Question £80 million ?

[davewebbsbrain]

Yep what it means by "Southend till I die"

yeah, but do you HAVE to question every movement that anyone makes??

 

[shrimpfan]

Ian,

I appreciate what you are doing and i am interested in where the money will come from...... BUT why does Ron have to make public where he's going to get the money from ??? The club is a private business to which Ron (or Rons company owns the majority share), would you demand from Tesco's or Currys where the money is coming from to build their latest stores or even from Sainsburys to ask where the money will come form to develop Roots Hall ?? Could you imagine Peter Hill Wood at Arsenal disclosing the intimate financial details of building the Emirates ?? I am sure that if you made enquiries to the Chairman of each of the above you would be given short shrift. I personally think we are quite lucky that Ron throws us the crumbs of information that he does.
The only chance that i will get to ask any questions is at the AGM and i will ask a few but will be prepared for Ron to say he is unable to answer such questions at the moment.

@uck the crumbs we want a loaf of bread.iv been to enough agms to know they dont say much of any note about things they dont want to talk about.

 

[Irate Ian]

I agree, he should perhaps be telling us, the shareholders, what is going on, but perhaps its not something that he (or the potential financiers) wants to make public, perhaps the reason that he hasnt told us anything yet is because there is nothing to tell or he has only got half the picture and if he told us certain people would be moanig that he's only told us half of the story !!

I may be naive but there seem to be a lot of conspiracy theorists [this is a gross exaggeration - all we need to know is how all this will affect SUFC and what RM's financial plan means for the club in the long term and how the club are intended also to thrive at their potential new home] can be seen to not with regards to this project, Ron has not let us down yet [no suggestion of his having done so either] and i see no reason why he will over this, after all this is his real chance to make himself a bit of cash to which i do not begrudge him [and neither do I] .

Maybe I am just impatient [6 months or more after first raising the questions] to learn the "bigger picture" and "fine detail" of the development insofar as it will impact uopn the financial stability of SUFC into the long future.

Surely supporters/shareholders would like to also know and/or have healthy debate upon & during the process, or are we all content to simply be placed into a position of "fait accompli" [take it or leave it].

RM must have a business plan mapped
out for the club, but what is it; or are we
not entitled to ask the question ?

 

[weststander]

Maybe I am just impatient [6 months or more after first raising the questions] to learn the "bigger picture" and "fine detail" of the development insofar as it will impact uopn the financial stability of SUFC into the long future.

Surely supporters/shareholders would like to also know and/or have healthy debate upon & during the process, or are we all content to simply be placed into a position of "fait accompli" [take it or leave it].

RM must have a business plan mapped
out for the club, but what is it; or are we
not entitled to ask the question ?

Can i just ask Ian, are you a shareholder ???

 

[Irate Ian]

Can i just ask Ian, are you a shareholder ???

No a life supporter and an independent raiser of questions, with no ulterior motive, agenda, financial or other interests, whatsoever.

I will swear on a stack of bibles and can be quoted on this.

Maybe other who are shareholders could consider writing to request some of the questions be placed onto the agm agenda well in advance ?

 

[weststander]

No a life supporter and an independent raiser of questions, with no ulterior motive, agenda, financial or other interests, whatsoever.

I will swear on a stack of bibles and can be quoted on this.

Maybe other who are shareholders could consider writing to request some of the questions be placed onto the agm agenda well in advance ?

Ok,

With all due respect you have no rights to answers to any of your questions then. Ok your a supporter, as am i, but do you go down to the Odeon cinema and ask to see their business plan or for them to justify their seating prices ?? Thought not.

Have you considered that due to the 'credit crunch' Ron has had ro re-jig his business plan and due to this has been unable to answer some of your questions for the fear of incurring your wrath if they have to be tinkered with still further.

As a shareholder myself, i will write in my capacity as such to see if i can get at least one of your questions placed onto the agenda when the AGM comes round, but until then i feel that we must wait until Ron is in a position to make public further details.

 

[Irate Ian]

Ok,

With all due respect you have no rights to answers to any of your questions then [B[I]][who the hell are you to tell me what to do, this remains a free country and I will bloody well exercise my rights until the cows come home regardless of what you believe my rights are][/[/I]B] .

Ok your a supporter, as am i, but do you go down to the Odeon cinema and ask to see their business plan or for them to justify their seating prices [what a rediculous annalogy being a member and follower of a club is somewhat different if you can't see that you must engage your brain before committing into writing such ludicrous suggestions] ?? Thought not.

Have you considered that due to the 'credit crunch' Ron has had ro re-jig his business plan [are you saying this as a fact or guessing ?] and due to this has been unable to answer some of your questions for the fear of incurring your wrath [RM does not fear me and has no need to do so - for Petes Sake get real] if they have to be tinkered with still further.

As a shareholder myself, i will write in my capacity as such to see if i can get at least one of your questions placed onto the agenda when the AGM comes round, but until then i feel that we must wait until Ron is in a position to make public further details.

There are mutilple shareholders and they can all make up their own minds on whether they are content with the current lack of information

 

[Irate Ian]

i think to be honest irate ian is sticking his nose it where its not welcome. Ron makes more statements then any chairman i know anywhere else and asking where every penny is coming from and going is none of ian's or most of our's business [I do not want to know anything at all about day to day current expenditure - where did you get that impression]. Refer to thread 6.3.2008 and The Future - Fossetts thread

Some clarification on the seat for life scheme will no doubt be forthcoming but from what i understand its just an idea at the moment. - only due to being forced into so doing RM was most insistent at 6 March meeting at not favouring this - despite it being embedded in the share issue prospectus - RM explanation "I have not read it" !!!

I am not afraid of ruffling a few feathers if that is what you mean, to stick my head above the parapet or walk into the lions den.

RM can be likended to a skilled politician [in the nicest possible way] and his release of information for public consumption not disimilar to: Spin

 

[weststander]

Ian,

This is all getting rather tiring and to be honest i think you are acting like a spoilt child.

I agree you have rights to ask questions and maybe i should have thought about my reply more fully, perhaps what i should have said is that Ron is completely within his rights not to answer any questions from the general public about his company if he chooses not to, (and yes it is his company because he is the majority shareholder, the rest of us shareholder own a very small part of the club. I ask you to remember the bad old days of Vic Jobson where he wouldnt even consider the other shareholders and did exactly what he wanted when he wanted, did you question him so vigourously??)

I chose my analogy rather carefully actually, considering that both businesses rely on 'bums on seats' to survive, if you would prefer one a little closer to home have you been in contact with Essex county cricket club enquire as to their business plan with regards to the refurbishment of the County Cround ??

Nowhere in my statement about the 'credit crunch' does it imply that i know anything and all i was asking that you simply consider the possibility.

My comment about Ron being afraid of you was flippant and i apologise.

Finally, yes there are lots of other shareholders, most who seem to be quite content in letting Ron get on with getting this stadium built rather than having to make public statements every five minutes to placate supporters who are too impatient and throw their toys out of their prams because the stadium is not yet built even though we've had full planning permission for a full 2 months !!!

 

[The Late One]

Ron may well have been his own worst enemy in this....since he has been involved with SUFC he has built trust amongst many of the supporters by giving them information about how the club is in safe hands, planning is going well, money will be available when planning gets go ahead, club will get income from industrial units future etc. etc. In return the fans done their bit and helped as much as they could in helping getting the new stadium plans passed.

Now that the planning has got the nod, players have been sold without the money going back into the team, extra shares have been made available to bring in extra income to the club and just recently the idea of "a seat for life" was suggested as a way to raise money. If (as Irate Ian says) RM has avoided answering his questions about how the new development will provide
financial stability of SUFC into the long future I do not think it is surprising that he is sounding somewhat concerned.

 

[weststander]

Ron may well have been his own worst enemy in this....since he has been involved with SUFC he has built trust amongst many of the supporters by giving them information about how the club is in safe hands, planning is going well, money will be available when planning gets go ahead, club will get income from industrial units future etc. etc. In return the fans done their bit and helped as much as they could in helping getting the new stadium plans passed.

Now that the planning has got the nod, players have been sold without the money going back into the team, extra shares have been made available to bring in extra income to the club and just recently the idea of "a seat for life" was suggested as a way to raise money. If (as Irate Ian says) RM has avoided answering his questions about how the new development will provide
financial stability of SUFC into the long future I do not think it is surprising that he is sounding somewhat concerned.

That is possibly true, he has been far more open than any other chairman i know of. Does anyone know for a FACT that any of the extra income streams Ron mentioned previously will not be forthcoming ?? As i said in an earlier post it could be that Ron needs to tweak things to get the project off the ground and that he has not been able to dot the I's and cross the t's yet so cant tell us anything.

With regards to the transfer fees and share options, ok so we havent spent anything yet, we know we are a small club and it is difficult to attract to players and Ron has said in the past he will never authorise wages that are going to bankrupt the club and i wholeheartedly agree with this. We also know that Ron has never refused Tilly money for players (as Billy Painter, Ritchie Foran and Matt Harrold show) and who is to say that Tilly will not be asking for these funds in the very near future ??

 

[Irate Ian]

Ian,

This is all getting rather tiring and to be honest i think you are acting like a spoilt child [no comment other than I refuse to exchange personal insults with you on what is a serious issue].

I agree you have rights to ask questions [ok apology accepted] and maybe i should have thought about my reply more fully, perhaps what i should have said is that Ron is completely within his rights not to answer any questions from the general public [there are thousands of supporters who are not shareholders many of whom may wish to have an in-sight into the clubs future - not simply the development] about his company if he chooses not to, (and yes it is his company because he is the majority shareholder, the rest of us shareholder own a very small part [you might be surprised at the rights afforded by the Companies Acts to minority shareholders] at the of the club.

I ask you to remember the bad old days of Vic Jobson where he wouldnt even consider the other shareholders and did exactly what he wanted when he wanted, did you question him so vigourously?? [your damn right I did - I recall in VJ's office his heated comment: "your no supporter of the club, to which my response was "No Vic your wrong there, I am a supporter of the club, it is just the management I do not - now that is not the case here, I have committed to state I am cautiously supportive of much if not all RM has done but until we know the the fine detail of his future business plan for SUFC as opposed to his development companies, I would like to reserve judgment ]


I chose my analogy rather carefully actually, considering that both businesses rely on 'bums on seats' to survive [yes but you can choose to go to mutiple cinemas if say the price is too high at another, whereas there is only one SUFC - our home town football club and one of the concerns is that ordinary people might be priced out , if you would prefer one a little closer to home have you been in contact with Essex county cricket club enquire as to their business plan with regards to the refurbishment of the County Cround [I dont really care what Essex CC do, I regard myself as a member of SUFC and my loyalties start and finish there]
Nowhere in my statement about the 'credit crunch' does it imply that i know anything and all i was asking that you simply consider the possibility [yes I have and that is just another worrying aspect upon which RM could if he chooses enlighten supporters upon
My comment about Ron being afraid of you was flippant and i apologise [accepted - thank you].

Finally, yes there are lots of other shareholders [have received positive PM's from a number of supporters who may or not be shareholders - does a shareholder necessarily have any more or less concern for the well being of the club we love and support than a mere supporter ?], most who seem to be quite content in letting Ron get on with getting this stadium built rather than having to make public statements every five minutes to placate supporters who are too impatient [impatience to which I admit is surrounding RM's failure to provide answers that he himself promised to provide nearly six months ago - ask The Flying Scotsman who was present at the meeting also ] and throw their toys out of their prams because the stadium is not yet built [the development is not the issue or part of the question, save perhaps: How does RM deal with the conflict of interest between his maximising profits from developing against SUFC minimising its long term overheads even though we've had full planning permission for a full 2 months !!!

The relocation of SUFC is the vehicle by which the whole development at RH and Fossetts is proposed to take place.

What consideration, or preferential terms, if any, does or is SUFC receive in return to assist to secure their tenure at the new stadium and eanble profitable trading existence at FF, or are we to be crippled/saddled with massively high rent demands

Will any seat for life income enure to the club or fund the development company for example - need to know if we may be asked to be backing the club or other compan[ies] and who the ultimate shareholders of other companies may be - viz: To Know with whom we may be dealing

 

[Irate Ian]

firstly I think its brilliant that tha likes of Irate Ian and elstree bring these issues to us the minions, they obviously know their beans, and raise many a good point and are asking the right questions, I personally do not see the ground being built in the current financial turmoil........if ever

Other Questions:


Would the current owners be prepared to offer within the proposed lease, either:-

A time limited option to buy the stadium at a fixed and index linked or interest bearing price, [once the final building costs are known] in favour of The Supporters Trust or similar body of supporters.

A first refusal to buy the stadium, once built, if at any time in the future they were to consider pulling out/selling ?

and

Has it been considered to seek to raise the capital cost of building through supporters viz: Is it possible that £8000 x 10,000 [or other increments] could be raised through supporters and local companies & or public bodies to fund £80M to loan to the current owners/developers to build the arena or some other form of private/public partnership basis ?