Question 9/11

[Tangled up in Blue]

You will never hear the truth, you will only be allowed to hear what they want you to. The rich run the world....no conspriacy there at all......control the masses by any means.

Don't seem to remember you being too interested in Marxism at H.C,John.

 

[GBJ]

For those who believe the official story, I’d love to hear your take on some of the strange occurrences surrounding the official story.

I could write a very long list, but I’ll keep it to just two questions, which have always bugged me.

- Do you believe that a passport would have survived the initial blast, found its way out of a hijackers pocket, escaped the towering inferno and managed to end up a quarter of a mile away, only to be found in an unscathed manner, by an anonymous passer-by.

- Do you believe that the Captain of United 77 - the plane that hit the Pentagon - Charles Burlingame, a highly decorated military man, who had served his country in Vietnam & The Gulf War, gave up control of his plane, in under 3 minutes, to a rag-tag bunch of midgets armed with Stanley knives?

 

[GBJ]

I do not believe it was an "inside job", I never have and never will. How can anyone believe the American government would do this to their own people and that thousands of people could be sacrificed?

Collateral damage.

This is the same country that gave the 9/11 Commission a budget of $15m to investigate the biggest atrocity on their soil.

Meanwhile, the same country gave The Starr Report, which investigated Bill Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky scandal, nearly $80m.

Even the 9/11 Commission chairman Thomas Kean, admitted that the Commission “had been set up to fail”.

That in itself is very telling

 

[southendkid]

For those who believe the official story, I’d love to hear your take on some of the strange occurrences surrounding the official story.

I could write a very long list, but I’ll keep it to just two questions, which have always bugged me.

- Do you believe that a passport would have survived the initial blast, found its way out of a hijackers pocket, escaped the towering inferno and managed to end up a quarter of a mile away, only to be found in an unscathed manner, by an anonymous passer-by.

- Do you believe that the Captain of United 77 - the plane that hit the Pentagon - Charles Burlingame, a highly decorated military man, who had served his country in Vietnam & The Gulf War, gave up control of his plane, in under 3 minutes, to a rag-tag bunch of midgets armed with Stanley knives?

I don't see what the point of forging the passport discovery would be considering that they knew who was on the flight from the manifest anyway (along with scans of passports) but this isn't the first time paper has survived an inferno from a plane crash whilst larger items were damaged beyond repair. On Flight 1711 a pilot commited a murder suicide and wrote a suicide note on a paper bag prior to crashing, the plane itself disintegrated on impact but the paper suicide note was found intact.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771

I can't find anything about a passport being found a quarter of a mile away, aside from one report that was quickly ridiculed, where's the source for this? Plenty of items from the wreckage ended up outside the tower, when there's a big hole in the building light things are going to get blown away, were all those other items just scattered outside to put people off the scent? I don't see why the passport has to be in his pocket either, I generally put mine in my bag during the flight.

Charles Burlingame was in the navy, the US navy is not trained in hand to hand combat as far as I'm aware so I don't see why he would have the skills to fight off someone with a knife.

 

[Tinks]

I find it very hard to perceive that it was an “inside job”
Whilst on holiday last year I had the privilege of speaking to the air traffic control officer who was working that awful day.
He gave a very graphic account of the events from his perspective and he said that day is as vivid all these years as it was then and he did not return to that line of work.

 

[GBJ]

I don't see what the point of forging the passport discovery would be considering that they knew who was on the flight from the manifest anyway (along with scans of passports)

The idea would be to reinforce the official story. Nothing reinforces a story more than actual “evidence”.

but this isn't the first time paper has survived an inferno from a plane crash whilst larger items were damaged beyond repair. On Flight 1711 a pilot commited a murder suicide and wrote a suicide note on a paper bag prior to crashing, the plane itself disintegrated on impact but the paper suicide note was found intact.

Where was this note found? In the wreckage? Where had it been left? Laying around the cockpit? In the pilots pocket?

You see, Satam al-Suqami’s passport was found before the towers fell, and away from the impact zone.

His body, as far as I’m aware, was never recovered & is believed to have disintegrated in the crash.

So, his body is vaporised, but the paper passport, that he would have had somewhere on his person at the time of his body being vaporised has managed to survive the blast, escape his person, escape the wreckage, escape the building, and wander a couple of blocks away.

And that seems plausible to you?

(I can't find anything about a passport being found a quarter of a mile away, aside from one report that was quickly ridiculed, where's the source for this?)

It was found on Vesey Street.

Charles Burlingame was in the navy, the US navy is not trained in hand to hand combat as far as I'm aware so I don't see why he would have the skills to fight off someone with a knife.

He was also a 6”4 weight-lifter, who used to box in his flight school days. He was an ardened patriot, who aside from the aforementioned tours of Vietnam & the Gulf War, had also been through the intense SERE (Survival Evasion Resistance Escape) training. Friends described him as being “a very tough guy”.

Personally, I wouldn’t have fancied a square go with him.

Yet, a group of five young men, weighing very little & standing at heights of 5”5, armed with small knives, managed to completely relieve him of his aircraft, with no violence... in under 3 minutes.

Does that honestly sound plausible?

You see, this is the thing with 9/11, it seems that almost every individual occurrence that happened on that day, were all highly improbable or downright implausible. Yet they all supposedly happened. On the same day. At the same time.

- What odds would you get on a hardened veteran giving his plane up to a few midgets?

- What odds would you get on a passport surviving the blast & being found on the street a few hundred yards away

- What odds would you get on several passports not only surviving impact, but remaining in decent condition

- What odds would you get on a 47-story steel building totally collapsing on itself, due to office fires

- What odds would you get on a BBC reporter, reporting that that very same 47-story steel building had collapsed, when in truth it was still standing, and continued standing for a further 20 minutes.

- What odds would you get on the American Airforce playing war games miles out at sea, on the same day as this event happening.

- What odds would you get on the American Airforce actually practicing for hijacked planes being crashed into buildings on that day.

- What odds would you get on the Joint Chiefs Of Staff being totally unreachable on that day.

- What odds would you get on the President remaining in a school classroom for 8 minutes after the second plane had hit.

- What odds would you get on a “novice” pilot managing to pull off a manoeuvre that trained, experienced pilots admit they could not.

- What odds would you get on an unresponsive plane being allowed to fly at low altitude, towards the home of America’s defence headquarters, totally unchallenged.

- What odds would you get that none of the pilots sent the hijack code on any of the planes

- What odds would you get that both black boxes were destroyed at The WTC

- What odds would you get on a plane with a 125-foot-wingspan fitting into a hole of 60-foot-width at The Pentagon


But most importantly... what odds would you get on ALL OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME, ON THE SAME DAY!!

That’s one hell of an accumulator

 

[rigsby]

I do not believe it was an "inside job", I never have and never will. How can anyone believe the American government would do this to their own people and that thousands of people could be sacrificed?

What we do know is that the people who tested the air in lower Manhattan within days of 9/11, produced a report that highlighted how dangerous and toxic it all was. They were forced by the Bush administration to alter their report. They then sent emergency workers and clear up teams in for months without the right protection. Whilst assuring everyone every thing was OK.

The last time I checked the death toll from all the new forms of cancer, amongst just the Firefighters who spent time on the "Pile" was 173.....with many more to come.....Their battle for recognition continues.

 

[rigsby]

I don't see what the point of forging the passport discovery would be considering that they knew who was on the flight from the manifest anyway (along with scans of passports) but this isn't the first time paper has survived an inferno from a plane crash whilst larger items were damaged beyond repair. On Flight 1711 a pilot commited a murder suicide and wrote a suicide note on a paper bag prior to crashing, the plane itself disintegrated on impact but the paper suicide note was found intact.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771

I can't find anything about a passport being found a quarter of a mile away, aside from one report that was quickly ridiculed, where's the source for this? Plenty of items from the wreckage ended up outside the tower, when there's a big hole in the building light things are going to get blown away, were all those other items just scattered outside to put people off the scent? I don't see why the passport has to be in his pocket either, I generally put mine in my bag during the flight.

Charles Burlingame was in the navy, the US navy is not trained in hand to hand combat as far as I'm aware so I don't see why he would have the skills to fight off someone with a knife.

The passport was handed to Bernhard Kerik the NYPD chief. On 9/11 he is the guy permanently next to mayor Guiliani's and advising him. He announced it on TV, there is footage somewhere on the net.

In another of those many coincidences, Kerik later won the rather lucrative contract to train the new Iraqi police force...….He was later jailed back in the US for 4 years for whole list of corrupt activities.

 

[rigsby]

This will clear up any doubts in just 5 minutes

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uolOrjvy910

 

[MK Shrimper]

The trouble with this thread (and every other "conspiracy" thread) is that are two distinct camps -

a) Those who believe in conspiracy theories and take everything they read on the Internet/see on YouTube as a fact without querying any of the points raised. Everything they hear strengthens their beliefs and anyone who questions these beliefs is either "gullable" or "part of the problem" or "controlled by the media". Anything that it put forward that casts doubts on their theories is ignored of dismissed.

b) The exact opposite of A.

And never the twain shall meet.

 

[Tyga]

I think I have some photos of bigfoot somewhere...

 

[GBJ]

The trouble with this thread (and every other "conspiracy" thread) is that are two distinct camps -

a) Those who believe in conspiracy theories and take everything they read on the Internet/see on YouTube as a fact without querying any of the points raised. Everything they hear strengthens their beliefs and anyone who questions these beliefs is either "gullable" or "part of the problem" or "controlled by the media". Anything that it put forward that casts doubts on their theories is ignored of dismissed.

b) The exact opposite of A.

And never the twain shall meet.

You’re right.

The only thing I’d suggest though, is that the things I’ve mentioned aren’t wild theories that have been bandied about on YouTube. These are actual things reported by the 9/11 Commission Report, (except for the WTC7 building, as that for some unknown reason was totally OMITTED from the Commission’s report)

I, like many others have done, am pointing out the sheer lunacy & improbability of their report.

As I mentioned before, I don’t (and won’t) buy into the total ridiculousness of CGI planes or any other dumb (money-making) theory. I won’t believe everything I see and hear, and i’ll Always try and look at it from a balanced viewpoint.

How anyone can actually look at the Commission’s findings, and think that all of those highly implausible things happened on the same day, at the same time, is beyond me.

Edit: I’m not even gunna try & suggest the usual flannel, such as “Bush did it”, or “jet fuel doesn’t melt steel beams”. I honestly have no clue what happened on that day, but it’s certainly not the twaddle that the 9/11 Commission trotted out to us

 

[rigsby]

If we just stick to the official story......Look up a man named Ted Olson....He was the US Solicitor General. He represented George Bush in the supreme court case Bush v Gore. He stopped the recount of the presidential election of 2000. He had also represented, with some success, a guy who was spying in the US on behalf of the Israelis.

The only member of public to get through to anyone from a phone on flight 77 was non other than Teds wife Barbara Olson. We know this because Ted was the first person to tell the world about the box cutters on a TV interview just a couple of days later (worth a watch).

Ted told us that Barbara was at the back of the plane with the pilot Charles Burlingame, as mentioned by GBJ. In fact Barbara asked over the phone what to tell the pilot. Shame that neither the pilot or co-pilot had grabbed their crash axe. In case you don't know they have these special designed axes within reach of each pilots chair for the very reason they may have to cut themselves out in the event of a crash. You would have thought a man who won wrestling competitions in college would not have given up his plane without fuss and then resorted to asking a Solicitor he had never met for advise over the phone.

Ted said his soon to be divorced wife had changed her flight at the last minute so she could be with him an extra day. So she ended up on flight 77 and used the seat back phone during the hi-jacking......Boeing said their wasn't any phone on that plane......Then Ted said she used her mobile.....The FBI said there is no evidence of her phone connecting to anyone at the time of the flight. The 9/11 commission never cleared that up for us.

 

[GBJ]

If we just stick to the official story......Look up a man named Ted Olson....He was the US Solicitor General. He represented George Bush in the supreme court case Bush v Gore. He stopped the recount of the presidential election of 2000. He had also represented, with some success, a guy who was spying in the US on behalf of the Israelis.

The only member of public to get through to anyone from a phone on flight 77 was non other than Teds wife Barbara Olson. We know this because Ted was the first person to tell the world about the box cutters on a TV interview just a couple of days later (worth a watch).

Ted told us that Barbara was at the back of the plane with the pilot Charles Burlingame, as mentioned by GBJ. In fact the Charles, was asking Ted, via Barbara on the phone what to do. Shame that neither the pilot or co-pilot had grabbed their crash axe. In case you don't know they have these special designed axes within reach of each pilots chair for the very reason they may have to cut themselves out in the event of a crash. You would have thought a man who won wrestling competitions in college would not have given up his plane without fuss and then resorted to asking a Solicitor he had never met for advise over the phone.

Ted said his soon to be divorced wife had changed her flight at the last minute so she could be with him an extra day. So she ended up on flight 77 and used the seat back phone during the hi-jacking......Boeing said their wasn't any phone on that plane......Then Ted said she used her mobile.....The FBI said there is no evidence of her phone connecting to anyone at the time of the flight. The 9/11 commission never cleared that up for us.

Flight 77 has never made sense to me, and the Commission’s report certainly didn’t clear any of that up.

Did the Americans ever reveal the reason behind them not releasing actual footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon that day?

I’m not saying it was anything other than a plane, I’m just suggesting that showing an irrefutable clip of the incident would go a long way towards dispelling the “drone/missile” theories.

 

[rigsby]

Flight 77 has never made sense to me, and the Commission’s report certainly didn’t clear any of that up.

Did the Americans ever reveal the reason behind them not releasing actual footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon that day?

I’m not saying it was anything other than a plane, I’m just suggesting that showing an irrefutable clip of the incident would go a long way towards dispelling the “drone/missile” theories.

What is not widely known is that George Bush was due to land at the pentagon heliport later that day after returning from Florida. That's why all the security were already in place and were so quick to impound any CCTV. They even ripped down cameras.

At least 13 credible witnesses, including the controller of the heliport and police have said it was a white plane and came from a different angle than the official story.

I will avoid talking from a Firefighting angle on this thread as most people wont understand but looking at the Pentagon pictures and from the time lapse CCTV I can see there is two seats of fire.

There is early TV reports by people at the scene of more than one explosion. They are never shown again but can be viewed on the net.

 

[Napster]

I will avoid talking from a Firefighting angle on this thread as most people wont understand.

big of you.

Im now definitely not getting involved. you and GBJ can just talk at each other.

 

[rigsby]

big of you.

Im now definitely not getting involved. you and GBJ can just talk at each other.

What I meant was its far to long and complicated so lets stick to stuff we can all understand. That way intelligent people like yourself can join in and debate like an adult.

 

[GBJ]

big of you.

Im now definitely not getting involved. you and GBJ can just talk at each other.

Ok. Thanks for letting us know x

 

[The Big Dady]

Where is the "It was aliens from another world" option?

 

[Ricey]

I love this debate it always brings up the same arguments people for it being an inside job go mental for it and people who don’t go mental at those who do.

I’ve watched a lot of the conspiracy theories, I love all conspiracy theories. The one about Sir Paul McCartney always makes me chuckle.

This one always confuses me though as there is so many things that don’t add up. Something doesn’t smell right. It’s not as cut and dry as the doubters of the inside job make out.

It’s one of the things we will never know the true answers too.