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C C Csiders

Life President
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
12,192
Location
On the journey to spiritual enlightenment (via the
There is an air of inevitability about defeat against Bradford on Friday evening, and when (not if) this occurs the time for big decisions will have been reached. That will be six games without a win, and, at least 12 without a good performance. For a team that was top of the league, two games from Wembley and one from a 3rd round trip to Anfield this is simply not good enough. The manager seems to admit to selection mistakes every time he goes on BBC Essex post-match. Some may call this honesty but I call it fundamental mismanagement. Mismanagement which the Board (i.e. Brady and Martin) should seek to thrust aside, otherwise mid-table mediocrity will be the outcome. It is too late to make such decisions when Southend United drop out of, not only the promotion places, but the top seven, probably on current form by the end of January. Too late to take such decisions after the transfer window has slammed shut leaving any new incumbent with inadequate players for the job in hand.

So the manager led the team to a 17 game unbeaten run. An unbeaten run of a flat-track bully where good performances in the first few of those games were followed by poor performances where the team was inter alia outclassed by Oxford yet sneaked a win thanks to the individual brilliance of a player deemed not good enough to play in a game which could have meant £200k to a cash-strapped club; had a 1-0 victory against the same team who had a comedy stand-in goalkeeper for around 75 minutes of the match; and a 3-2 win against little more than a Conference club shorn of all confidence from a winless streak of mammoth proportions. The defeats in the league this season have all come against teams in the top 6 – proving the flat-track bully analogy. For as soon as the team has come against better quality opposition it has crumbled. Some will say that a 3-0 victory over Shrewsbury Town was amongst the wins. Indeed it was, but with two goals in injury time, after the Shrews had clattered the bar five minutes from the end.

Then there is the situation regarding the manager’s son. A player, let us not forget, grasped from the nettle of the Conference South; a player who has played around 90% of his league career under his father’s care. Ergo, a player deemed not good enough by the manager’s peers. Yet good enough to play for Southend United ahead of the club’s two leading scorers in the game against Oldham. The #ditchblairproject needs to gather momentum, but will not until his father is replaced. I don’t care that he holds the ball up well, there are plenty of players out there that can do that equally as well and better, and add far, far more than a player of his very limited ability.

The players have clearly scapegoated and victimised Bilel Mohsni following his two yellow cards last night. The lead seems to have been taken by the manager from his interview post-match. I can only assume Gael Clichy suffered equal torment at the hands of the Manchester City players on Monday night for his sending-off which saw them lose their unbeaten record. The players clearly lack class off the pitch (and some on it too), and for the likes of Gilbert to slate Bilel is sickening. For Bilel to be made the scapegoat for losing the club £200k is a disgrace. The buck stops with the manager in normal circumstances. He picked that team that most knew would not be capable of beating Oldham – a team which did not include the three leading scorers at the club so that they could make way for the aforementioned anti-striker. One man should be jettisoned, and that is not Bilel. “Oh! He’s had too many chances and let us down”, will be the cry. How many times did the much-vaunted (but totally limited) Roy McDonough get sent off? Was it ever said he should be kicked out of the club? It smacks of something more sinister to me. In any normal workplace such victimisation would be seen as bullying, and subject to disciplinary procedures. I’m not surprised that as one against 20 or so, Bilel feels the need to react. After all, isn’t it a reaction that bullies wish to see?

Losses breed losses I’m afraid and the fact that the manager (or someone close to him) comes on here to communicate with the fans should not paper over the crevices that are forming. The purpose of this season is to get out of this league and this manager is NOT fit for that purpose. The time to act is after Friday’s defeat. I can only hope that Brady and Martin will realise that. However, given the history of standing back and seeing what will happen amongst this Board, previous Board’s, and seemingly a majority of the fans I will not be holding my breath.
 
How can you come on here and say we ARE going to lose on Friday - call yourself a fan, not with comments like that you're not.

It terms of some of the points you have made; Gilbert did not slate Bilel, I listened to the interview and he was gutted and said we would have won with 11, but he did not specifically blame Bilel (and certainly didn't slate him, as you put it)

Also where do you work, as it my workplace (and I should think most other peoples) if I made mistake after mistake, was given warnings and then finally sacked, that wouldn't be classed as bullying!!!

I do wonder sometimes why people support football clubs, as all they seem to do is moan and whinge about everything and only seem happy when it's going wrong!!!
 
Personally I think this post is a huge over-reaction at this stage. Plus I have to defend Sturrock, Dicko was told 2 weeks ago that he would be rested from the cup games we had coming up as he was playing too many games (he is still injured remember and is being pain-managed through the season). I think the main reason Blair started with Harris last night was because of the problems both he and Harris caused Oldham in the 2nd half of the first tie. Look at the first 35mins or so last night, we were much the better side and IMHO Sturrock got the tactics absolutely right. Blame the mad Frenchman for our exit, not Luggy.
 
How can you come on here and say we ARE going to lose on Friday - call yourself a fan, not with comments like that you're not.

/QUOTE]

Obviously, I was under a massive misapprehension. So, you can only be considered a fan if you think the club you support is going to win every game and that you must have 100% blind loyalty in everything the club's Board and management says. Is this a football club or The Moonies?
 
"Considered Opinion" my arse. Although well done on managing to type all that whilst your limbs jerked so uncontrollably.

I don't think it's inevitable that we'll lose on friday, infact I have a sneaky feeling that, with all likelyhood Bilel being left out of the squad, the other players will respond by winning, and winning well.

As for your ******** ditch blair project, count me out. He cops abuse from morons all the time but keeps his head down and works hard, he's a good pro that Bilel could do well to learn from (ironic as it's often come across that Blair is Bilel's best mate at the club).
 
Obviously, I was under a massive misapprehension. So, you can only be considered a fan if you think the club you support is going to win every game and that you must have 100% blind loyalty in everything the club's Board and management says. Is this a football club or The Moonies?

If I were you I'd pipe down with the percentages, you're clearly not good at them.
 
I thought this was a joke post, that wasn't serious at all ..... just me then.
 
I agree time to either bring back Wignall or give the job to an up and coming black manager like John Barnes or Paul Ince.
 
There is an air of inevitability about defeat against Bradford on Friday evening, and when (not if) this occurs the time for big decisions will have been reached. That will be six games without a win, and, at least 12 without a good performance. For a team that was top of the league, two games from Wembley and one from a 3rd round trip to Anfield this is simply not good enough. The manager seems to admit to selection mistakes every time he goes on BBC Essex post-match. Some may call this honesty but I call it fundamental mismanagement. Mismanagement which the Board (i.e. Brady and Martin) should seek to thrust aside, otherwise mid-table mediocrity will be the outcome. It is too late to make such decisions when Southend United drop out of, not only the promotion places, but the top seven, probably on current form by the end of January. Too late to take such decisions after the transfer window has slammed shut leaving any new incumbent with inadequate players for the job in hand.

So the manager led the team to a 17 game unbeaten run. An unbeaten run of a flat-track bully where good performances in the first few of those games were followed by poor performances where the team was inter alia outclassed by Oxford yet sneaked a win thanks to the individual brilliance of a player deemed not good enough to play in a game which could have meant £200k to a cash-strapped club; had a 1-0 victory against the same team who had a comedy stand-in goalkeeper for around 75 minutes of the match; and a 3-2 win against little more than a Conference club shorn of all confidence from a winless streak of mammoth proportions. The defeats in the league this season have all come against teams in the top 6 – proving the flat-track bully analogy. For as soon as the team has come against better quality opposition it has crumbled. Some will say that a 3-0 victory over Shrewsbury Town was amongst the wins. Indeed it was, but with two goals in injury time, after the Shrews had clattered the bar five minutes from the end.

Then there is the situation regarding the manager’s son. A player, let us not forget, grasped from the nettle of the Conference South; a player who has played around 90% of his league career under his father’s care. Ergo, a player deemed not good enough by the manager’s peers. Yet good enough to play for Southend United ahead of the club’s two leading scorers in the game against Oldham. The #ditchblairproject needs to gather momentum, but will not until his father is replaced. I don’t care that he holds the ball up well, there are plenty of players out there that can do that equally as well and better, and add far, far more than a player of his very limited ability.

The players have clearly scapegoated and victimised Bilel Mohsni following his two yellow cards last night. The lead seems to have been taken by the manager from his interview post-match. I can only assume Gael Clichy suffered equal torment at the hands of the Manchester City players on Monday night for his sending-off which saw them lose their unbeaten record. The players clearly lack class off the pitch (and some on it too), and for the likes of Gilbert to slate Bilel is sickening. For Bilel to be made the scapegoat for losing the club £200k is a disgrace. The buck stops with the manager in normal circumstances. He picked that team that most knew would not be capable of beating Oldham – a team which did not include the three leading scorers at the club so that they could make way for the aforementioned anti-striker. One man should be jettisoned, and that is not Bilel. “Oh! He’s had too many chances and let us down”, will be the cry. How many times did the much-vaunted (but totally limited) Roy McDonough get sent off? Was it ever said he should be kicked out of the club? It smacks of something more sinister to me. In any normal workplace such victimisation would be seen as bullying, and subject to disciplinary procedures. I’m not surprised that as one against 20 or so, Bilel feels the need to react. After all, isn’t it a reaction that bullies wish to see?

Losses breed losses I’m afraid and the fact that the manager (or someone close to him) comes on here to communicate with the fans should not paper over the crevices that are forming. The purpose of this season is to get out of this league and this manager is NOT fit for that purpose. The time to act is after Friday’s defeat. I can only hope that Brady and Martin will realise that. However, given the history of standing back and seeing what will happen amongst this Board, previous Board’s, and seemingly a majority of the fans I will not be holding my breath.

Over a long period of time, CCCsiders has more than demonstrated his calibre as a poster, and it's important to remember that everyone who posts on ShrimperZone has the right to their opinion. While I think his logic is full of holes, He has presented his opinion in a thought-out and considered way and people should do well to remember that.

I personally think he is absolutely and entirely wrong on so many levels but, guys, this board is about opinions. If you have issues with the post (which I'm sure many will), please play the ball not the man. The points made, for me, are fairly easy to refute.

For instance:

1) Flat track bully: You don't need to beat the top teams or outclass anyone in the League. You need to finish the season with a points tally good enough to get you out of the division.
2) Inevitability of defeat on Friday: No basis for this whatsoever. We've lost away to a top 3 side and been narrowly beaten by a team in the next division up, having dominated the exchange until going down to ten men.
3) Sturrock's post match admissions: Managers are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If Sturrock chooses to take the heat off the players by admitting his mistakes, then I'll take the honesty every day rather than hang him on his words. As we sit second in the table and 11 points clear of the final play-off position, I'd say he's earned the right to retain our respect.
4) "So the manager led us to an unbeaten run of 17". Yep, what else have those pesky Romans ever done for us?
5) "The defeats in the league this season have all come against teams in the top 6". Behave sir, we've only lost 4 games and 3 of those were away. How many away games in the top 6 are we supposed to/expected to be winning? That's a pretty harsh benchmark for ANY manager.
6) "The buck stops with the manager in normal circumstances. He picked that team that most knew would not be capable of beating Oldham". Not me. I didn't know that. When the keeper made saves to deny our 11 man team, I didn't know that. When we lost by just 1 goal with ten men, I still didn't know it. I'm not sure "most people" would know it either.
7) "The players have clearly scapegoated and victimised Bilel Mohsni". The players who are closest to the situation shouldn't scapegoat Mohshi, but WE should scapegoat the manager who has taken us to the top of the table and seemingly turned the club around?
8) "The situation regarding the manager’s son". I see The Beard has already shot that one down in flames.

Apart from that, the post was spot on!
 
The players have clearly scapegoated and victimised Bilel Mohsni following his two yellow cards last night. The lead seems to have been taken by the manager from his interview post-match. I can only assume Gael Clichy suffered equal torment at the hands of the Manchester City players on Monday night for his sending-off which saw them lose their unbeaten record. The players clearly lack class off the pitch (and some on it too), and for the likes of Gilbert to slate Bilel is sickening. For Bilel to be made the scapegoat for losing the club £200k is a disgrace. The buck stops with the manager in normal circumstances. He picked that team that most knew would not be capable of beating Oldham – a team which did not include the three leading scorers at the club so that they could make way for the aforementioned anti-striker. One man should be jettisoned, and that is not Bilel. “Oh! He’s had too many chances and let us down”, will be the cry. How many times did the much-vaunted (but totally limited) Roy McDonough get sent off? Was it ever said he should be kicked out of the club? It smacks of something more sinister to me. In any normal workplace such victimisation would be seen as bullying, and subject to disciplinary procedures. I’m not surprised that as one against 20 or so, Bilel feels the need to react. After all, isn’t it a reaction that bullies wish to see?

Well, I can't say that I agree with most of your article but I do agree with some of the above .......... poor old Jesus. But let us remember that scapegoats (and scapegoating) are very important part of the human social set-up.
 
There is an air of inevitability about defeat against Bradford on Friday evening, and when (not if) this occurs the time for big decisions will have been reached. That will be six games without a win, and, at least 12 without a good performance. For a team that was top of the league, two games from Wembley and one from a 3rd round trip to Anfield this is simply not good enough. The manager seems to admit to selection mistakes every time he goes on BBC Essex post-match. Some may call this honesty but I call it fundamental mismanagement. Mismanagement which the Board (i.e. Brady and Martin) should seek to thrust aside, otherwise mid-table mediocrity will be the outcome. It is too late to make such decisions when Southend United drop out of, not only the promotion places, but the top seven, probably on current form by the end of January. Too late to take such decisions after the transfer window has slammed shut leaving any new incumbent with inadequate players for the job in hand.

So the manager led the team to a 17 game unbeaten run. An unbeaten run of a flat-track bully where good performances in the first few of those games were followed by poor performances where the team was inter alia outclassed by Oxford yet sneaked a win thanks to the individual brilliance of a player deemed not good enough to play in a game which could have meant £200k to a cash-strapped club; had a 1-0 victory against the same team who had a comedy stand-in goalkeeper for around 75 minutes of the match; and a 3-2 win against little more than a Conference club shorn of all confidence from a winless streak of mammoth proportions. The defeats in the league this season have all come against teams in the top 6 – proving the flat-track bully analogy. For as soon as the team has come against better quality opposition it has crumbled. Some will say that a 3-0 victory over Shrewsbury Town was amongst the wins. Indeed it was, but with two goals in injury time, after the Shrews had clattered the bar five minutes from the end.

Then there is the situation regarding the manager’s son. A player, let us not forget, grasped from the nettle of the Conference South; a player who has played around 90% of his league career under his father’s care. Ergo, a player deemed not good enough by the manager’s peers. Yet good enough to play for Southend United ahead of the club’s two leading scorers in the game against Oldham. The #ditchblairproject needs to gather momentum, but will not until his father is replaced. I don’t care that he holds the ball up well, there are plenty of players out there that can do that equally as well and better, and add far, far more than a player of his very limited ability.

The players have clearly scapegoated and victimised Bilel Mohsni following his two yellow cards last night. The lead seems to have been taken by the manager from his interview post-match. I can only assume Gael Clichy suffered equal torment at the hands of the Manchester City players on Monday night for his sending-off which saw them lose their unbeaten record. The players clearly lack class off the pitch (and some on it too), and for the likes of Gilbert to slate Bilel is sickening. For Bilel to be made the scapegoat for losing the club £200k is a disgrace. The buck stops with the manager in normal circumstances. He picked that team that most knew would not be capable of beating Oldham – a team which did not include the three leading scorers at the club so that they could make way for the aforementioned anti-striker. One man should be jettisoned, and that is not Bilel. “Oh! He’s had too many chances and let us down”, will be the cry. How many times did the much-vaunted (but totally limited) Roy McDonough get sent off? Was it ever said he should be kicked out of the club? It smacks of something more sinister to me. In any normal workplace such victimisation would be seen as bullying, and subject to disciplinary procedures. I’m not surprised that as one against 20 or so, Bilel feels the need to react. After all, isn’t it a reaction that bullies wish to see?

Losses breed losses I’m afraid and the fact that the manager (or someone close to him) comes on here to communicate with the fans should not paper over the crevices that are forming. The purpose of this season is to get out of this league and this manager is NOT fit for that purpose. The time to act is after Friday’s defeat. I can only hope that Brady and Martin will realise that. However, given the history of standing back and seeing what will happen amongst this Board, previous Board’s, and seemingly a majority of the fans I will not be holding my breath.


Ok, this is a 'considered opinion'. But the point is, is that it's your considered opinion. My considered opinion is that most Shrimpers will think you're talking *rap.
 
There is an air of inevitability about defeat against Bradford on Friday evening, and when (not if) this occurs the time for big decisions will have been reached. That will be six games without a win, and, at least 12 without a good performance. For a team that was top of the league, two games from Wembley and one from a 3rd round trip to Anfield this is simply not good enough. The manager seems to admit to selection mistakes every time he goes on BBC Essex post-match. Some may call this honesty but I call it fundamental mismanagement. Mismanagement which the Board (i.e. Brady and Martin) should seek to thrust aside, otherwise mid-table mediocrity will be the outcome. It is too late to make such decisions when Southend United drop out of, not only the promotion places, but the top seven, probably on current form by the end of January. Too late to take such decisions after the transfer window has slammed shut leaving any new incumbent with inadequate players for the job in hand.

So the manager led the team to a 17 game unbeaten run. An unbeaten run of a flat-track bully where good performances in the first few of those games were followed by poor performances where the team was inter alia outclassed by Oxford yet sneaked a win thanks to the individual brilliance of a player deemed not good enough to play in a game which could have meant £200k to a cash-strapped club; had a 1-0 victory against the same team who had a comedy stand-in goalkeeper for around 75 minutes of the match; and a 3-2 win against little more than a Conference club shorn of all confidence from a winless streak of mammoth proportions. The defeats in the league this season have all come against teams in the top 6 – proving the flat-track bully analogy. For as soon as the team has come against better quality opposition it has crumbled. Some will say that a 3-0 victory over Shrewsbury Town was amongst the wins. Indeed it was, but with two goals in injury time, after the Shrews had clattered the bar five minutes from the end.

Then there is the situation regarding the manager’s son. A player, let us not forget, grasped from the nettle of the Conference South; a player who has played around 90% of his league career under his father’s care. Ergo, a player deemed not good enough by the manager’s peers. Yet good enough to play for Southend United ahead of the club’s two leading scorers in the game against Oldham. The #ditchblairproject needs to gather momentum, but will not until his father is replaced. I don’t care that he holds the ball up well, there are plenty of players out there that can do that equally as well and better, and add far, far more than a player of his very limited ability.

The players have clearly scapegoated and victimised Bilel Mohsni following his two yellow cards last night. The lead seems to have been taken by the manager from his interview post-match. I can only assume Gael Clichy suffered equal torment at the hands of the Manchester City players on Monday night for his sending-off which saw them lose their unbeaten record. The players clearly lack class off the pitch (and some on it too), and for the likes of Gilbert to slate Bilel is sickening. For Bilel to be made the scapegoat for losing the club £200k is a disgrace. The buck stops with the manager in normal circumstances. He picked that team that most knew would not be capable of beating Oldham – a team which did not include the three leading scorers at the club so that they could make way for the aforementioned anti-striker. One man should be jettisoned, and that is not Bilel. “Oh! He’s had too many chances and let us down”, will be the cry. How many times did the much-vaunted (but totally limited) Roy McDonough get sent off? Was it ever said he should be kicked out of the club? It smacks of something more sinister to me. In any normal workplace such victimisation would be seen as bullying, and subject to disciplinary procedures. I’m not surprised that as one against 20 or so, Bilel feels the need to react. After all, isn’t it a reaction that bullies wish to see?

Losses breed losses I’m afraid and the fact that the manager (or someone close to him) comes on here to communicate with the fans should not paper over the crevices that are forming. The purpose of this season is to get out of this league and this manager is NOT fit for that purpose. The time to act is after Friday’s defeat. I can only hope that Brady and Martin will realise that. However, given the history of standing back and seeing what will happen amongst this Board, previous Board’s, and seemingly a majority of the fans I will not be holding my breath.


I thought the away win against high flying (at the time) Rotherham was a good performance especially as our oft quoted only match winner wasn't playing.
 
We do not need to win this league, just finish 3rd. We are still 5 points off of 4th place.

Losing to one of the top teams in the league away is hardly a disaster, nor is losing to Oldham who are in the leage above us.

If we see a downturn in form that sees us fall out of the top 3 thats something to be worried about, but we were never going to go unbeaten for the rest of the season.

To suggest the board should be taking action when we have just gone 17 games unbeaten is totally ridiculous.
 
We do not need to win this league, just finish 3rd. We are still 5 points off of 4th place.

Losing to one of the top teams in the league away is hardly a disaster, nor is losing to Oldham who are in the leage above us.

If we see a downturn in form that sees us fall out of the top 3 thats something to be worried about, but we were never going to go unbeaten for the rest of the season.

To suggest the board should be taking action when we have just gone 17 games unbeaten is totally ridiculous.

It's the five without a win that is the concern - and the poor performances that preceded that. Defeat on Friday - a real possibility - should not go unnoticed. There are two difficult away games following that and we could be in for a serious slide. Action is better taken earlier.
 
There is an air of inevitability about defeat against Bradford on Friday evening, and when (not if) this occurs the time for big decisions will have been reached.

Defeat on Friday - a real possibility -

So now it's only a possibillity, not a certainty?
 
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