Are things that bad?

[BriggBlue]

Being a bit of the exile living in the north I rely on reports on here and the odd away game to judge the performance of the team, the away games that I've got along to were Rotherham and Donny (which were fun).

some of the reports on here seem to suggest that we are lucky not to be cut adrift of the bottom of the league, are things really that bad?

Being an engineer I like facts and stats so I've compared the table today to the one from last season after 13 games and were are 1 point and 2 goals better off, which suggests that we've actually improved. given the delta between top and bottom last year was 19 points this year is at 25 points, which indicates a bigger gulf in performance between teams in the division (the best are better than last year or the worst are worse or a combination of both).

we are currently 11th for shots on target (61 out of 177 total shots ) compared with 18th (49 oo 121 ) at the same point last season indicating that we are making more chances and hitting the target with a higher probability (0.40 vs 0.34).

we have scored more goals (17 vs 13) but conceded more (25 vs 23).

on paper all of the above makes it look like we are on paper better than last season, my question to those that are fortunate to get along every week is does any of the above come as a surprise? are the results masking poor performances that could make this comparative improvement a bit of false hope?

 

[manor15]

Think the major concern for me is that we lost a regular central defender and signed three defenders this summer, there's one cup appearance between two of them and the other has been dropped for a midfielder looking hopelessly lost and out of position.

Have to say I am surprised by that shots on target stat, I don't think any of our strikers have really found form this season, McLaughlin has looked a shadow of his former self too.

Last season around this time was when we had Ferdinand, Wordsworth, Ranger coming back into the side and getting fit. This season we are only waiting on the imminent returns of Turner (jury's out how long he will be available for and how good he will be) and yesterday Kightly. If we had Coker and Kiernan coming back soon too I think we would be in a much better position.

It seems to me that we looked to build a side around Ferdinand being solid at the back and Cox scoring goals up-front and are paying the consequences of relying on players past their peak and coming to the end of their careers.

 

[MisterStubbs]

We are a prime example of a club that’s inconsistent at the moment. Other than the Blackburn win, we haven’t really got going get in terms of excellent performances and we drop to many points at home for my liking BUT that all said, we are currently 3 points off the playoffs. My hope is that with Kightly now back, Turner hopefully not to far away we can start putting together a good run of form.

 

[JD]

The defensive crisis has definitely had an effect on the whole team. Confidence is low, and the strikers are struggling too.
We show glimpses of what we are capable of but the quality, particularly yesterday is rarely seen.

On top of that......the pitch at roots hall is awful.

I normally sit in the south upper and on Tuesday I thought it looked ok.... how wrong was I. I sat in block b of the east yesterday(after a legends lunch) and was shocked at how bad it looks at eye level. Without doubt the pitch affects our play.
It's still a major problem that will only get worse now that winter is coming...

 

[davewebbsbrain]

The defensive crisis has definitely had an effect on the whole team. Confidence is low, and the strikers are struggling too.
We show glimpses of what we are capable of but the quality, particularly yesterday is rarely seen.

On top of that......the pitch at roots hall is awful.

I normally sit in the south upper and on Tuesday I thought it looked ok.... how wrong was I. I sat in block b of the east yesterday(after a legends lunch) and was shocked at how bad it looks at eye level. Without doubt the pitch affects our play.
It's still a major problem that will only get worse now that winter is coming...

The pitch situation is a fair point but you need to remember our opponents are also playing on the same pitch and it hasn't always had the same detrimental effect on them. That said, a fair few of them like to play the long ball, whereas we like to pass the ball to death in the middle of the park

 

[RHB]

on paper all of the above makes it look like we are on paper better than last season, my question to those that are fortunate to get along every week is does any of the above come as a surprise? are the results masking poor performances that could make this comparative improvement a bit of false hope?

On paper we have a team that, when they are all available and fit, is probably better than last year. The real crunch this season is that our injury list has been dire and too many of those available to play are not producing last year's form. We have played some good stuff at times but at other times we have been horrible, you have seen evidence of that at Rotherham and Donny. Although we appear to have a better squad those injuries plus loss of confidence plus a dog of a pitch at Roots Hall have cost us points and the free flowing football we were treated to last season. A lot of the fans are desperate to see a settled back four, especially with Turner and Kiernan featuring regularly. I would love to see a fit Coker plying his trade at left back, I would also like to see Hendrie produce some of his form from his loan period with us. Non of that is a possibility at the moment. On the plus side our youngsters have stepped up to the mark but they still need time to mature into regular 1st teamers. Cox has lost his scoring instincts and Ranger has yet to really hit top form. Fortune continues to defy his age but really only has 60 minutes in him and Theo is a huge disappointment. Another possibility for the drop in form ironically is the Lenny transfer debacle of the close season. Lenny's form hasn't dropped but the whole business must have affected the squad. Sorry this is a bit all over the place, but as I type I realise that there isn't one definite reason for our current performances but I still get the feeling that with a bit more confidence infused through good results this team can be as good as it appears to be on paper.

 

[Jam_Man]

Think the major concern for me is that we lost a regular central defender and signed three defenders this summer, there's one cup appearance between two of them and the other has been dropped for a midfielder looking hopelessly lost and out of position.

Have to say I am surprised by that shots on target stat, I don't think any of our strikers have really found form this season, McLaughlin has looked a shadow of his former self too.

Last season around this time was when we had Ferdinand, Wordsworth, Ranger coming back into the side and getting fit. This season we are only waiting on the imminent returns of Turner (jury's out how long he will be available for and how good he will be) and yesterday Kightly. If we had Coker and Kiernan coming back soon too I think we would be in a much better position.

It seems to me that we looked to build a side around Ferdinand being solid at the back and Cox scoring goals up-front and are paying the consequences of relying on players past their peak and coming to the end of their careers.

Hendrie was injured for yesterday, whether he would have played if fit I dont know.

The biggest problem we have had this season is defensive injuries, we have never been able to field a regular back four. Of the 9 defenders on the books every one of them bar Elvis has been injured or away on international duty. Even now 5 of them are injured. Its easy to blame it on players past their peak but of the 5 currently injured Only one is over 30, the rest are under 28 so its not ageing players causing the problems. You know you are cursed when a 20 year old breaks into the team does well and gets injured for months.:facepalm:

In the past I've looked at the midfield and put a lot of the blame on them for defensive woes, but with Leonard in there he has actually saved un on numerous occasions. I don't think playing two wide players, as much as I like us to do so, did us any favours defensively, and as they weren't exactly creating or scoring loads of chances it was hard to justify carrying on with them.

However we may be in the attacking front you cant win games with the 3rd worst defence in the league, 26 goals in 15 games says it all.

Blackburn haven't scored any more than us and are in the play offs, because they don't get humped every other week.

 

[Tampa Blue]

The pitch situation is a fair point but you need to remember our opponents are also playing on the same pitch and it hasn't always had the same detrimental effect on them. That said, a fair few of them like to play the long ball, whereas we like to pass the ball to death in the middle of the park

Pitch is terrible and our performances at home have generally been poor - but have we lost at home yet in the League?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Pitch is terrible and our performances at home have generally been poor - but have we lost at home yet in the League?

Maybe you need to reply to JD, who first mentioned the poor pitch. Targeting my post makes you look like you have a hidden agenda

In answer to your question, from a league perspective, won 3, drew 3.

 

[AndyT]

The pitch situation is a fair point but you need to remember our opponents are also playing on the same pitch and it hasn't always had the same detrimental effect on them. That said, a fair few of them like to play the long ball, whereas we like to pass the ball to death in the middle of the park

None of our opponents have beaten us, at Roots Hall.

Edit : I see someone above has made the same point

 

[davewebbsbrain]

None of our opponents have beaten us, at Roots Hall.

Edit : I see someone above has made the same point

I don't get the point though. Someone said we were poor at home partly due to the pitch and I've just made the point that both teams have to play on the same pitch. The result is irrelevant, I was just stating that both teams have the same handicap. Maybe we could have beaten the teams we drew against had we bypassed the pitch a bit more but we like to pass the ball about.

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

Won 4 and drawn 4

Pitch is awful, and does effect us. If front of the east greens yesterday, Cox tried to block a clearance, the pitch gave way, and he twisted his knee a little. He then gestured to the pitch and moaned to PB. No,doubt it has contributed to a few niggles and stray passes.

I think the main issue is, after our poor start last year we went on an unbelievable run picking up better than 2 points a game. I don’t think we are going to be able to repeat that this season.

 

[AndyT]

I don't get the point though. Someone said we were poor at home partly due to the pitch and I've just made the point that both teams have to play on the same pitch. The result is irrelevant, I was just stating that both teams have the same handicap. Maybe we could have beaten the teams we drew against had we bypassed the pitch a bit more but we like to pass the ball about.

'JD's' original point was that the condition of our pitch affects our style of play.

Your point was that the pitch "hasn't always had the same detrimental effect on them" (The oppo), which suggested other teams were happy with our pitch and showing there is nothing wrong with it by arriving here and soundly beating us.

My view is that our best performances in the last couple of years, particularly at home, have been when we move the ball around on the floor at pace and that style of play is hindered by a poorer pitch.

We have often hit the ball long, partly because of this and got precisely nowhere doing it. It's not our best style of play, but we are having to mix it up a bit.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

'JD's' original point was that the condition of our pitch affects our style of play.

Your point was that the pitch "hasn't always had the same detrimental effect on them" (The oppo), which suggested other teams were happy with our pitch and showing there is nothing wrong with it by arriving here and soundly beating us.

My view is that our best performances in the last couple of years, particularly at home, have been when we move the ball around on the floor at pace and that style of play is hindered by a poorer pitch.

I agree, and that's why I said maybe we should bypass the pitch more. We do tend to over play in the middle of the park and maybe we should be pumping up top a bit more. Yes we have won 3 and drawn 3 bits maybe by applying a bit of long ball pressure on a pitch that isn't best suited to passing the ball about, we could have turned those draws into wins. That would mean having a target man and only Ranger really fits that role, tho I'm sure Fortune could play the role well too

 

[AndyT]

Fair comment 'dwb'.

The target man style doesn't really work for us. I think that's why the pitch plays more of a part.

The oppo have scored 6 goals in 8 games at Roots Hall. A goal every 120 minutes, so I think there is a pattern here (i.e. both sides struggle to score from open play).

I'd be interested to know how many goals of those 6 did not take the pitch into the equation.

Recently, the Blackpool goal was a long ball over the top and I can think of two other goals that were headers from corners, I think. This does re-iterate your point, I accept that. Hence working on our set-pieces is more of a must, this season.

Just not sure changing our style would result in any greater success at home. Improving the pitch, though, definitely would.

 

[LBBlue]

A third of the way through the season, away from home we have been stuffed by 4 of the current top 5. At home we have picked up 9 points and scored 5 goals against 5 of the bottom 8. We are slap bang in mid table. 8 more games and we will have played everyone once and we will probably still be mid table. The November run cant last for ever!

We still don't have a first eleven and to my mind we don't have a balanced midfield- we lack a Maher, McCormack, Butler, Guttridge type of player who gets stuck in and moves the ball quickly. Lenny and Demetriou apart, I don't think we are that athletic and quick footed. The older players will naturally lose their sharpness. We have some skillful players who are hampered by the pitch at Roots Hall. And I wonder if the players who have "seen it and done it" are really up for it on long away trips.

Midtable is probably where we will stay - the worry is that a lot of the better sides have to come to Roots Hall in the second half of the season and will we pick up enough points in the away games against the poorer sides.

 

[South Bank Hank]

That said, a fair few of them like to play the long ball, whereas we like to pass the ball to death

I’m assuming Death plays for the opposition. :-)


Passing hasn’t been our strong point this season. But as to the original poster, no... it’s nowhere near as bad as some will have made it sound. And we’re three points (well, four really) off the playoffs despite a back four that was decimated, and without really getting going yet. The players seem well bonded and there are signs of unity in the camp right now. I’ll take that as a foundation to build on for the rest of the season.

Of course, we do need to improve but I trust Brown to oversee that, just as he has in his previous seasons with the club.

 

[Tampa Blue]

Maybe you need to reply to JD, who first mentioned the poor pitch. Targeting my post makes you look like you have a hidden agenda

In answer to your question, from a league perspective, won 3, drew 3.

hidden agenda - really?

I actually agree with and like many of your posts - won't bother in future

 

[davewebbsbrain]

hidden agenda - really?

I actually agree with and like many of your posts - won't bother in future

Fair enough, I may have misjudged your post. Just frustrated that others say the same as me yet my posts get targeted because I say what I think. There were others before me that had mentioned the pitch yet my post was the one that was seized upon. Maybe you replied to mine because you agree with some of them so for that I apologise

 

[Donal]

It's onward and upwards from here. 5 games lost (4 away to teams within the top 5). Only 3 points from the play off positions. That's for a team in a bad patch of form. Form will improve soon and I'd advise people to have a bet at the bookies on a top six place. The pitch should be advantageous as SU should now be used to it.