Brexit negotiations thread

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Agreed. Although, as I’ve stated many times before, if people were allowed to mention the word “immigrant” 10 years ago, without being instantly labelled as a racist, then we’d probably never have got to this stage in any case.

Irony eh?

Immigrant / immigration have never been words that were frowned upon.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Is this how we take back control - by asking foreign countries to override our own MP's? Fairly sure that breaks all sorts of conventions and probably laws.

Daniel Kawczynski: Tory MP asks Poland to block Article 50 extension – and force no-deal Brexit

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/daniel-kawczynski-poland-no-deal-brexit-article-50-block-extension/

 

[blues exile]

Diane Abbott in 2012: “White people love playing divide and rule”.

Is that not racist to you?

Diane Abbott in 1996: “Blonde-haired, blue-eyed Finnish girls are unsuitable nurses, because they’ve never met a black person before”.

Is that not racist to you?

Diane Abbott 1984 speaking on the Unionist population of NI: “Enclave of white supremacist ideology comparable with white settlers in Zimbabwe”.

Is that not racist to you?

No.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

If you dig out comments from 30+ years ago that are not very extreme then you are putting the spotlight on yourself.

I'm no liberal. There are various options, applauding someone using falsehoods in debates with her is not one of them.

Nigel Farage has said many things worse than that but currently he is an irrelevance with no power so I don't think digging dirt on him is the best use of anyone's time right now.

Caveat: I can't stand Farage any more than I can Sturgeon - they are both those dangerous types who are quite folksy and 'down to earth' but who have a hatred of someone just underneath their sheep's clothing...

Right, now that's out of the way can I just register a little protest at the notion that Diane Abbott's past comments are in some way minor or not very extreme. They are not minor and they are extreme, in my opinion. Racism isn't worse because it is directed at one race rather than another. Those comments would be abominable to all of us if you swap out white for black - and rightly so. Yes, it was a long time ago but if she started saying that crap 30 years ago and was still saying it 7 years ago what makes you so confident these are not her views now? Racist white politicians (of any party) would be abhorrent and unacceptable - BoJo included - and Diane Abbott should be held to the same standards. The woman is a menace both because of her views and also for her incomptence. That last part isnt racist. She isn't incompetent because she's black - she is incompetent because she is a prat and a loon.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Your on the money there. Democracy is being hi-jacked by politicians who don't wont to lose their tax payer funded cash club in Brussels.

At the top we have the criminal corrupt and unelected EU elite encouraging them. At the bottom we have the screaming left who know they cant win so are now threating to take away their bat and ball with the attitude of if we have to have Brexit lets make it one that no one wants......That will teach them

As for damage and infringing on peoples liberty. The rules go out the window when dictators overrule democracy...We have no obligation to conform in that situation.....The French have always known this and you should embrace your adopted countries culture.

You're one of the reasons I've had a rest from this thread and here we go again. blblablablablablablablablablablablabla...................... can you not change the record? and it was completely unprovoked. Two questions (I really shouldn't be drawn) Have you ever lived in a dictatorship? and are you accusing the present French government of being a dictatorship? If the answer to both those questions is no.....................then, politely, shut the crap up! I try never to be rude to people but the rubbish you ocassionally post hardly merits politeness

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

No.

So three statements which attribute perspectives/abilities to people based purely on what race they happen to be are not racist? Bang goes any limited credibility you ever had as a commentator on political matters.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Here you go. It does appear that you will definitely need permission to demonstrate, but until the new legislation is drafted we wont know whether permission is given through an actual physical permit:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788751

Yes, thanks for that. I had actually heard that there were moves afoot to harden up the law. I don't know how long it will take to be brought into, for me (and I'd imagine, other small business people), it can't come soon enough. You will have no doubt heard that there was another 'phase' of their action last week. This brought out 10,000 in Toulouse last Saturday and at the important period of the 'sales' I dread to think of the effect it is having on small shopkeepers in the city.

 

[GBJ]

If you dig out comments from 30+ years ago that are not very extreme then you are putting the spotlight on yourself.

Stop trying to misrepresent the facts. Her comment about white people was in 2012, a mere 7 years ago, not 30+.

Her comment on white nurses was 22 years ago & the IRA stuff was 35 years ago. The significance of that is, it’s clear her racist views towards white people haven’t changed for 30+ years.

I’m no liberal. There are various options, applauding someone using falsehoods in debates with her is not one of them.

That’s not an answer to my question. Please stop trying to avoid it. What is an appropriate reaction to her racist comments?

I’d have thought that condemnation would be a start. Would you care to publicly condemn them, here and now?

Nigel Farage has said many things worse than that but currently he is an irrelevance with no power so I don't think digging dirt on him is the best use of anyone's time right now.

Agree Farage is irrelevant right now, but that’s not the point I was making, as you well know. I’m just highlighting the hypocrisy that you’d be oh so quick to condemn Farage if he’d made those kind of comments.

However, you can’t wriggle away from the fact that Dianne Abbott most definitely is relevant right now, as there’s a chance that she could become Home Secretary, in the very near future.

So, as a Labour supporter, do you feel comfortable with this version of the Labour Party having a Home Secretary who’s known & proven to have a history of racist outbursts?

Also, If we could have just straight answers to those questions, and not diverting or skirting around them, that’d be appreciated, thanks

 

[GBJ]

No.

Maybe you should look up the word ‘racist’ then, and stop throwing around similar accusations if you don’t know what it means.

 

[blues exile]

So three statements which attribute perspectives/abilities to people based purely on what race they happen to be are not racist? Bang goes any limited credibility you ever had as a commentator on political matters.

1) Divide and rule. This was in relation to the racist murder of Stephen Lawrence and her remarks were addressed to a black journalist who had tweeted that many black 'leaders' were put of touch with the people they purport to represent. Abbott's words were actually that these comments were 'playing into a divide and rule agenda that is as old as colonialism'. Divide and rule is of course built into the Tories DNA.
2) Finnish nurses. I suggest you look at the context in which these remarks were made. The real issue was and is one of recruitment and it is perfectly justified to query the importation of Finnish nurses into a multicultural location which was bound to lead to communication problems. Nothing racist about it.
3) Her analogy re NI is of course historically accurate and entirely appropriate. The protestants were imported into NI very much in the 'white settler' tradition in order to assert the dominance of England and the exploitation of and discrimination against the Catholics was up until recent times comparable to how the indigenous populations of Africa were treated by the colonial powers.
As to my credibility as a 'commentator' I notice I have a nearly 60% ratio of likes to my posts. How about you?

 

[MK Shrimper]

In fact Abbot's comments about nurses sound very pro-Brexit. I thought you and the other Brexiteers would be all over it....but no you choose to twist it as somehow racist. Why is that?

Ms Abbott later said: ``The issue is not one of colour - the issue is that people should not be recruited from overseas in an area of mass unemployment.''

 

[GBJ]

Wow. I’m astounded at the responses from the left, although I really shouldn’t be by now.

Abbott’s comments are the very definition of prejudiced, yet they’re being excused and downplayed by retorts that can only be classed as bollocks & waffle. They’re really old mild comments, they don’t matter anymore. No wait, It’s the Tories fault, no wait it’s immigrations fault.

As I said, earlier, the gift that keeps on giving

 

[Ricky Otto]

Wow. I’m astounded at the responses from the left, although I really shouldn’t be by now.

Abbott’s comments are the very definition of prejudiced, yet they’re being excused and downplayed by retorts that can only be classed as bollocks & waffle. They’re really old mild comments, they don’t matter anymore. No wait, It’s the Tories fault, no wait it’s immigrations fault.

As I said, earlier, the gift that keeps on giving

Assuming that a few people speak for "the left" is not really any different to assuming the whole of "the right" is racist based on a few peoples views.

I'd consider myself more aligned to the left than the right (albeit in a more central area) and the more hardline left on here have opinions I certainly don't agree with. Just as I don't think Rigsby speaks for everyone who voted brexit, even if he thinks he does.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

DA, racist? Possibly, minimally, but she has had some poor treatment and has a chip on the shoulder which is hard for anyone to carry. Potential to be worthy HS, not a chance but then there have been a few stinkers in that role however she would be a big security risk, only eclipsed by the terrorist & Putin's fav stooge Jezza.

 

[blues exile]

DA, racist? Possibly, minimally, but she has had some poor treatment and has a chip on the shoulder which is hard for anyone to carry. Potential to be worthy HS, not a chance but then there have been a few stinkers in that role however she would be a big security risk, only eclipsed by the terrorist & Putin's fav stooge Jezza.

I do love satire, thanks.

 

[GBJ]

Assuming that a few people speak for "the left" is not really any different to assuming the whole of "the right" is racist based on a few peoples views.

I'd consider myself more aligned to the left than the right (albeit in a more central area) and the more hardline left on here have opinions I certainly don't agree with. Just as I don't think Rigsby speaks for everyone who voted brexit, even if he thinks he does.

You’re right mate. You have my apologies.

 

[Ricky Otto]

You’re right mate. You have my apologies.

I'm guilty of it too at times of frustration so accepted

 

[GBJ]

In fact Abbot's comments about nurses sound very pro-Brexit. I thought you and the other Brexiteers would be all over it....but no you choose to twist it as somehow racist. Why is that?

Ms Abbott later said: ``The issue is not one of colour - the issue is that people should not be recruited from overseas in an area of mass unemployment.''

“twist it as somehow racist”...

I assume you find no fault with the comment?

Imagine this for a second...

MP Michael Gove was branded a racist yesterday after he slammed a hospital for hiring Caribbean nurses.

The MP said Caribbean nurses taken on because of staff shortages may "never have met a white person before, let alone touched one".

And he added: "The hospital should have taken on Scandanavian staff - they know the language, British culture and institutions.

"The Caribbean nurses are basically here to improve their English and are unlikely to give the Health Service a lifetime's commitment."

You wouldn’t consider that to be slightly prejudiced at all?

Pull the other one.

 

[Bielzibubz]

You are ,I imagine,aware that a no-deal Brexit would be a catastrophe for the UK? Acording to the IMF it would deplete GDP by 8% in the first year alone.

Ohh the IMF, that oh so honourable body that is in itself part and parcel of the Euro Group problem. They have an enormous vested interest in maintaining the status quo and any 'opinion' they put forward is clouded in bias and propaganda.

 

[Bielzibubz]

So Uber Brexiteer James Dyson has relocated his HQ to Singapore soon after a free trade deal between the EU and Singapore was announced. Sony have relocated to The Netherlands with a loss of 1000 jobs. CitiBank are looking to move their operational base into the EU.

Ever get a feeling you've been conned?

Depends on which way and how deeply you want to read into things. Very easy to cherry pick headlines and score points without actually posting the substance of the article in question so just for balance......


The company said the move to south-east Asia was not driven by Brexit or tax.

Mr Rowan said: "The move is nothing to do with Brexit or tax, it's about making sure we are future proofed. There are huge revenue opportunities in Singapore, China is the poster child of that.

"The tax difference is negligible for us, we are taxed all over the world and we will continue to pay tax in the UK. We will continue to invest in the UK, in Malmesbury, in Bristol and London."


He said that more than half of the company's profit came from Asia and added: "Our growth rate in Asia has doubled most other places in the world over recent years."


Bosses instead said the switch was motivated by wanting to be nearer its manufacturing bases and markets where it was seeing the biggest demand.

Mr Rowan told reporters on Tuesday: "It allows us to make sure we will be putting our best efforts to secure those opportunities, as well as keeping an eye on those investments, especially EV (electric vehicles) and batteries."