Does Jon Venables deserve execution?

[Firestorm]

I misread it. 10 years is for possession with intent to supply. You're correct 5 years is the max term for possession.

However, possession of a "paedophile manual", carries a maximum sentence of 3-years, on its own.

I have noticed a preference for concurrent as opposed to consecutive sentences in the UK , unlike the States who tend to prefer consecutive.

 

[GBJ]

I have noticed a preference for concurrent as opposed to consecutive sentences in the UK , unlike the States who tend to prefer consecutive.

It's very strange. It's seemingly buy one crime, get another one free.

Speaking of the mutineers across the pond, I wonder how they'd have handled this specific individual. There is plenty to mock the US for, (although I'm not saying you are), but I'm quite confident they'd have handled this abomination much better than us.

It's a shame we cannot give Venables a nice new rope necklace.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

Speaking of the mutineers across the pond, I wonder how they'd have handled this specific individual. There is plenty to mock the US for, (although I'm not saying you are), but I'm quite confident they'd have handled this abomination much better than us.

You cannot compare the two systems at all. The US justice system varies wildly from state to state.

 

[GBJ]

You cannot compare the two systems at all. The US justice system varies wildly from state to state.

Of course you can compare them. You're quite right, different States have different policies & protocols. But that doesn't change the fact that there's not a State in the US, who would have handled Jon Venables worse than the UK have.

Case in point; Ronald Sanford. At 13-years-old, whilst robbing two old ladies, in their own home, he murdered them. He was sentenced to 170 years in prison. Proper adult prison, not a youth hostel prison.

Now, some people argue that that sentence was too harsh for a young boy who was 15-year-old at the time of sentencing. I say, it's a clear message to would-be criminals that you'll reap what you sow, and you will suffer for a very, very long time.

 

[GBJ]

Enforced castration I suggest, doubt he'll ever change his evil ways. Anyone watch any of the (Bulger) programme on tv the other night? Found it distressing even after all these years.

Finally caught up with that. An odd programme to say the least. From the outset, it seemed apparent that the makers of the show were trying to put a spin on it, that made Venables & Thompson look hard-done-by.

Several times, the media were accused of fueling the fire of hatred towards the boys, which is simply disingenuous. The hatred of the boys was borne out of their dispicable actions. The media merely reflected that hate.

Thompson's lawyer came across as a wet lettuce, & almost sympathetic of his client. Strange man, and one I wouldn't want to associate with.


******************


Saw that Venables new custodial stint will be at the discretion of the parole board. It'll be interesting to see if this time they make Better choices, or simply repeat the same mistakes that previous PB's have made. I wonder if those previous parole boards, who had faith & trust in Venables' rehabilitation, would have allowed him to babysit their kids

 

[Snowy]

Surely chemical castration is the way ahead. Give them the option of this when they are due for parole.
Saying that Warboys should rot in jail for what he has done.

 

[Napster]

Surely chemical castration is the way ahead. Give them the option of this when they are due for parole.
Saying that Warboys should rot in jail for what he has done.

Snowy!?!?!?!?!

We were only talking about you on Saturday! :raspberry:

 

[hockleyeast1964]

After watching the ITV documentary tonight I'm of the opinion that he shouldn't be executed. He should be released with his true identity and announced in all the papers. Why waste taxpayers money giving this scum board and lodgings.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

After watching the ITV documentary tonight I'm of the opinion that he shouldn't be executed. He should be released with his true identity and announced in all the papers. Why waste taxpayers money giving this scum board and lodgings.

If you encourage vigilantism you will very soon have a lawless society.
Death is an easy way out.
He is clearly not safe to be out among the public so should be locked away until the day he dies - old and bored. That costs money - everything costs money - we are the 6th richest nation in the world - we can afford to lock up dangerous people.

 

[GBJ]

If you encourage vigilantism you will very soon have a lawless society.
Death is an easy way out.
He is clearly not safe to be out among the public so should be locked away until the day he dies - old and bored. That costs money - everything costs money - we are the 6th richest nation in the world - we can afford to lock up dangerous people.

We can afford to, yet we choose not to.

Rigsby could be right with his assessment of a shady reason for this. More specifically, the various people benefiting from the whole saga.

I'm not sure, but it's baffling to me that a person of this genuine danger, hasn't been caged for eternity, when even the most humanitarian of people can see that this thing is a constant danger to society.

I understand with this latest sentencing, the judge could only act within certain guidelines. Which if you think about it, is farcical at best, and criminally negligent at worst.

Logically, how difficult would it be to introduce new legislation, which stated something along these lines; Any violent, murderous criminal, who cannot be rehabilitated, and will forever pose a genuine & increasing risk to public safety, should be remanded for the rest of their lives.

You wouldn't expect this heavy sentence to be handed out regularly, but it makes perfect sense to at least have it available for judges who have to face the rare cases, such as Venables.

I mean, the case reports actually state, that this degenerate has displayed a genuine threat to children, and could have been on the verge of committing his next heinous & vile crime. Yet we as an advanced civilisation, cannot just throw him in a cell forever, becuase there's not a piece of text allowing it?

Imagine the support that Corbyn, or the next Tory leader would garner, just from that one act.

What an incredulous & sorry state of affairs.

 

[mattitouk]

I agree.

Yes we can afford it, yes its a waste of a prison cell for 40 odd years to try and make a bad person change their ways.

But in extreme cases (and I mean in extreme cases) where killers have been proved to be of sane mind by a professional, and had willingly admitted to say killing someone for fun, with no sense of regret, or intention of trying to be rehabilitated. I see no reason why euthanasia shouldn't be given to them as apose to releasing them back into the public community again, to cause danger to others.

What would it solve? Another rape or murder by the nutter or another murder investigation by the police and court costs to ensure a conviction or by the mother or father of someone that wanted revenge on a loved one that was murdered by them.

Bring back the death penalty in my opinion, but only to those that are of sane mind and willing to accept their fate for their actions, after 100% evidence is provided.

If in doubt, than I guess bang them up for life, then us taxpayers have to fork out the cost for keeping our communities safe.

The British prison system is a joke, life doesn't mean anything these days, you get sent down for 30 years, spend half the time watching TV, playing pool, smoking weed, if you play your cards right, you attend a few wood working classes to get a trade, attend a few lectures, and pretend your a changed person. Bang!.. Your out in 12 odd years, Imagine getting sentenced to life at 20 and getting out at 35. It's a laughing stock of a system.

The only people that truly get life, are the loved ones of the victims, that have to continue onwards without them. Those poor souls to have a life sentence, & have to deal with the actions of some random **** until their final breath of their own life, even be it if they live until 100 years old.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

We are told prison is just sitting around watching TV and playing pool, and yet when Nile was in prison we were told he was in a cell for 23 hours a day. Which is it?

 

[OldBlueLady]

I agree.

Yes we can afford it, yes its a waste of a prison cell for 40 odd years to try and make a bad person change their ways.

But in extreme cases (and I mean in extreme cases) where killers have been proved to be of sane mind by a professional, and had willingly admitted to say killing someone for fun, with no sense of regret, or intention of trying to be rehabilitated. I see no reason why euthanasia shouldn't be given to them as apose to releasing them back into the public community again, to cause danger to others.

What would it solve? Another rape or murder by the nutter or another murder investigation by the police and court costs to ensure a conviction or by the mother or father of someone that wanted revenge on a loved one that was murdered by them.

Bring back the death penalty in my opinion, but only to those that are of sane mind and willing to accept their fate for their actions, after 100% evidence is provided.

If in doubt, than I guess bang them up for life, then us taxpayers have to fork out the cost for keeping our communities safe.

The British prison system is a joke, life doesn't mean anything these days, you get sent down for 30 years, spend half the time watching TV, playing pool, smoking weed, if you play your cards right, you attend a few wood working classes to get a trade, attend a few lectures, and pretend your a changed person. Bang!.. Your out in 12 odd years, Imagine getting sentenced to life at 20 and getting out at 35. It's a laughing stock of a system.

The only people that truly get life, are the loved ones of the victims, that have to continue onwards without them. Those poor souls to have a life sentence, & have to deal with the actions of some random **** until their final breath of their own life, even be it if they live until 100 years old.

Can I just say, there's no such word as "apose" - it's "opposed"! Also, on your point, where would that have left Ian Brady? Spent much of his incarceration in Broadmoor but should have swung, in my opinion.

We are told prison is just sitting around watching TV and playing pool, and yet when Nile was in prison we were told he was in a cell for 23 hours a day. Which is it?

Simple answer there - it depends on the prison, and, even, the wing they are on. Nile was originally on a wing with a fairly open association for much of the day, however, silly boy that he was, he ended up on a normal wing, where he probably was locked up for a very large part of the day.

Prisoners are entitled to a certain amount of "association" a day. Good behaviour and acceptance of roles within the prison, such as being a trusty of some kind, means you're out of your cell for longer. Most cells do have TVs though so they can be watching TV for much of their time.

 

[Ricky Otto]

We can afford to, yet we choose not to.

Rigsby could be right with his assessment of a shady reason for this. More specifically, the various people benefiting from the whole saga.

I'm not sure, but it's baffling to me that a person of this genuine danger, hasn't been caged for eternity, when even the most humanitarian of people can see that this thing is a constant danger to society.

I understand with this latest sentencing, the judge could only act within certain guidelines. Which if you think about it, is farcical at best, and criminally negligent at worst.

Logically, how difficult would it be to introduce new legislation, which stated something along these lines; Any violent, murderous criminal, who cannot be rehabilitated, and will forever pose a genuine & increasing risk to public safety, should be remanded for the rest of their lives.

You wouldn't expect this heavy sentence to be handed out regularly, but it makes perfect sense to at least have it available for judges who have to face the rare cases, such as Venables.

I mean, the case reports actually state, that this degenerate has displayed a genuine threat to children, and could have been on the verge of committing his next heinous & vile crime. Yet we as an advanced civilisation, cannot just throw him in a cell forever, becuase there's not a piece of text allowing it?

Imagine the support that Corbyn, or the next Tory leader would garner, just from that one act.

What an incredulous & sorry state of affairs.

it's feasible and there are a fair number of people with views on rehabilitation that allow them to do this. I'm not going to say the "left" because I think far too many views are classified as left and right when many people don't fit into that convenient box. I'd class myself as generally left leaning but in this instance I am 100% behind a death penalty or life means life, which may be considered a right wing view. Anyway whilst there are people who argue for evil people to have human rights whilst the human rights of potential future victims are ignored there are a number of people who will profit from the system.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

it's feasible and there are a fair number of people with views on rehabilitation that allow them to do this. I'm not going to say the "left" because I think far too many views are classified as left and right when many people don't fit into that convenient box. I'd class myself as generally left leaning but in this instance I am 100% behind a death penalty or life means life, which may be considered a right wing view. Anyway whilst there are people who argue for evil people to have human rights whilst the human rights of potential future victims are ignored there are a number of people who will profit from the system.

I'm left and 100% behind life means life.

 

[Napster]

I'm left and 100% behind life means life.

I'm right and not 100% behind life means life.

I should qualify this but I'm busy and stuff

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Surely chemical castration is the way ahead. Give them the option of this when they are due for parole.
Saying that Warboys should rot in jail for what he has done.

That of course was tried on Alan Turing.Worked well didn't it? Still I imagine the technique has been refined a tad since his day.:whistling:

 

[londonblue]

That of course was tried on Alan Touring.Worked well didn't it? Still I imagine the technique has been refined a tad since his day.:whistling:

Why, where was Alan Turing going?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Why, where was Alan Turing going?

You can't ask that - what goes on tour stays on tour.

 

[rigsby]

Finally caught up with that. An odd programme to say the least. From the outset, it seemed apparent that the makers of the show were trying to put a spin on it, that made Venables & Thompson look hard-done-by.

Several times, the media were accused of fueling the fire of hatred towards the boys, which is simply disingenuous. The hatred of the boys was borne out of their dispicable actions. The media merely reflected that hate.

Thompson's lawyer came across as a wet lettuce, & almost sympathetic of his client. Strange man, and one I wouldn't want to associate with.


******************


Saw that Venables new custodial stint will be at the discretion of the parole board. It'll be interesting to see if this time they make Better choices, or simply repeat the same mistakes that previous PB's have made. I wonder if those previous parole boards, who had faith & trust in Venables' rehabilitation, would have allowed him to babysit their kids

Of course they wouldn't. Unfortunately for the rest of society these people end living in the poorer areas and that's where they commit their crime.

There appears to be no penalty for failure the higher up the social pyramid people are. Just look at the MP's or Lords committing fraud etc. One convicted murderer went out and murdered someone again on day release from prison. After a review we had that classic one statement fits all....'Lessons have been learnt'.

If someone fits a gas fire incorrectly they can be sent to prison for manslaughter if anyone dies. As a Landlord if I employ someone who fits any gas or electrical equipment who is not qualified then I can be also sentenced for the same offence. I agree that's how it should be but it seems some so called professions are exempt.