A bit of myth busting and a lesson to be learned

[fbm]

We've survived. Maybe the dawn has finally broken after what hopefully has been our darkest hour.

But I think it's time to reflect on what could have been done differently to avoid us being in this position again.

Firstly, a bit of myth busting and there are several on here that hold the following opinions; this is not a dig at anyone so please don't take offence, but try and read with an open mind.

Myth 1 - Ron will sell up and sail off into the sunset as soon as FF is built.

I very much doubt that... he will have invested 25 years plus of his life in the club and will have achieved his dream. First off, what's left to sell? Secondly, he is known locally and to sell a football club, leaving it to flounder and just walk away, well... if he's got any sense he won't do that. I don't think he'll do that. In fact, I can't see any benefit at all to him of just walking away unless he was only ever after a quick buck. History shows quite clearly that there's nothing quick about the buck he will be earning.

Myth 2 - Ron has mismanaged the club.

Again, I beg to differ on this. What he has done is not mismanagement at all. He has somehow kept us solvent, out of administration and has avoided all points deductions, although one has been deferred, He has been guilty of trusting his managers too much and backing them to the hilt, plus a bit. We all want as high a standard of football as possible and he has tried to provide that. The price has been being a bit star struck with big names and paying far too high wages than we can sustain in an attempt to get us back into the Championship.

So, what lesson can now be learned? The debt has been paid, which shows that - even in these strange, COVID-19 times - he has access to money. Personally what I would like to see is for that money to be utilised BEFORE we end up in front of HMRC again. That said, I do think that these historic tax bills were as a result of a PAYE windfall for HMRC after so many players were cut loose in January, plus the management incumbents of Powell, Bond and Campbell et al. We won't be making any money so Corporation Tax isn't an issue, there's little income so neither is VAT and most of our players are now on peanuts, so it's a much smaller PAYE going forwards.

The embargo will soon be lifted and whilst we can't buy anyone, there are some decent free agents available we could get in. Or we could wait until January but that is a recipe for disaster... we might be sunk without trace by then.

Please Ron, don't put us all through this again. Buy players within he club's means and let's leave ourselves in a good position when the transfer window comes around.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

It kinda helps when you offload a pile of expensive dead weight, as well as getting transfer fees for two up-and-comings.
Now, don't screw it up Ron by giving contracts to loafers on the look for a last payday.

 

[onceknownasrab]

I agree with much of what fbm says but I'm not sure RM won't sell the club. Yes he has 25 years with the club but I imagine, with the historic problems, that's enough for anyone to bear. If he sells he can still be a supporter, albeit from some Caribbean tax haven.

Once he has completed the FF project I think he may well sell the club. Job done as it were. I still worry that it's already a fair accompli and HR is set to be the new supremo. I was suspicious when MM, came from nowhere to get the managers job, even though I like the appointment. There are other factors too that add fuel to the fire in my head and I just pray I am wrong.

 

[graingerroad54]

I agree with much of what fbm says but I'm not sure RM won't sell the club. Yes he has 25 years with the club but I imagine, with the historic problems, that's enough for anyone to bear. If he sells he can still be a supporter, albeit from some Caribbean tax haven.

Once he has completed the FF project I think he may well sell the club. Job done as it were. I still worry that it's already a fair accompli and HK is set to be the new supremo. I was suspicious when MM, came from nowhere to get the managers job, even though I like the appointment. There are other factors too that add fuel to the fire in my head and I just pray I am wrong.

Who is HK and please explain your suspicions if it is not libelous!

 

[fbm]

Who is HK and please explain your suspicions if it is not libelous!

HenriK Larsson?

Harry RedKnapp?

 

[Camden Blues]

HenriK Larsson?

Harry RedKnapp?

Harry Kewell - that's why he really wasn't there last night!

 

[Barling Magna]

Hong Kong?

 

[Tommy2holes]

There are 90% of efl clubs that function perfectly fine, live within their means and don't appear in court or in hot water for not paying their own players.

We probably have better gates than 30 to 40% of efl clubs yet our illustrious chairman is unable to blanace the books without efl sanctions, knocking the HRMC or selling everything but the kitchen sink.

Yeah he is everything we had hoped for and we should be so lucky he paid a bill that every other club paid straight away. Total Hero.

The biggest myth amongst fans is that Ronald is the best we can hope for.

Total ****. He is one of the worst chairman in the entire football league.

 

[Wickford Blue]

Why hasn't he employed a CEO to run the football side of the business - didn't he say he had someone lined up at one time?

 

[Mad Cyril]

Who is HK and please explain your suspicions if it is not libelous!

Henry Kissinger.

 

[Stuart W]

Who is HK and please explain your suspicions if it is not libelous!

I thought everyone knew.
It is Henry Kelly with a new series of 'Game for a Laugh' live from Roots Hall.

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

Point 2 is utterly incorrect. Have you seen the clubs accounts? Waste after waste after waste. Incurring fees, penalties, interest etc on overdue bills.
Many many poor financial decisions made. Probably goes into millions over the years.

Mismanagement doesn’t even cover it.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Why hasn't he employed a CEO to run the football side of the business - didn't he say he had someone lined up at one time?

When the time is right he said. We have let staff go because of wages. We couldn't afford the basics at the training ground at one stage. Some players and staff weren't being paid. So now maybe not the time for an expensive CEO, even tho we need one.

 

[GBJ]

If Ron genuinely isn’t interested in selling the club in the near future @fbm, wouldn’t you agree that it was an odd move to wipe out £6m worth of debt last year, which just so happened to coincide with the Dutch consortium making their enquires?

Are those the actions of someone who wants to remain in place long-term? If it were me, I’d be quite keen on protecting my investment, not scratching a significant chunk of it from the books.

As for Ron’s management, 17 winding up orders in a little over a decade would indicate that we haven’t been running at a sustainable level for a long time. How many teams in the EFL have lower crowds & lesser wage bills than us, yet still manage to pay both HMRC and their players on time?

The simple fact is that we’ve lived beyond our means for a long time, and sadly not for the first time, it’s come back to bite us hard.

I don’t think Ron is some monster, hell bent on destroying our club, but ultimately he’s made some awful decisions over the course of time, and we’re paying for them now.

At the end of the day, there’s only one man who agrees the deals & signs the cheques. If it’s not his fault, then I’m stumped as to who is responsible for our club being in such a terrible state.

 

[Tampa Blue]

Myth 1 - agree (unfortunately)
Myth 2 - disagree

 

[Ricey]

Myth 1 - agree (unfortunately)
Myth 2 - disagree

I disagree with both and think @GBJ has explained it perfectly.

 

[fbm]

If Ron genuinely isn’t interested in selling the club in the near future @fbm, wouldn’t you agree that it was an odd move to wipe out £6m worth of debt last year, which just so happened to coincide with the Dutch consortium making their enquires?

Are those the actions of someone who wants to remain in place long-term? If it were me, I’d be quite keen on protecting my investment, not scratching a significant chunk of it from the books.

Which is what he has consistently done so far.

Listen, I have no idea what really went on back then. But just because at long last he was going to bring in some outside investment (which is what a lot of people have been clamouring for) doesn't mean he was going to disappear. I think he will be very much involved post FF and in a majority position so that he can still call the shots. If he really wants out he can achieve that as there are, has been and will be no shortage of people looking to invest. I just don't think anyone is willing to come in on Ron's terms (and I reckon that was the big issue last year). The fact is that once FF is built and RH has been developed, who would then be interested in buying SUFC when there is no land attached to the deal? He would have no one to sell to.


As for Ron’s management, 17 winding up orders in a little over a decade would indicate that we haven’t been running at a sustainable level for a long time. How many teams in the EFL have lower crowds & lesser wage bills than us, yet still manage to pay both HMRC and their players on time?

The simple fact is that we’ve lived beyond our means for a long time, and sadly not for the first time, it’s come back to bite us hard.

At the end of the day, I don’t think Ron is some monster, hell bent on destroying our club, but ultimately he’s made some awful decisions over the course of time, and we’re paying for them now.

At the end of the day, there’s only one man who agrees the deals & signs the cheques. If it’s not his fault, then I’m stumped as to who is responsible for our club being in such a terrible state.

I'm not saying it's not his fault but I think people's idea of company mismanagement is flawed. Just because you can't pay debts on time, it does not mean the company is mis-managed. This is from the Tax Guru website and is quite interesting.

"Acts held as Mismanagement

The following acts have been held as amounting to mismanagement:-

• Where there is serious infighting between directors.
• Where Board of Directors is not legal and the illegality is being continued.
• Where bank account(s) was/were operated by unauthorized person(s).
• Where directors take no serious action to recover amounts embezzled.
• Continuation in office after expiry of term of directors.
• Sale of assets at low price and without compliance with the Act.
• Violation of Memorandum.
• Violation of statutory provisions and those of Articles.
• Company doomed to trade unprofitably.

Acts held as not Mismanagement

The following acts have been held to not to amount to Mismanagement:-

• Building up of reserves or non-declaration of dividend especially when it does not result in devaluation of shares.
• Merely because company incurs loss, mismanagement can’t be alleged.
• Arrangement with creditors in company’s bonafide interest.
• Removal of director and termination of works manager’s services."

So I'm not sure that Ron has actually done anything in the first section. We may all scream and look at the final one and claim that we must be doomed to trade unprofitably but that really isn't the case whilst there are potential player sales, cup runs etc that MIGHT happen.

Interestingly, in the second section, it says that you can't allege mismanagement just because a company makes a loss.

Football is a wholly unprofitable business below the Premiership. I'm not sure that 90% of the EFL clubs live within their means and I'm not sure that Ron is the worst chairman in the EFL either. Is he the best we can hope for? I've no idea. Maybe, maybe not. Ask Blackburn, Coventry, Blackpool and Charlton what they think. But he's who we have, he's who we are stuck with and without him at the moment the club will just fold.

 

[dannypav]

If Ron genuinely isn’t interested in selling the club in the near future @fbm, wouldn’t you agree that it was an odd move to wipe out £6m worth of debt last year, which just so happened to coincide with the Dutch consortium making their enquires?

Are those the actions of someone who wants to remain in place long-term? If it were me, I’d be quite keen on protecting my investment, not scratching a significant chunk of it from the books.

As for Ron’s management, 17 winding up orders in a little over a decade would indicate that we haven’t been running at a sustainable level for a long time. How many teams in the EFL have lower crowds & lesser wage bills than us, yet still manage to pay both HMRC and their players on time?

The simple fact is that we’ve lived beyond our means for a long time, and sadly not for the first time, it’s come back to bite us hard.

At the end of the day, I don’t think Ron is some monster, hell bent on destroying our club, but ultimately he’s made some awful decisions over the course of time, and we’re paying for them now.

At the end of the day, there’s only one man who agrees the deals & signs the cheques. If it’s not his fault, then I’m stumped as to who is responsible for our club being in such a terrible state.

I agree with most of your post , but you’ve highlighted a couple of Rons errors under the heading ‘at the end of the day’.
I would argue that Ron has probably made some bad decisions in the morning and early afternoon too - just to be fair.

 

[Neil_F]

Myth 2 - Ron has mismanaged the club.

I don't think you can reasonably label an opinion a myth.

Again, I beg to differ on this. What he has done is not mismanagement at all. He has somehow kept us solvent, out of administration and has avoided all points deductions, although one has been deferred,

This is the "no one died" defence. Is SUFC in a better of worse position now than when he acquired the club 25 years ago? We are on track to lose our football league status, the club doesn't own the ground and has no meaningful assets save for a successful youth setup.

He has been guilty of trusting his managers too much and backing them to the hilt, plus a bit. We all want as high a standard of football as possible and he has tried to provide that. The price has been being a bit star struck with big names and paying far too high wages than we can sustain in an attempt to get us back into the Championship.

And then some. He has totally mismanaged the finances of the club for the second time. This is what happened when we got relegated from the Championship. We over committed financially and then it all fell apart. We've done exactly the same thing this time.

You can describe it as ambition all you want, but the fundamentals are RM committed the club to expenditure it could not afford without being promoted. That is asking for trouble and, in my opinion, the very definition of mismanagement.

So, what lesson can now be learned? The debt has been paid, which shows that - even in these strange, COVID-19 times - he has access to money.

Paid from what source of funds? Does anyone actually know? What is the true cost to SUFC?

The embargo will soon be lifted and whilst we can't buy anyone, there are some decent free agents available we could get in. Or we could wait until January but that is a recipe for disaster... we might be sunk without trace by then.

The exceptional circumstances of Covid may bail us out on this, but I don't think SUFC has much of an attraction for players. The club is in a death spiral and has been for two years. Players have not been paid on numerous occasions so why take the risk for what is likely to be a miserable experience. True, it is a buyer's market and some players will have to take whatever they can get, but they won't be fit for weeks.

I think virtually everything rests on January so I hope it isn't too late by that point.

 

[GBJ]

Which is what he has consistently done so far.

Listen, I have no idea what really went on back then. But just because at long last he was going to bring in some outside investment (which is what a lot of people have been clamouring for) doesn't mean he was going to disappear. I think he will be very much involved post FF and in a majority position so that he can still call the shots. If he really wants out he can achieve that as there are, has been and will be no shortage of people looking to invest. I just don't think anyone is willing to come in on Ron's terms (and I reckon that was the big issue last year). The fact is that once FF is built and RH has been developed, who would then be interested in buying SUFC when there is no land attached to the deal? He would have no one to sell to

So, just to clarify, you believe that he was looking for outside investment last year, which was the reason for writing off £6m of debt?

Come on mate, does that even make sense to you?

The reason nobody will “come in” on Ron’s terms, is because Ron isn’t inviting anyone in. The sole reason for writing off that lump of debt, was to sweeten the deal, but the Dutch decided that without the planning permission, it was too much of a gamble.

From what I’ve been told, Frank Van Wezel is still very much interested in taking over the club (or at least he was pre-covid), But for that to happen, certain boxes need to be ticked first... I.e. the planning permission for the stadium being a main one.

I'm not saying it's not his fault but I think people's idea of company mismanagement is flawed. Just because you can't pay debts on time, it does not mean the company is mis-managed

No, but as @Neil_F has brilliantly surmised, this isn’t just about paying the taxman on time. We have actually gone backwards since Ron took majority control, and that’s despite exponential growth of the Football Club.

And when we get down to the nuts and bolts of if, it always comes back to Ron’s - expensive - decision making. Some of which, we’ve already experienced 10-years prior! Forget myths and opinions, that’s just stone cold fact.

Edit: And however you look at it, whether Ron became a fan, or he was bowing to fan pressure & expectations, he still made the calls, wrote the cheques & did the deals. Nobody else