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McNasty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
16,197
Location
Otley, West Yorks
Talking to people who seem to have a bit of knowledge on the subject it appears that

1) People have been using their season cards when they have stopped the payments at their banks.

2) People have been using child and student tickets when they have no right to do so.

3) Been given adult tickets at the West Stand ticket office instead of children's tickets.


The club have been losing massive amounts of money in the case of 1 & 2 and the monies received cannot possibly tally with tickets sold with 3.

Surely un-paid season cards can be blocked until paid for, or at least people would have to pay for the games they watch by buying match-day tickets.
Greater control on concessions and stricter entry supervision would soon stop cheap tickets being sold to the wrong people.

It wouldn't take long for these issues to be corrected and the club's income to rise.

In the case of 3) it would help if there were sufficient tickets of both adult and child available on match-day as I am led to believe a staff member was seen taking cash to let people into the ground when ticketing problems held up entry --- highly un-professional and a dubious practice.

Anything to run the club in a more efficient way would surely benefit the financial side of the club.
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
48,092
Location
Benfleet
I think you can add using car park facilities at certain of the "season" type parking venues when they haven't paid up to date on them too Ken. You would have thought it was relatively easy to have an automated ticketing system that "bars" tickets if they have gone into arrears but we all know from the debcle at the start of the season with nothing working how easy it is for a system to become overrun and it to be far easier for attendants to wave people through that are proferring what appear to be valid tickets.
 

Mick

Life President
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,141
Talking to people who seem to have a bit of knowledge on the subject it appears that

1) People have been using their season cards when they have stopped the payments at their banks.

2) People have been using child and student tickets when they have no right to do so.

3) Been given adult tickets at the West Stand ticket office instead of children's tickets.


The club have been losing massive amounts of money in the case of 1 & 2 and the monies received cannot possibly tally with tickets sold with 3.

Surely un-paid season cards can be blocked until paid for, or at least people would have to pay for the games they watch by buying match-day tickets.
Greater control on concessions and stricter entry supervision would soon stop cheap tickets being sold to the wrong people.

It wouldn't take long for these issues to be corrected and the club's income to rise.

In the case of 3) it would help if there were sufficient tickets of both adult and child available on match-day as I am led to believe a staff member was seen taking cash to let people into the ground when ticketing problems held up entry --- highly un-professional and a dubious practice.

Anything to run the club in a more efficient way would surely benefit the financial side of the club.

You are assuming that a) we have a fit for purpose ticketing system and b) we have an adequately managed ticketing operation.

I'm not convinced either is the case.

As for income rising you are also assuming that those who are prepared to pay child/student rates would continue to come if faced with full charges.

Certainly allowing non-paid for season tickets to grant admission is amateurish beyond belief. Partly the price to be paid for getting rid of staff who can do the job, but cost money?
 

McNasty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
16,197
Location
Otley, West Yorks
You are assuming that a) we have a fit for purpose ticketing system and b) we have an adequately managed ticketing operation.

I'm not convinced either is the case.

As for income rising you are also assuming that those who are prepared to pay child/student rates would continue to come if faced with full charges.

Certainly allowing non-paid for season tickets to grant admission is amateurish beyond belief. Partly the price to be paid for getting rid of staff who can do the job, but cost money?

Mick, I am sure the systems are in place but it is the operators who need training, how hard is it to ask for proof on purchase and strict match-day gate supervision ?

Your comment regarding people still attending when asked to pay full price is a hard one to answer, but I have heard some die-hard, attend most games fans have used child tickets without being challenged and I am sure the lure of the mighty Shrimpers would be too much for most fans to stop coming.

How hard can it be to block un-paid season cards ? It would need vigilant gatemen to remove the blocked cards from the fan on match day and the fan to pay for the last few home games by buying tickets. If they stopped coming we would not lose out as they had been getting in for nothing anyway.
 

ms brush

Saga Lout
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,060
Theoretically, the software that works with the season cards and the turnstiles should have automated algorythms built in that identify non-payments as a starter for ten. Less simple to automatically verify that "student" and "child" tickets are used by people who shouldnt use them, and almost impossible to automatically ensure the right tickets are issued / used...

Given than the kit, software and cards used to operate the "system" of entry to games will have a minimum 6 figure outlay over a 3 year period, it makes me wonder where the cost / benefit is if we are losing money through poor administration and monitoring?? I would question whether the current system is cheaper and / or gives better value than the old voucher / ticket and man on turnstile combination... I would hazard a guess that over a 3 year period it doesnt!!
 

McNasty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
16,197
Location
Otley, West Yorks
Theoretically, the software that works with the season cards and the turnstiles should have automated algorythms built in that identify non-payments as a starter for ten. Less simple to automatically verify that "student" and "child" tickets are used by people who shouldnt use them, and almost impossible to automatically ensure the right tickets are issued / used...

Given than the kit, software and cards used to operate the "system" of entry to games will have a minimum 6 figure outlay over a 3 year period, it makes me wonder where the cost / benefit is if we are losing money through poor administration and monitoring?? I would question whether the current system is cheaper and / or gives better value than the old voucher / ticket and man on turnstile combination... I would hazard a guess that over a 3 year period it doesnt!!

I am sure there is no built-in system to flash up un-paid seasos at the turnstile.

I was under the impression that concession tickets flash red when used at the turnstile making it obvious to the stewards supervising entry but I could be wrong.
 

Somerset Ex-TTB

Members
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
4,345
Location
Yeovil
Nothing is going to happen, as it needs a level of staffing, having been well trained, with a system and software in place to implement. All of which RM will not be able to willing to pay for in the current circumstances.

Another case of the club being very poorly run contributing to the horrendous losses the club makes when plenty of other league 2 clubs survive with significantly less income.
 

southchurchblue

Schoolboy
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
90
I have too say when i was at the Barnet&Shrewsbury matches the other week I was annoyed that people sitting in front and behind us were openly addmitting that they had bought child tickets and some were sitting in the front rows of the family enclosure,they are cheating the club out of revenue which we need in the present climate.
Perhaps the club is too blame for not having the right staff to check this sort of practice and I know people are facing harsh choices these days but the club needs every penny it can get
 

weststander

Manager
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
1,342
I had the non payment problem myself, i renewed at the earliest opportunity last year i think it was in March and the club said that my d/d would stay in place from last season. Anyway come september when they still hadnt taken a payment i got a little worried and phones the club who didnt seem that worried about it and said theyd sort it. Anyway October and November passed without them taking a payment so I actually went into the ticket office and gave them the cash there and then, they seemed more than a little suprised at my honesty....
 

McNasty

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
16,197
Location
Otley, West Yorks
I had the non payment problem myself, i renewed at the earliest opportunity last year i think it was in March and the club said that my d/d would stay in place from last season. Anyway come september when they still hadnt taken a payment i got a little worried and phones the club who didnt seem that worried about it and said theyd sort it. Anyway October and November passed without them taking a payment so I actually went into the ticket office and gave them the cash there and then, they seemed more than a little suprised at my honesty....

I was referring more to the people who cancelled their direct debit for whatever reason and have never re-started the payments, however your point is very valid if monies were never taken from the bank account as I am sure everyone would realise payments hadn't been made for their season card.
 

Mick

Life President
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,141
I am sure there is no built-in system to flash up un-paid seasos at the turnstile.

I was under the impression that concession tickets flash red when used at the turnstile making it obvious to the stewards supervising entry but I could be wrong.

You are correct. I now qualify for concessions and my tickets light both green and red light. Never noticed anyone looking at it though.
 

Mick

Life President
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,141
Mick, I am sure the systems are in place but it is the operators who need training, how hard is it to ask for proof on purchase and strict match-day gate supervision ?

How hard can it be to block un-paid season cards ? It would need vigilant gatemen to remove the blocked cards from the fan on match day and the fan to pay for the last few home games by buying tickets. If they stopped coming we would not lose out as they had been getting in for nothing anyway.

How hard is it to block un-paid season cards ? Depends on the system and the people. It should be very simple. If the cards don't work there's no need to worry about removing them from the holder.

Asking for proof of purchase on match days would probably cause unacceptable delays with a couple of hundred going through some turnstiles in a fairly short space of time. Our ticketing has been shambolic for a while now and this is just another symptom of a poorly managed operation.
 

VIP_BLUE

First XI
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
288
Sounds like some good bits of initiative being administered... Good effort lads...
 

Cockle43

Manager⭐
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
1,181
Location
(Was) Back home on the North Bank now back in W.
They do seem to be sort of trying now. Last week I was asked whether I had student ID for my son's student ticket when I went to buy it, the problem was that I didn't have access to it because he was at college and needs the card to get into college so if it was required to produce the ID at point of sale for advance tickets I/he could never buy an advance ticket and would be stuck with having to buy a dearer ticket on the day. The only way to go is to issue the correct type of ticket to match the fee paid and for it to be policed correctly at the turnstile.

I really do question whether the current system is actually better than the old man on a turnstile method but unfortunately that only works with unallocated/reserved terraces/seating so we will be stuck with some form of automated system but it needs to be operated correctly and as someone pointed out that requires competent staff.
 

philtalkin

Manager
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
1,054
My friend has got in on Childs ticket at West Ham for a number of years. Probably happens at every club, however can't believe they would still get in if they cancelled the direct debit on their season cards.
 
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