2017 General Election thread

[Tangled up in Blue]

So you would block legislation to protect the most exploited section of workers, rather than support May......How typical of the worst kind of champagne socialism.

Absolutely not.After all JC did offer to provide the Maybot with a copy of Labour's 2017 referendum the other day.I'm sure the PLP will be as helpful as it can.:winking:

In any case, we normally drink Cava in this household.Much more affordable.Pip,pip.:cheers:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You're right, the point wasn't complex, but you still managed to misinterpret it by saying I was comparing the SWP with the DUP, which I clearly wasn't.

So if the ********* party wouldn't need to compromise at all then why are there so many parties on the left? If they're so interchangeable what's the difference voting for any one of them? How do you distinguish your party from any of the others? You might as well ask people to vote for the Green party.

What argument would you put forward to ask people to vote for a party that makes excuses for homophobes, holocaust deniers, deniers of LGBT rights, and deniers of democracy?

Moreover, you seriously don't think the SNP wouldn't have asked for more money for Scotland?

SWP are an irrelevance.Greens are not as in some constituencies if Green votes move to Labour then Labour would take the seat. With the exception of Brighton where the Greens are established I would encourage all Green voters to vote Labour instead.


SNP always ask for more money for Scotland but they would rather have a Labour than a Tory government so a strong and stable leader would make that very clear - a Labour government would bring left wing policies to England, Scotland and Wales. In my opinion that would be enough.


That's all conjecture though. All we know is the Tories didn't use that argument with the DUP, they threw money at the problem.


For my mind that was totally unnecessary, you are happy for us to pay the money over just in case. Not much more to it than that.

 

[londonblue]

SWP are an irrelevance.Greens are not as in some constituencies if Green votes move to Labour then Labour would take the seat. With the exception of Brighton where the Greens are established I would encourage all Green voters to vote Labour instead.


SNP always ask for more money for Scotland but they would rather have a Labour than a Tory government so a strong and stable leader would make that very clear - a Labour government would bring left wing policies to England, Scotland and Wales. In my opinion that would be enough.


That's all conjecture though. All we know is the Tories didn't use that argument with the DUP, they threw money at the problem.


For my mind that was totally unnecessary, you are happy for us to pay the money over just in case. Not much more to it than that.

So labour would have to make the same concessions as the tories just did, but to Scotland rather than NI. You still haven't said what the difference between the parties is. All you have said is that they don't stand in the same constituencies, and that you would encourage the Greens to vote labour, but if there's no difference between the parties what's the point? You might as well vote Green, and practice what you're preaching.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Meanwhile back in the real world, the Tories are hoping they can survive PMQ's later today,introduce their Reform legislation tomorrow and hope nothing comes out of the Grenfell enquiry over the summer.That way they might be able to struggle through until the party conference season in Septemper before calling another G/E later in the year. :smiles:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So labour would have to make the same concessions as the tories just did, but to Scotland rather than NI. You still haven't said what the difference between the parties is. All you have said is that they don't stand in the same constituencies, and that you would encourage the Greens to vote labour, but if there's no difference between the parties what's the point? You might as well vote Green, and practice what you're preaching.

I clearly said there would be no need to give SNP any concessions to support a left wing government. They always want more money for Scotland, you just say no.

I didn't read the Green manifesto, I have no interest in investing in a minority party when there is a major party that reflects my views. Again somehow you have decided to totally misrepresent what I wrote. I see no advantage in voting Green when you can vote Labour.

 

[kaymac]

Is this a debating thread or just one for arguments? There's a helluva a lot of repetitive stuff on it!

 

[londonblue]

I clearly said there would be no need to give SNP any concessions to support a left wing government. They always want more money for Scotland, you just say no.

I didn't read the Green manifesto, I have no interest in investing in a minority party when there is a major party that reflects my views. Again somehow you have decided to totally misrepresent what I wrote. I see no advantage in voting Green when you can vote Labour.

I'm sorry, but that is naive in the extreme.

And you can't differentiate the party you support from any other on the left? All you're saying is that you vote for them because they're bigger.

 

[rigsby]

Is this a debating thread or just one for arguments? There's a helluva a lot of repetitive stuff on it!

That's because *** has become the mrsblue of politics, even hijacking the Grenfell fire thread.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm sorry, but that is naive in the extreme.

And you can't differentiate the party you support from any other on the left? All you're saying is that you vote for them because they're bigger.

'dear the SNP, would you like to support a party with left wing policies to keep out one with right wing policies?'

dear the DUP, would you like to support a party with rightvwing policies to keep out one with left wing policies?'

it's that simple and the public don't get saddled with an extra billion of debt

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

That's because *** has become the mrsblue of politics, even hijacking the Grenfell fire thread.

a poster states that the thread is argumentative and your reaction is to try to drag arguments from another thread over to this one, I don't think that was the reaction they were hoping for

 

[londonblue]

'dear the SNP, would you like to support a party with left wing policies to keep out one with right wing policies?'

dear the DUP, would you like to support a party with rightvwing policies to keep out one with left wing policies?'

it's that simple and the public don't get saddled with an extra billion of debt

It really isn't that simple. Anyone, and any party, will take the opportunity to better their own cause. To think otherwise is extremely naive. Your "conversation" above is just wrong. It would have been more like:

dear the DUP, would you like to support a party with rightvwing {sic} policies to keep out one with left wing policies?'

Ok, but if you want that guaranteed, what's in it for us?

The same would be true for the SNP.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It really isn't that simple. Anyone, and any party, will take the opportunity to better their own cause. To think otherwise is extremely naive. Your "conversation" above is just wrong. It would have been more like:

dear the DUP, would you like to support a party with rightvwing {sic} policies to keep out one with left wing policies?'

Ok, but if you want that guaranteed, what's in it for us?

The same would be true for the SNP.

I disagree.
And there shouldn't be a guarantee to vote a particular way, policy should be scrutinised not rubber stamped to secure a payment that would not exist otherwise. That set up doesn't sound legal.

 

[londonblue]

I disagree.
And there shouldn't be a guarantee to vote a particular way, policy should be scrutinised not rubber stamped to secure a payment that would not exist otherwise. That set up doesn't sound legal.

If you enter into a coalition that's what you've done. The ********* party would have done the same with the SNP, and the SNP would have won some concessions. Extra funding would have been one, and a 2nd referendum would most likely have been another.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I clearly said there would be no need to give SNP any concessions to support a left wing government. They always want more money for Scotland, you just say no.

I didn't read the Green manifesto, I have no interest in investing in a minority party when there is a major party that reflects my views. Again somehow you have decided to totally misrepresent what I wrote. I see no advantage in voting Green when you can vote Labour.

I didn't read the Green manifesto either but tbf to the Greens they have done oustanding work on making the public aware of enviromental issues.They are also part of a movement which is much more strongly represented in mainland Europe than the UK,especially in Germany.Also, in Caroline Lucas they have an outstanding MP.

In fact, were I living in a parliamentary constituency where Labour had no chance of winning the seat, I'd certainly be tempted to vote Green.That's certainly something I've done many times here in Spain where the Greens seek to form alliances with left-wing parties at local,national and European elections.Hence my support for a similar "rainbow coalition" in the UK.

Let's face it, if Labour are to govern after the next GE then they will probably need support from the SNP,LibDems and the Greens.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I didn't read the Green manifesto either but tbf to the Greens they have done oustanding work on making the public aware of enviromental issues.They are also part of a movement which is much more strongly represented in mainland Europe than the UK,especially in Germany.Also, in Caroline Lucas they have an outstanding MP.

In fact were I living in a parliamentary constituency where Labour had no chance of winning the seat I'd certainly be tempted to vote Green.That's certainly something I've done many times here in Spain where the Greens seek to form alliances with left-wing parties at local,national and European elections.Hence my support for a similar "rainbow coalition" in the UK.

Agree that Lucas is a very positive influence in Parliament and am happy that she represents Brighton. On the whole though I'd rather the left vote went to Labour, I've seen first hand in Croydon in 2015 where if a handful of voters voting Green rather than Labour led to a Tory MP - I think if they had known that was at steak some would have changed their vote.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

If you enter into a coalition that's what you've done. The ********* party would have done the same with the SNP, and the SNP would have won some concessions. Extra funding would have been one, and a 2nd referendum would most likely have been another.

I think we established a while back that you believe concessions are need to secure the support of a smaller party, and I disagree.
Where Labour is concerned that is all guesswork, the Tories have felt it necessary to cut deals in two of the last three General Elections.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Agree that Lucas is a very positive influence in Parliament and am happy that she represents Brighton. On the whole though I'd rather the left vote went to Labour, I've seen first hand in Croydon in 2015 where if a handful of voters voting Green rather than Labour led to a Tory MP - I think if they had known that was at steak some would have changed their vote.

Perhaps the Green voters in Croyden you speak about were vegans. :winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Perhaps the Green voters in Croyden you speak about were vegans. :winking:

I'm vegan so that is no excuse!

 

[Gremlin]

Absolutely not.After all JC did offer to provide the Maybot with a copy of Labour's 2017 referendum the other day.

He should give a copy to Chuka Umunna.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

He should give a copy to Chuka Umunna.

Perhaps Chuka would be happier in the LibDems? :winking: