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Question "...and Macca takes a tumble"

South Bank Hank

ūüĎć‚≠ź
Joined
Nov 4, 2003
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Given that UEFA have now charged Eduardo with diving to win a penalty in the Champions League against Celtic, I wondered what everyone's personal barometer was for what's acceptable and what isn't with respect to conning the referee WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR OWN TEAM.

I'll be honest and say it's something I struggle with.

One of the funniest moments I've witnessed in football came several years ago when Nathan Jones won a penalty at the Hall with one of the most outrageous dives I've ever seen. So blatant was the offence, I think Skippy almost put his two hands together before bending the knees and launching himself into the air. I genuinely could not believe it when the ref awarded the kick.

That said, I also remember how much I cheered the decision and how much I savoured the goal that followed. I might only have been happier if said goal had come against Col U or Orient.

If I'm honest, I have completely double standards on this - maybe even triple! The more and more I see "simulation" in football now, the more I see the need to stamp it out. I'd love to see players punished retrospectively on video evidence when they've blatantly set out to con the officials, competition, clubs and fans. And I'm glad it's not a tactic Southend seem to employ week-in week-out as we try to win at all costs.

BUT then I think back to our last home game against Millwall when Macca tried it on with an effort Nathan Jones would have been proud of, flicking his leg out to catch the defender and then hitting the floor like the proverbial spud sack. The ref didn't give us the decision of course, but I'm sitting here now happily watching UEFA take action against diving while wishing at the same time Macca's dive had been a little "better"...
 

MK Shrimper

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
52,329
Hate to say it but the old Corinthians spirit has long died a death, even if it ever really existed.

Would I celebrate a goal scored by a dubious penalty decision? Yes.

Would I be furious if another team conned the ref into giving one against us? Yes.

Therefore if it's your team that benefits then people are kidding themselves that they'd be outraged.
 

Matt the Shrimp

aka Harry Potter
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Whisper it quietly, but I thought that Nicky "Tango" Nicolau went down awfully easily in the second leg of our League Two play-off semi-final against Northampton Town.

Given that we won the semi-final 1-0 on aggregate - and went on to get promoted - you have to say that if it was a tumble, it was a pretty darn significant one.

Matt
 

BILLERICAY BLUE

RoseTinted Brigade Member‚≠ź
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Messages
11,975
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Have a guess....
Matt the Shrimp said:
Whisper it quietly, but I thought that Nicky "Tango" Nicolau went down awfully easily in the second leg of our League Two play-off semi-final against Northampton Town.

Given that we won the semi-final 1-0 on aggregate - and went on to get promoted - you have to say that if it was a tumble, it was a pretty darn significant one.

Matt
But at least there was some contact. I've got no problem with people making the most of contact, if a defender is stupid enough to hang a leg out in the area then they deserve to give a pen away. It's the outrageous dives :cough:Macca:cough: that wind me up
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator‚≠ź
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Oh come on, the worst diver in our team is Anthony Grant! I know Macca does pull the odd one (cough*Ricketts*cough) but Grant is far worse!
 

Cricko

Guest
Macca should be banned from the club forever for that dive.You would not see Sawyer doing that sort of thing.










































:net:
 

dloman

Manager
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
1,369
Oh come on, the worst diver in our team is Anthony Grant! I know Macca does pull the odd one (cough*Ricketts*cough) but Grant is far worse!


Agree that Grant is a lot worse, to the point it actually annoys me now! But Macca's one will take a lot of beating this season.
 

EastStandBlue

Life President
Joined
May 29, 2005
Messages
15,477
Oh come on, the worst diver in our team is Anthony Grant! I know Macca does pull the odd one (cough*Ricketts*cough) but Grant is far worse!

I think Grant gets singled out for a lot of abuse to be honest... He's a fiery little f*cker on the pitch and is often hard or late in the challenge and, with his relatively small frame, he will get kicked in the air in retaliation. Personally, whilst I haven't had the chance to go to every game over the last three years, I've never seen Grant take a dive but I have seen him be kicked 10ft in the air.

That said, I've only seen Macca "go down generously" on the odd occasion and don't think it's a problem we have in our side at all.

Back on topic though, I'd have no problem with a player going down easily to be awarded a goal that was so vital to us. I know I should, but I wouldn't.
 

chapperzUK

Guest
I would hate to see a player do a blatant dive in a Southend shirt but if there is contact and they play it up a bit (Grant and Macca) then it is isnt too bad. Nowadays, the player has to go to the ground to get a freekick, so by staying up he would rarely get a decision.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator‚≠ź
Staff member
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I think Grant gets singled out for a lot of abuse to be honest... He's a fiery little f*cker on the pitch and is often hard or late in the challenge and, with his relatively small frame, he will get kicked in the air in retaliation. Personally, whilst I haven't had the chance to go to every game over the last three years, I've never seen Grant take a dive but I have seen him be kicked 10ft in the air.

That said, I've only seen Macca "go down generously" on the odd occasion and don't think it's a problem we have in our side at all.

Back on topic though, I'd have no problem with a player going down easily to be awarded a goal that was so vital to us. I know I should, but I wouldn't.

Grant plays for free-kicks continually. He deliberately positions his body in such a way as to invite opponents to kick him. Beckham was the master at doing this.

It would be a shame if the UEFA clampdown meant the end of the comedy dive. Macca produced a classic against Millwall when you could tell he was going to dive before he'd even got into the box. Whilst I welcome the long overdue clampdown (we really needed it in the 2006/07 season when we weren't nearly as streetwise as we now are) it would be a shame that to lose the comedy dive.
 

Jai

President
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Nov 27, 2003
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They hand out a fine for diving and then wonder why nobody respects referees. Platini going on today about sticking a couple of extra refs on the goal lines.

Why not go the whole hog and have ten of them running around? Jeez.

Mistakes by officials are part and parcel of the game, you'll never get it right all the time so I wish they'd accept it.

A neutral mate commented after the Col Ewe away game last season that our lads seemed to go over rather easily. It doesn't sit easily with me but hell if the Argentines and Italians are going to benefit from gamesmanship then why shouldn't we.
 

EastStandBlue

Life President
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May 29, 2005
Messages
15,477
Platini, whilst relatively new in the administration, is well and truely a member of the Old Guard of football... Hate/Jealously/Fear, which ever you want to describe it as, of England ruining the "sanctity of football" with our money, foreign imports and domination of the European Game, a complete and utter refusal of technology in football and typical of kneejerk reactions to suit the administration.

He'll happily overcrowd the playing surface with referee's, despite the fact that the quality of referees and number of them at an all time low, yet he'll refuse any kind of hawkeye technology to be implemented. Goalline Hawkeye has been ready to roll out for some time now, yet UEFA won't sanction it's use. The fact that it was tested at the U17 Championships was kept very hush-hush.
 

Rob Noxious

Retro Supremo‚≠ź
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A neutral mate commented after the Col Ewe away game last season that our lads seemed to go over rather easily. It doesn't sit easily with me but hell if the Argentines and Italians are going to benefit from gamesmanship then why shouldn't we.

Two of the finest dives committed have been against Argentina in the World Cups of '98 & '02. Step forward (and fall over in the box) please, Michael Owen :clap:...I loved those dives then and boy did we need them! You win some, you lose some - that's just the way it is - and hearing Sven talking about it the other night, it is seen as very much part of the game in Italy and part of a skilful player's repertoire of tricks. Any of you old timers remember Franny Lee (Won Pen) ? Now there was a man without shame! :D
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
16,156
Whisper it quietly, but I thought that Nicky "Tango" Nicolau went down awfully easily in the second leg of our League Two play-off semi-final against Northampton Town.

Given that we won the semi-final 1-0 on aggregate - and went on to get promoted - you have to say that if it was a tumble, it was a pretty darn significant one.

Matt

He even admitted as much in his after match interview, and yes I did celebrate. However, I would also have applauded the ref. (albeit reluctantly) had he booked NN.

Personally I would applaud any retrospective punishment of a player that dives. And whilst we're at it, I think any manager that tries to defend said player should also be punished. Wenger's attempt to use Eduardo's recent injury as a "reason" for him jumping out the way was a) laughable, and b) cynical. If that were the case, how come he didn't jump out the way, and actually allowed his legs to disappear from under him, finishing in a heap on the pitch?
 

fredheim_holm

Where art thou Tes
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8,138
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It was a shocking dive and I was hoping the ref would book him. Southend or not, it's got no place in football. Amazed the cheek he had to go after the ref and scream at him for a penalty.
 

OldBlueLady

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It was a shocking dive and I was hoping the ref would book him. Southend or not, it's got no place in football. Amazed the cheek he had to go after the ref and scream at him for a penalty.

Don't ask you don't get Fred, you see it all over the world in football. Not condoning it, it's not a tactic I like either, but I've certainly seen far worse tactics used against us.
 

fredheim_holm

Where art thou Tes
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Messages
8,138
Location
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I see your point but I don't subscribe to the theory of falling to your opponents level. Might as well all support Millwall in the case.
 

borientater

Coach
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
845
Macca has suffered at the hands of some clowns trying to get him sent off over thw past couple of seasons , ie thornton of orient . Seems he has now decided that if you cant beat em join em , love the way he screams now when he goes down . As for the dive against millwall if he had tried to stay on his feet like he use to he would probably have got through on goal or drawn a proper foul and a genuine pen !
 
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