plebs.

Ever heard of Ian Ball......most people haven't. He has been in prison since 1974 and is currently in Broadmoor.......
Did he kill anyone ? no.....
Rape? no

No he made the mistake of trying to kidnap Princess Anne 44 years ago........Even if you google him he is barely mentioned by name just headlines like 'Crazed Gunman'.......Now there is a clear deterrent to any would be criminal, by all means murder rape and rob from your own because we make a living playing out court room dramas which are the elites version of reality TV.......But be warned if you cross that line, you will definitely get justice.

I think thats the crux of the matter. At the moment, when the justice system fails an innocent person, while they are still alive, there's always a chance an appeal will uncover evidence to release the innocent party. Having the death sentence would nullify this

If the minority report became a reality then maybe but we all know that's just a fantasy

 

[Lord Football]

But he did carry out the Bulger crime though, and it should always be taken into consideration. Why? Because he's still on licence for that very crime. It's not as if he's served his time, his punishment was for evermore. If he proved he'd changed his ways, he was free to try and regain some sense of normality in his life, just as Thompson did. However, Since his release in 2001, he has broken the law, aswell as the conditions of that licence on at least 5 occasions, 3 of which were crimes involving violence or young children.

Don't get me wrong, I know that the topic of executing him will never become a genuine reality, and I'm not try to force a revolution either, all I'm saying is that this specifc monster has had chance after chance, and simply doesn't deserve anymore

Yes, I know. You've made a third of the posts on this thread.

 

[rigsby]

he did shoot a few people though.

True he did but none died. Yet Harry Roberts who shot and killed 3 policeman has been released.

My point was that so called justice is a lottery depending on your original sentence and how skilled you are at fooling a parole board. Something a predatory skilled liar like Worboys seemed to have no trouble doing

Does anyone really think a man with over 100 victims is safe to be on the streets. Just the thought of him staring at your wife or daughter should make a man feel sick. These sort of people should be locked up for life in solitary. They don't need group discussion classes to come to terms with their offending.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

True he did but none died. Yet Harry Roberts who shot and killed 3 policeman has been released.

My point was that so called justice is a lottery depending on your original sentence and how skilled you are at fooling a parole board. Something a predatory skilled liar like Worboys seemed to have no trouble doing

Does anyone really think a man with over 100 victims is safe to be on the streets. Just the thought of him staring at your wife or daughter should make a man feel sick. These sort of people should be locked up for life in solitary. They don't need group discussion classes to come to terms with their offending.

He was, in fact, convicted of raping (and drugging) about a dozen victims.While I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion,the fact of the matter is, that he served the minimum 8 year sentence recommended for the crimes he was actually convicted of.He's now been released under licence for the next two years.

You're right to draw attention to the fact that the law should be changed to allow parole boards to make the public aware of the reasons for their decisons.

 

[GBJ]

He was, in fact, convicted of raping (and drugging) about a dozen victims.While I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion,the fact of the matter is, that he served the minimum 8 year sentence recommended for the crimes he was actually convicted of.He's now been released under licence for the next two years.

Only time will tell whether Worboys has been rehabilitated, although I'm sceptical to say the least. His predatory actions were premeditated & cold blooded. You don't just abandon those traits.

Secondly, 8 years was a dispicably low sentence in the first place. Prison isn't just about rehabilitation, it's about punishment aswell. 8 years for him are nothing compared to the hundreds of lives he's ruined forever.

You're right to draw attention to the fact that the law should be changed to allow parole boards to make the public aware of the reasons for their decisons.

This is totally spot on.

 

[londonblue]

Which is exactly what this thread is. The death penalty thing has been done (no pun intended) to death.

You know I've mentioned the pilot's forum I sometimes frequent? Well they actually re-title threads like this by adding the word "hamsterwheel".

It feels like that sometimes.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Only time will tell whether Worboys has been rehabilitated, although I'm sceptical to say the least. His predatory actions were premeditated & cold blooded. You don't just abandon those traits.

Secondly, 8 years was a dispicably low sentence in the first place. Prison isn't just about rehabilitation, it's about punishment aswell. 8 years for him are nothing compared to the hundreds of lives he's ruined forever.



This is totally spot on.

As for your first point,only time will tell.After all he ¡s 60 now.

As for your second,I tend to agree.Though the sentence was based on being " convicted in 2009 of 19 charges of drugging and sexually assaulting 12 passengers and one charge of rape" and not the hundred or so crimes he was actually suspected of. FWIW,I don't think Worboys has paid his debt to society at all.Nor, however, do I think that visiting a PO,three times a week on licence for 2 years is some kind of soft option,either.

 

[GBJ]

As for your first point,only time will tell.After all he ¡s 60 now.

As for your second,I tend to agree.Though the sentence was based on being " convicted in 2009 of 19 charges of drugging and sexually assaulting 12 passengers and one charge of rape" and not the hundred or so crimes he was actually suspected of. FWIW,I don't think Worboys has paid his debt to society at all.Nor, however, do I think that visiting a PO,three times a week on licence for 2 years is some kind of soft option,either.

I think the correlation between Worboys & Venables, is that justice has been light on both counts. If I'm not mistaken, The total time spent behind bars, for their combined charges, adds up to 18 years, which simply doesn't reflect the shocking nature of their crimes.

The fact is, both of these men should forever be kept under close & constant watch at the very least, as they will always pose a serious threat to the general public. Unfortunately that won't happen.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll bung you on ignore so I don't have to see you bleating on like a stuck record. :thumbsup:

Oh grow up for ****s sake.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

The fact is, both of these men should forever be kept under close & constant watch at the very least, as they will always pose a serious threat to the general public. Unfortunately that won't happen.

Agree with this totally but I do not want to live in a society that murders it's citizens.

P.S. It's CAPITAL punishment, corporal punishment is what you used to get at school.

 

[Napster]

Agree with this totally but I do not want to live in a society that murders it's citizens.

.

unless they misuse apostrophes!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think the correlation between Worboys & Venables, is that justice has been light on both counts. If I'm not mistaken, The total time spent behind bars, for their combined charges, adds up to 18 years, which simply doesn't reflect the shocking nature of their crimes.

The fact is, both of these men should forever be kept under close & constant watch at the very least, as they will always pose a serious threat to the general public. Unfortunately that won't happen.

Venables was, of course, just a ten year old child when he committed his first unspeakable crime.Worboys wasn't.

 

[ozzie]

I dont think so about Venables,but what about that scum bloke who just killed his 3rd wife-partner..??
will always remember my Grandfather telling me in the 60s,some people should be given a tablet,to finish it all..
But also remember him telling me in Elm rd Leigh...if i ever caught that long haired hippie...Mick Jagger..he would drag him into the bathroom and cut all his long hair off...Must be now turning in his grave....Arise SIR MICK