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Memory Lane All-Time Draft: Semi-Final 1 (Poll added)

Who would win out of Team A and Team B?

  • Team A

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Team B

    Votes: 17 81.0%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

Yorkshire Blue

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Team A

Manager: David Webb

............................................. Billy Moore
Tony Bentley....Spencer Prior.... Paul Clark..... Jimmy Evans
........ Jimmy McAlinden....Keith Jones....Dru Yearwood
.............Harold Halse.... Roy Hollis.... Jimmy Shankly


Team B:

Manager: Eddie Perry

.........................................Harry Threadgold
Micky Stead... Shane Westley... Jimmy Stirling... Chris Powell
....... Ryan Leonard..... Glenn Pennyfather... Peter Taylor
.................Billy Best..... David Crown.....Richard Cadette

Team A v Team B
Number of starts: 2285 v 2419
Number of goals: 370 v 353
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The top two scoring teams are pitted together in the first semi-final and I'm relieved to say my boys edge that with 370 goals to 353.

I see Team A having a clear edge in midfield. It's the best passing team in the draft and with Team B being unbalanced with their three man midfielder containing an out and out winger, Team A should dominate in the centre of the park and create plenty of chances for my talented front line.

Harold Halse was Southend's first great player. You may not be familiar with him, but he's someone who went from playing for Southend one season, to winning the League title with Man U the next season. He won the FA Cup with Man and Villa (and was runner-up with Chelsea as well - the first man to appear in a FA Cup final for three different teams). Alongside him Roy Hollis outscored Billy Best, whilst the prolific Jimmy Shankly notched a hundred goals for the club at a better rate than either. These three up against Shane Westley is just unfair.

Team B's forwards will create problems for most teams if given the service but fortunately I have a defence marshalled by the Viking and Spinner, two local lads and Southend Hall of Famers who won 8(?) promotions for Southend between them either side of careers that took them to the top flight. These will keep these forwards quiet, especially when denied service from an overrun midfield and lacking their usual big man strike partner (Best was at his, er, best playing alongside a Moore/Garner; similarly Crown and Cadette needed a McDonough). And even if they get past them in goal I have Billy Moore who played over 300 times for us. His heroics in goal in the 1930s made him my grandfather's all-time favourite player.

And if that wasn't enough I have the clear advantage with the choice of managers. Webb managed what Eddie Perry never did and got Southend promoted to the second tier, not only that he got us there and established us there, beatng Newcastle 4-0 to go top of the table 1st January (midfielder Keith Jones scoring in that game).

David Webb's yellow army all the way in this tie.
 
An interesting tie... a decision not made easy by both teams having a fair few players that I have never seen!

A match up however is made more easy by both sides playing a 4-3-3 format, so we can almost do a "Top Trumps" style contest.

I have never seen either goalkeeper, but Threadgold is the one who generally gets the most plaudits I think... however, let's say there is no winner here.

Bentley was a better right back than Stead but SCP is obviously way ahead of Evans. Still level.

Prior v Westley and Clark v Stirling both come out in favour of Team A for me.

Leonard and Taylor come out on top against McAlinden and Yearwood, the latter being a surprise inclusion into the all time draft. No doubting his potential for sure, but he's not exactly setting the season alight and in the last few games has been absolutely awful. So whilst Yorkie says midfield is key, he is correct but in the other teams favour. But team A still lead 4-3.

Onto the strikers - in my opinion take your pick as to who you want to match against who... but all the winners will be from team B. Best, Crown and Cadette are three of the biggest crowd favourites and most prolific goalscorers in our history. Hollis is the record goalscorer in a time when players didn't chop and change clubs but it's recognised he probably wasn't that great a player or even that popular - surprising given the goals he was banging in. Halse was from a very early era and Shankly would I think be comfortably 6th place if you had to list those strikers in order.

This makes it 6-4 to team B.

Dave Webb gets the managerial plaudits to make it 6-5 but even if the keeper's decision comes down in favour of Team A it's still only a draw, and I do favour Threadgold slightly which will mean 7-5.

I'm leaning towards Team B here.
 
What, apart from the bit where Leonard and Taylor come out on top against McAlinden and Yearwood?
Pennyfather then, I knew you'd missed one of them out! I make you right though, Yearwood is not anywhere near ready to challenge them
 
There is really no comparison in this round. Team B would walk this tie.

Team B would dominate midfield and attack - with a left hand side of full internationals laying chance after chance on a plate and three of the very best strikers Southend have ever had banging them in. Team A includes a goalkeeper, Billy Moore, who may have made many appearances but at a time when Southend were truly minnows. His standout game for Southend was an away fixture at Wembley Stadium against Clapton Orient - the game was moved due to unsafe pitch barriers at their normal ground - resulting in a 3-1 defeat to Clapton at a game attracting only 1,900 fans to Wembley, when Clapton had played Brentford there in the previous round in front of over 8,000 fans. It shows the minnow status of Southend in those days. If Clapton Orient put 3 past Moore, what would the combined talents of Billy Best, David Crown and Richard Cadette do? It could be a cricket score! By comparison, Threadgold kept goal at Anfield and at Roots Hall against Liverpool and kept a clean sheet at home and was part of an amazing draw away. Liverpool or Clapton Orient? I think its clear which one is stronger...

I would agree that Team A shades defensive strength, but they would be under constant pressure and would still not be a match for Team B's strikers and don't forget Team B's defence does include a full England international and overall they played 906 games for Southend in successful sides during each of the most successful periods in the clubs history - not the far distant past when Southend were barely known on the regional scene let alone nationally.

So, Team B are stronger in goal, stronger in midfield and far stronger in attack. They are also arguably as strong in defence, possibly with Team A shading that one but not by much.

This would be a rout and Team B, a team of successful winners in Southend shirts, would walk it.

Team B

Welshman Eddie Perry took the helm in 1956 in our second season at Roots Hall. I picked him as manager as the options I knew better had gone and his win ratio of 43.15 is bettered only by David Webb and Barry Fry, plus Steve Thompson's cameo and Mick Gooding's one game one win spell in caretaker charge. Perry remained in charge until 1960.

Perry had some good players in Division Three (League One in new money) and in his three full seasons in charge Blues were in the top ten each year. This represented a period of consistently lofty heights for a club that never made it to the second tier until David Webb took over. Southend were consistent under Perry but didn't quite have that bit extra that was needed to seriously challenge for promotion to Division Two for the first time in the club's history.

Eddie Perry's record:

1956-57 D3 South P46 W18 D12 L16 Pts48 Pos 7th
At this time it was 2 points for a win. In today's terms we would have 66 points. During this season, in the FA cup Southend won away at Colchester before a heroic 2-1 home victory over Liverpool, before going out to Brimingham City.

1957-58 D3 South P46 W21 D12 L13 Pts54 Pos 7th
With 3 points for a win, for comparison, Southend's final tally would have been 75 points. In the last season of regionalisation in Division 3, Southend finished only 6 points behind eventual champions Brighton. They also recorded another heroic FA cup performance against Liverpool - drawing 1-1 away and losing the replay 2-3 at Roots Hall.

1958-59 D3 P46 W21 D8 L17 Pts50 Pos 8th
In the first season that Southend played national League football, they finished a very creditable 8th in the new Division 3. With 3 points for a win they would have achieved 71 points. Eddie Perry was somewhat unlucky to be replaced at the end of the season.

Players

Harry Threadgold was a fans' favourite in his time at Roots Hall, playing 343 games between 1953 and 1963. He kept goal throughout Eddie Percy's managerial reign including those amazing results against Liverpool.

Chris Powell at left back needs no introduction - he played 248 games 1990-1996, scoring 3 goals before being signed by Derby County for £750,000 and going on to play in the Premier League and for the full England international team 5 times.

Micky Stead played 298 games for Southend 1978-85 scoring 4 goals before ex-Blues player Dave Cusack signed him for Doncaster Rovers. During this time he was part of the Southend team which were Division Four Champions 1980-81.

Shane Westley, a wholehearted giant of a defender and one of the best centre backs we've had, scored 10 goals in 144 appearances 1985-89 before being signed by Wolves for £150,000. He would later return on loan for a further 5 appearances. Westley twice won promotion from Division 4 with Southend.

Jimmy Stirling was a Scottish centre back who signed for Blues from Birmingham City in 1950 and went on to play 218 games scoring 2 goals - including participating in the FA cup games against Liverpool under Eddie Perry.

Peter 'Spud' Taylor also needs no introduction. A hard working Rochford-born winger and SUFC youth product with pace and an excellent cross on him, Spud played 75 games for Southend 1971-73, scoring 12 goals, before Malcolm Allison signed him for Crystal Palace for £110,000. In his first season at Southend the club were promoted from Division 4 as runners up. He went on to sign for Tottenham for £400,000 and play 4 times for the England full international side, scoring 2 goals for England. He would also go on to manage England U21s and the full national side.

Ryan Leonard is another who will be familiar to all but the most recent fans. The 6ft 1 tough tackling central midfielder made 228 appearances for Southend 2010-18, scoring 20 goals. He is only the second player in Southend's history to win Player of the Year 3 times. He also won Players Player of the Year and Goal of the Season awards. He signed for Sheffield United in January 2018 for an undisclosed fee (thought to be around £750,000).

Glenn Pennyfather was another SUFC youth product who made 238 appearances 1981-87 largely as a defensive midfielder, scoring a creditable 36 goals. He was signed by Crystal Palace in 1987 before going on to play for Ipswich and Bristol City.

Billy Best was a firm fans favourite, who played many of his 226 games 1968-73 in the forward line, scoring 106 goals - an average of almost a goal every 2 games. However, he also played in midfield and ended his career for Northampton Town playing in defence. Billy was the type of character every team needs - a John White type who would play anywhere he was needed. A true legend and one of the all time SUFC greats. He also played in the 1971 team with Peter Taylor, who were promoted from Division 4 as runners up.

David Crown was one of my first Southend heroes. The pacy forward played 113 games 1987-90 scoring 61 goals, so an average of more than a goal every 2 games.

Richard Cadette was another pacy forward who played 90 games 1985-87 for Southend, scoring an excellent 49 goals - like David Crown an average of more than a goal every 2 games. He was signed by Sheffield United in 1987 for a fee, set by tribunal, of £90,000.

So, in short I have a ton of goals throughout my team. I have:

  • height in midfield and centre back
  • A manager, goalkeeper and central defender who were all part of the mid-1950s team that beat Liverpool at Roots Hall and drew at Anfield
  • Two forwards who both scored more than a goal every 2 games
  • Wingers who both scored goals and created many goals for others, Billy Best almost scored a goal every 2 games too
  • Central midfielders who also chipped in with goals
  • The best left hand side of any Southend team in history bar none with two full England internationals.
Team B are clearly (and, arguably, by far) the stronger team here, no question about it.
 
An interesting tie... a decision not made easy by both teams having a fair few players that I have never seen!

A match up however is made more easy by both sides playing a 4-3-3 format, so we can almost do a "Top Trumps" style contest.

I have never seen either goalkeeper, but Threadgold is the one who generally gets the most plaudits I think... however, let's say there is no winner here.

Bentley was a better right back than Stead but SCP is obviously way ahead of Evans. Still level.

Prior v Westley and Clark v Stirling both come out in favour of Team A for me.

Leonard and Taylor come out on top against McAlinden and Yearwood, the latter being a surprise inclusion into the all time draft. No doubting his potential for sure, but he's not exactly setting the season alight and in the last few games has been absolutely awful. So whilst Yorkie says midfield is key, he is correct but in the other teams favour. But team A still lead 4-3.

Onto the strikers - in my opinion take your pick as to who you want to match against who... but all the winners will be from team B. Best, Crown and Cadette are three of the biggest crowd favourites and most prolific goalscorers in our history. Hollis is the record goalscorer in a time when players didn't chop and change clubs but it's recognised he probably wasn't that great a player or even that popular - surprising given the goals he was banging in. Halse was from a very early era and Shankly would I think be comfortably 6th place if you had to list those strikers in order.

This makes it 6-4 to team B.

Dave Webb gets the managerial plaudits to make it 6-5 but even if the keeper's decision comes down in favour of Team A it's still only a draw, and I do favour Threadgold slightly which will mean 7-5.

I'm leaning towards Team B here.

Best, Crown and Cadette were prolific. But not as prolific as my front three who outscored them both in total goals and goals per game.

Halse is the only one of the six forwards who played for England. Objectively he is the best of the six and has the medals to prove it. Shankly scored 2 goals every 3 games, way more than Best, Crown or Cadette. How is he comfortably 6th? And we need to consider balance of Team B: all 3 needed a big man alongside them.

Similarly in midfield Spud is out of position in a midfield 3 or Lenny and Pennyfather are outnumbered in a midfield two. Yearwood may be raw, but so was Spud when he played for us. We shouldn't just think of the last two performances by a half-fit Dru but when he had the Sunderland fans drooling over him, or when he ran the midfield as a 17 year old. He's had more good performances than bad. He's had more exceptional performances than bad.

My grandfather, who saw both Moore and Threadgold, picked the acrobatic Moore. And remember Blind Harry couldn't play under floodlights. Given that it's December and the floodlights will be on for the second half at least, that is a significant advantage to Team A!
 
IT's also worth noting that Billy Moore, at 5' 9", was very short for a goalkeeper. He'd be mullered from set pieces by Team B.

'Blind Harry' managed to keep goal perfectly successfully against Liverpool under floodlights. Perhaps he wasn't so blind after all!
 
IT's also worth noting that Billy Moore, at 5' 9", was very short for a goalkeeper. He'd be mullered from set pieces by Team B.

'Blind Harry' managed to keep goal perfectly successfully against Liverpool under floodlights. Perhaps he wasn't so blind after all!

Harry worked for my Dad's company after retiring, and my wife looked after him in the hospice. With the greatest of respect, he was just OK as a goalkeeper according to my uncle.
 
IT's also worth noting that Billy Moore, at 5' 9", was very short for a goalkeeper. He'd be mullered from set pieces by Team B.

Not with Spinner in front of him he wouldn't. Look how Spinner kept Rooney and Ronaldo 25 yards away from Flahavan.
 
My grandfather, who saw both Moore and Threadgold, picked the acrobatic Moore. And remember Blind Harry couldn't play under floodlights. Given that it's December and the floodlights will be on for the second half at least, that is a significant advantage to Team A!

How on earth a keeper with a nickname of "Blind Harry" makes the all time draft I'm not sure...
 
How on earth a keeper with a nickname of "Blind Harry" makes the all time draft I'm not sure...

I'd suggest that someone who was a fans favourite for 10 years (despite what the chairman of Team A would have you believe) was clearly not blind. He also wasn't a midget and nor did he spend his time playing pub teams!
 
I'd suggest that someone who was a fans favourite for 10 years (despite what the chairman of Team A would have you believe) was clearly not blind. He also wasn't a midget and nor did he spend his time playing pub teams!

Eh? Billy Moore played for us in Division 3 South. The "pub teams" he played against were the likes of Norwich, Crystal Palace, Watford, Luton, Brighton, Swindon, Brentford etc

Harry Threadgold was famously blind under floodlights. He ended up retiring because of it.

Blind Harry also holds an unwanted Football League record of conceding the header from furthest out. Villa's Peter Aldis was the scorer, beating Threadgold with a header from 35 yards for the only goal of his career. Undoubtedly brave he wasn't the best.

Billy Moore on the other hand is described on the official website as one of the club's best players of the 1930s.

Also look out for the description of Jimmy Mac in the 1950s:

Official Site said:
Warren had pulled off a masterstroke that season though, signing Irish midfield maestro Jimmy McAlinden who was to prove to be the fulcrum of the team for several seasons. The following campaign with “Jimmy Mac” in imperious form saw the Shrimpers challenging for promotion all season.

Jimmy Mac's regarded as being possibly the best player ever to play for the club.
And in 2014 he was voted Southend's greatest ever captain ahead of Maher, Moody and his teammate in this side Tony Bentley - an amazing accolade considering he played 60 years previously.
 
Interesting analysis @fbm no mention of Spud in there though.

He mentions Spud, who he forgets to mention is Keith Jones, the fulcrum of two Southend teams that pushed for promotion to the premier league in 91/92 (remember topping the league New Year's Day) and then Fry's team which fell apart after Judas did the dirty on us.

Jones was absolute quality for us (and later Charlton who he got promoted to the Prem).
 
Eh? Billy Moore played for us in Division 3 South. The "pub teams" he played against were the likes of Norwich, Crystal Palace, Watford, Luton, Brighton, Swindon, Brentford etc

Harry Threadgold was famously blind under floodlights. He ended up retiring because of it.

Blind Harry also holds an unwanted Football League record of conceding the header from furthest out. Villa's Peter Aldis was the scorer, beating Threadgold with a header from 35 yards for the only goal of his career. Undoubtedly brave he wasn't the best.

Billy Moore on the other hand is described on the official website as one of the club's best players of the 1930s.

Also look out for the description of Jimmy Mac in the 1950s:



Jimmy Mac's regarded as being possibly the best player ever to play for the club.
And in 2014 he was voted Southend's greatest ever captain ahead of Maher, Moody and his teammate in this side Tony Bentley - an amazing accolade considering he played 60 years previously.

Yes all very well @Yorkshire Blue but you don’t mention that Harry played a full season as first choice keeper for Sunderland before that header incident. One of which doesn’t make him a bad keeper - David Backham scored from his own half v David Sullivan and who can forget David Seaman letting in ‘that’ goal v Brazil in WC2002 - are they both rubbish keepers as a result? Of course they’re not.

Further, due to his boxing prowess too Harry had taken a few knocks - in addition to having served in the Second World War as a Royal Marine is it surprising he went on to have a few niggles right at the end of his career? Floodlights were installed at Roots Hall towards the end of his career in 1959 - when Harry was already almost 36.

Then, there is the time he carried on playing after having suffered a horrendous back injury during a game! Is it any wonder his ashes are scattered at Roots Hall? And you want to besmirch his legacy by insinuating that he wasn’t very good, wasn’t much admired by the fans and was blind. For shame.

For anyone interested in a slightly less one-eyed view of Harry Threadgold - here is a much more fair assessment.
 
Yes all very well @Yorkshire Blue but you don’t mention that Harry played a full season as first choice keeper for Sunderland before that header incident. One of which doesn’t make him a bad keeper - David Backham scored from his own half v David Sullivan and who can forget David Seaman letting in ‘that’ goal v Brazil in WC2002 - are they both rubbish keepers as a result? Of course they’re not.

For anyone interested in a slightly less one-eyed view of Harry Threadgold - here is a much more fair assessment.

Yes, I linked to that article. It includes the quote "he wasn't the best".

As for being one-eyed, in the kingdom of the blind (under floodlights) the one-eyed man is king:Winking:
 
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