Nottingham Ice Hockey player dies during match

cerbera45 · Oct 29, 2023

Only 29 years old, shockingly sad

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/ice-hockey/67253892

Holy Joe · Oct 29, 2023

Jeez - just seen the video, horrendous. RIP.

Ricey · Oct 29, 2023

They’re saying it’s a freak accident, but from the footage that’s a very high skate and a horrendous challenge!

Awful footage and not only do I feel for the deceased and his family, but all those people who witnessed that. No doubt kids will have been in attendance.

I sad day but also one of the dangers with a sport like that.

RIP Adam Johnson

cerbera45 · Oct 30, 2023

Holy Joe said:
Jeez - just seen the video, horrendous. RIP.

I don't think I want to :-(

Smiffy · Oct 30, 2023

Ricey said:
They’re saying it’s a freak accident, but from the footage that’s a very high skate and a horrendous challenge!

Awful footage and not only do I feel for the deceased and his family, but all those people who witnessed that. No doubt kids will have been in attendance.

I sad day but also one of the dangers with a sport like that.

RIP Adam Johnson

Just seen the video. I won't call it deliberate, but jeez I am struggling to see why his skate was that high. Must of hit the poor guy straight in the jugular. Absolutely tragic. RIP.

rigsby · Oct 30, 2023

Smiffy said:
Just seen the video. I won't call it deliberate, but jeez I am struggling to see why his skate was that high. Must of hit the poor guy straight in the jugular. Absolutely tragic. RIP.

Obviously got the wrong Adam Johnson.

BoyWonder2 · Oct 30, 2023

Ricey said:
They’re saying it’s a freak accident, but from the footage that’s a very high skate and a horrendous challenge!

Awful footage and not only do I feel for the deceased and his family, but all those people who witnessed that. No doubt kids will have been in attendance.

I sad day but also one of the dangers with a sport like that.

RIP Adam Johnson

There is literally no need for his skate to be that high.

Potentially, I can see him facing criminal charges.

No doubt he didn’t intend to kill him, but he has meant to “do” him.

hlane17 · Oct 30, 2023

Holy Joe said:
Jeez - just seen the video, horrendous. RIP.

Stumbled across it on Twitter wondering why Adam Johnson was trending thinking it was the ex-footballer. Won't unsee that.

Definitely reinforces my aversion to anything that involves skating on ice.

I saw the aftermath of a school friend's hand after he was run over by another skater following a fall. That put me off for life.

hlane17 · Oct 30, 2023

Looks intentional to me, the player responsible for the high skate also has a history of violent play on the ice apparently.

Definitely could face charges on the basis of the footage.

Gremlin · Oct 30, 2023

I've seen the video but wish I hadn't.

I don't watch a lot of ice hockey so could someone who does let me know whether it's normal for a skate to reach neck height during play?

Ricey · Oct 30, 2023

Gremlin said:
I've seen the video but wish I hadn't.

I don't watch a lot of ice hockey so could someone who does let me know whether it's normal for a skate to reach neck height during play?

It’s not normal at all!

hlane17 · Oct 30, 2023

Gremlin said:
I've seen the video but wish I hadn't.

I don't watch a lot of ice hockey so could someone who does let me know whether it's normal for a skate to reach neck height during play?

Only ever happened once before I believe, or at least in the pro game anyway.

WhiteNoise · Oct 31, 2023

hlane17 said:
Only ever happened once before I believe, or at least in the pro game anyway.

there have been multiple neck cuts, but this one is unusual given the skate was so high.

It definitely looks like a bad foul, but it's a slippery slope (no pun intended) if we start to introduce criminal charges for serious sporting fouls. It'd definitely be extremely unusual. I don't know if it was premeditated

Gremlin · Oct 31, 2023

WhiteNoise said:
there have been multiple neck cuts, but this one is unusual given the skate was so high.

It definitely looks like a bad foul, but it's a slippery slope (no pun intended) if we start to introduce criminal charges for serious sporting fouls. It'd definitely be extremely unusual. I don't know if it was premeditated

There can be a fine line between a sporting foul and an assault. Ask Duncan Ferguson.

Actually, don't.

rigsby · Oct 31, 2023

WhiteNoise said:
there have been multiple neck cuts, but this one is unusual given the skate was so high.

It definitely looks like a bad foul, but it's a slippery slope (no pun intended) if we start to introduce criminal charges for serious sporting fouls. It'd definitely be extremely unusual. I don't know if it was premeditated

People have been taken to court over tackles at Sunday level football. Happened after game at Stambridge a for one that the ref didn't even issue yellow. The case was dropped but cost the lad a fair few quid to defend it.

GBJ · Oct 31, 2023

As someone who watches hockey, it’s very rare for something like this to happen. Players get slashed from time to time, sure, but that’s mainly from a high stick, not a skate.

Petgrave’s movement in this scenario is very strange, and to label it as “high”, is an understatement. I’m not sure how tall Johnson was, but considering he’s on skates aswell, his neck must have been at a height of at least 5-6 foot at the time of impact. Why would anyone’s skate need to be that high?

At first glance of the video, (which isn’t an easy watch) I thought Petgrave had been knocked off balance and the momentum had carried his leg up high, but having watched it again, it doesn’t look that way at all. In actual fact, it kinda looks as those he has two kicks at Johnson. The footage isn’t the best quality though, so it’s far from conclusive.

Gut feeling, It looks as though Petgrave has “done” him, which is part and parcel of ice hockey. That’s where this gets complicated and proving an intent to kill will be nigh on impossible. Smashing into an opponent with a big hit is actively encouraged In the sport. Taking opponents out in violent fashion is just as much a tactic as a high press is in football.

This incident has obviously transversed that mantra, and it’s certainly not a normal hit/collision.

Would be interested to hear what you think @Tribal Chief

Tribal Chief · Oct 31, 2023

GBJ said:
As someone who watches hockey, it’s very rare for something like this to happen. Players get slashed from time to time, sure, but that’s mainly from a high stick, not a skate.

Petgrave’s movement in this scenario is very strange, and to label it as “high”, is an understatement. I’m not sure how tall Johnson was, but considering he’s on skates aswell, his neck must have been at a height of at least 5-6 foot at the time of impact. Why would anyone’s skate need to be that high?

At first glance of the video, (which isn’t an easy watch) I thought Petgrave had been knocked off balance and the momentum had carried his leg up high, but having watched it again, it doesn’t look that way at all. In actual fact, it kinda looks as those he has two kicks at Johnson. The footage isn’t the best quality though, so it’s far from conclusive.

Gut feeling, It looks as though Petgrave has “done” him, which is part and parcel of ice hockey. That’s where this gets complicated and proving an intent to kill will be nigh on impossible. Smashing into an opponent with a big hit is actively encouraged In the sport. Taking opponents out in violent fashion is just as much a tactic as a high press is in football.

This incident has obviously transversed that mantra, and it’s certainly not a normal hit/collision.

Would be interested to hear what you think @Tribal Chief

I've watched a lot of hockey at various levels and never seen anything like this. Richard Zednik had his throat slashed by a skate but he was lying on his back, and he thankfully recovered. Johnson was a star at this level having played in the NHL and would be a target for goonery but this is just something else. I don't see intent to kill but I do see intent to maim, and I wouldn't want to see Petgrave lacing them up again.

crangoner · Oct 31, 2023

The only criminal prosecution that could arise from this would be murder, if the prosecution could prove Johnson's throat was deliberately slashed with the necessary intent.

The current case law regarding serious injuries in sport stemmed from an amateur football incident where someone appealed successfully against a conviction of GBH after they put in a "crushing tackle, which was late, unnecessary, reckless and high up the legs".
(https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2004/3246.html)

rigsby · Oct 31, 2023

crangoner said:
The only criminal prosecution that could arise from this would be murder, if the prosecution could prove Johnson's throat was deliberately slashed with the necessary intent.

The current case law regarding serious injuries in sport stemmed from an amateur football incident where someone appealed successfully against a conviction of GBH after they put in a "crushing tackle, which was late, unnecessary, reckless and high up the legs".
(https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2004/3246.html)

Looks like manslaughter to me. Thats what the police should be looking into.

hlane17 · Oct 31, 2023

crangoner said:
The only criminal prosecution that could arise from this would be murder, if the prosecution could prove Johnson's throat was deliberately slashed with the necessary intent.

The current case law regarding serious injuries in sport stemmed from an amateur football incident where someone appealed successfully against a conviction of GBH after they put in a "crushing tackle, which was late, unnecessary, reckless and high up the legs".
(https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2004/3246.html)

Involuntary manslaughter could be in play here. https://www.draycottbrowne.co.uk/serious-crime/manslaughter-murder/involuntary-manslaughter