Are today's players over fitness trained, so they break down.

[Always a Shrimper]

I was 11 when I first watched SUFC at the Hall, I am now 77 years of age having watched over the
years countless games. In the old days many team players played the full season without periods of
injured time out. They were hard men, like Roy Hollis, Williamson, Anderson, Duffy etc.
Then the playing surface in winter was often a mud bath, no subs were allowed! Today, there is so much
time given to training them to a fine peak of condition, that if anything at all is wrong they breakdown! There are so many vested interests today and jobs involved in all these aspects of fitness, food intake etc.
Your views please.

 

[defender05]

Our fitness and injury problems seemed to start getting worse when Brown decided to have a clear out of our staff the first time he was here.

 

[londonblue]

I don't think so. I think the "issue" is that everyone is more clued up. It used to be that people played through the pain barrier and made injuries worse. (I remember seeing an interview with Dennis Law long after he retired when he said he can't walk without the use of two walking sticks because his knees were completely knackered.) Players don't do that anymore, and we simply shouldn't expect them to.

Sports science has also improved from when we first started watching football (for me that was the 70s) and people understand that a small injury will not go away without treatment and rest. If you don't do that you run the risk of making it much worse.

A fair few years ago I was talking to my football agent friend who was telling me how Arsene Wenger was way ahead of his time in that respect. He was telling me that any of his players who had even a tiny injury weren't allowed to play. He used the example of someone with a tiny pain in their calf. The risk was that playing through that (which would have been the norm a few years previously) could lead to a full blown tear which would have the player out for months rather than the week or so it would take to heal at an early stage. It seems that view has now become the norm, and (IMO) that's a good thing. We have no right to expect players to cripple themselves for the sake of sport.

I would also say that the strength and conditioning the players do nowadays actually make it less likely that they'll be out injured. It's just that what constitutes an injury has been re-defined.

 

[Smiffy]

My view is the "medical department" has been underfunded, understaffed and lacking the necessary tools for quite some time. You could probably say that about a lot of areas at the club to be honest. Kudos to the Shrimpers Trust for assisting with vital equipment for a number of years as well. But, they really shouldn't need to be doing that.

High turnover of staff, calling mates in, calling favours in, too few doing too much etc etc.
All this has contributed to a very poor setup for a number of years now. Right back to the days of Big Ben (God I miss him)

Our injury record and recovery has been appalling in recent years. That's not just bad luck.

There's also an argument that we have perhaps acquired too many players past their peak or with underlying issues in recent times, which obviously has heightened the problems. But, that's another discussion entirely.

 

[londonblue]

My view is the "medical department" has been underfunded, understaffed and lacking the necessary tools for quite some time. You could probably say that about a lot of areas at the club to be honest. Kudos to the Shrimpers Trust for assisting with vital equipment for a number of years as well. But, they really shouldn't need to be doing that.

High turnover of staff, calling mates in, calling favours in, too few doing too much etc etc.
All this has contributed to a very poor setup for a number of years now. Right back to the days of Big Ben (God I miss him)

Our injury record and recovery has been appalling in recent years. That's not just bad luck.

There's also an argument that we have perhaps acquired too many players past their peak or with underlying issues in recent times, which obviously has heightened the problems. But, that's another discussion entirely.

Indeed. That's the other side of the equation. If a player is out injured we need a decent medical department to get them back as quick (and as safely) as possible. It seems we don't have that.

I've mentioned that before. As my wife said, we seem to have too many injuries that take too long to heal, which leads her to believe a full assessment of that department should be undertaken. It's not that she's sure there's a problem, but without an assessment you'll never know.

It might be that the club have done that and frankly if they have the findings are none of our business.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The difference is that the game is now more about speed than strength. They use to play at 80% pace and try and outmuscle rather than outpace. Thoroughbreds run faster but also break down more often than carthorses.

 

[southendkid]

Footballers were "hard" back then because nobody had a clue what they were doing, plenty of footballers would still want to play through injuries these days but they'll be told "no" by the medical staff and rightly so. Once Wenger came in and implemented basic concepts like having a healthy diet and not playing through injuries his Arsenal side dominated.

The standard of football increasing probably also contributes to it, because everyone is at peak fitness you need to push your body to compete, back when everyone was smoking and necking down pints every day no one had the stamina to push their muscles to their limit.

 

[LBBlue]

High press, every one has to run around like demented fools, trackers on their back so there is no escape. Players are bigger and more athletic rather than clever footballers.

How would Stanley Matthews, George Best and Jimmy Greaves get on in the modern game?

 

[Napster]

High press, every one has to run around like demented fools, trackers on their back so there is no escape. Players are bigger and more athletic rather than clever footballers.

How would Stanley Matthews, George Best and Jimmy Greaves get on in the modern game?

I'd imagine all 3 would cope very well. All three were miles ahead of the average player at the time.

 

[londonblue]

High press, every one has to run around like demented fools, trackers on their back so there is no escape. Players are bigger and more athletic rather than clever footballers.

How would Stanley Matthews, George Best and Jimmy Greaves get on in the modern game?

George Best would thrive. The only way players could stop him was by kicking lumps out of him. They wouldn't be allowed to do that these days. The other two would probably thrive too.

 

[thenobster]

Bring back fags and beer for half time. Beanos along the seafront.. ah, thems were the days.

In seriousness, the premiership players are very highly trained almost like a machine. All levels copy this to the best of the players ability.. but even Ford escorts broke down more than porches

 

[Barling Magna]

Bring back fags and beer for half time. Beanos along the seafront.. ah, thems were the days.

In seriousness, the premiership players are very highly trained almost like a machine. All levels copy this to the best of the players ability.. but even Ford escorts broke down more than porches

I remember my porch broke down a while back. I really should have repaired that woodwork before it happened.......

 

[thenobster]

I remember my porch broke down a while back. I really should have repaired that woodwork before it happened.......

Exactly that.. varnish, double glazed.. even undercoat with a step..I bet you looked after it meticulously

 

[Barry.C]

The fact that Always a shrimper has opened this question up reminds me that this has been an issue for us for some time, but it probably relates to a whole , wide range of issues,

First off I genuinely believe Luck/fate does play a part as it does in every walk of life and we have had a long spell of terrible Luck on the injury front, thinking back to Chris Powells horrible misfortunes through to today with Cardwell, Hyde ( you couldnt make that one up ) Murphy, Scott Moriss, Lomas, Arnold ( Hobbling ? )

Then we have Rons management and finances to consider, embargo after embargo, desperate moves trying to survive, For 2 seasons prior to our fall from grace we employed over 40 players. Less injuries tend to occur when you are doing well

For 6 seasons prior to our drop we only averaged 4 players making it through over 30 games in a season, somewhat below the national average, as we tinkered and ran with 44 players, desperate stuff. No wonder Kev fancies a smaller squad, That year Bwomono turned up more than most with just 35 appearances

We get a smaller squad and the injury plague hits us again

Our physio department has not been in the best shape either

Is the pace and expectations of the game different, Have the number of games increased ?? More games played, Pace of the game, less recovery time? Probably?

English cricket recently had 9 of our bowlers out injured. When New Zealand came they had a small background crew of about 8 people, England had an entourage of 24, I think, I mocked perhaps unfairly whether it included a hair dresser and toe masseur, Bowl four overs and you are knackered? Fred Trueman comes oop from pit drinks 9 pints and bowls 44 overs without breakin into swet lad?

However the shock is that according to the British Journel of Sports Medicine, last year,

( Ekstrand J, Sporeco A, Bengtsson H, Bahr R. Injury rates decreased in men’s professional football: an 18-year prospective cohort study of almost 12000 injuries sustained during 1.8 million hours of play. Br J Sports Med 2021; en prensa, )

The rate of injuries has slightly dropped off due to better sports science and taking care of players ??
I give up, answers on a postcard to my hypnotherapist

 

[thenobster]

Fried breakfast before I ever played never did me any harm.. not football related though

 

[BEERMONSTER]

I think you have to accept that in general both men and women physically were stronger and arguably tougher in the era's you refer to. More labour intensive lives both in the workplace and home aided the building of natural body strength at an earlier age. Exposure to physical exercise at school, military and national service, people walked and cycled more so your average footballer back in the day had physicality that the modern player develops in the gym. Obviously today's players have all the benefits of Sports Science and Nutrition guidance. They tended to be racehorse more than carthorse (we have as a Club over recent years had a tendency to buck the trend ) no slight on footballing skills or ability here for players of years gone bye, modern players have better pitches, better kit, carpet slipper boots and beach balls in comparison. The modern game looks for speed and agility from it's players and that increases the risks of muscle and ligament injury, they don't play and carry injuries into games as did past players.
From the Club's perspective our medical department, which I am sure is an area that needs financial input, does it's best to get players back as soon as possible with the players welfare in mind, but the criteria for a player to make a return is different these days. Nature is nature and individuals have differing healing and recovery times but obviously the better equipped your medical department is then it's going to help !

 

[rigsby]

Plenty of myths being quoted already. Footballers were all booze and fags and are now crippled.

Yesterday I had a chat with Andy Smillie at the coffee hut in Thorpe Bay. He regularly cycles along the front from Belfairs and looks good for it. He must be in his early 80’s

As for George Best in todays game of course he would get injured because he would be coached to go down. Which means take a whack. If he was coached to skip over the tackles then he would be as good today as he was back then.

Mclaughlin got a season ender v Charlton at home over Christmas during his best sleep with us. He tried to manufacture a foul on the edge of our own box.

Rather than two players having an honest block tackle now we end up with double reds because both are trying to be sneaky.

That is the main reason there is more injuries.

The reason lots of young adults, not just footballers are less ‘robust’ is the 3-14 years of age lack of physical activity. Running, jumping, twisting and turning etc produces stronger bone and tendons as they are growing up

An hour of organised play, 20 minute games of football and Limited to 4 overs of cricket means less fitness.

Which is why the Army, Police and Firebrigade have had to lower their fitness standards to embarrassing levels.

 

[Westcliff Shrimper]

Kudos to the Shrimpers Trust for assisting with vital equipment for a number of years as well. But, they really shouldn't need to be doing that.

Thanks for this Smiffy - the Shrimper Trust is here to Support Southend United, so it kinda is within our remit to help when we can. We are in talks with the S&C Coach to hopefully get more equipment in that can also be used when the Training Ground is moved north to the new base...
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[Blues4LifeDan]

I do think that the narrative has been set in stone so much so that we have a generic view about certain players. That narrative has convinced us that certain players have got injured because they are 'over the hill' or 'on a pay day' or 'injury prone'. Of course, this might be the case on a few occasions but it probably isn't the case all of the time.

Plenty of clubs thrive and succeed with experienced players, Peter Clarke is still going might I add. Maybe it's less to do with them being old and more to do with the physical management of each individual. Do we give them enough time to recover? Do manage their minutes properly? Do we handle their training accordingly?

Take Demi, we were told he couldn't play two games in a week because his knees can't take it. This was about 3-4 years ago. However, he is older now and can play more games in a greater grueling league. Work that out! Luck? I doubt it. Maybe it's how we are managing him now.

There have been many stories about previous managers playing players that weren't ready to come back and therefore got further injuries. One could argue Hyde needed a few weeks training with the group and a behind closed doors game before being match sharp. I can't see Kev doing that too often with players though. Just think that was a slightly desperate situation with Dalby leaving.

Admittedly, the set-up in the background is woefully underfunded but I do also think the mentality isn't right as pointed out at beginning of my post. It's been like it for so long at the club, it's hard to change it. I think Kev is trying to change that. He will make mistakes when desperate of course, he is human fighting for his job like many others, but I do think he will do the right thing overall with the players. He hasn't rushed Lomas back for example.

Unfortunately, we are non-league now and the set-up is portraying that. Modern day football is so much more about behind the scenes than on a Saturday at 3 o'clock. For us to be successful long-term, it has to be rectified.

 

[Justleavingwork]

I posted in the injury curse thread

“Anything that is not impact injuries is down to lack of adequate recovery. This is either poor strength and conditions, lack of physical therapy or both area.

As our part time players are injured, I’m going to say whoever is responsible for S&C is the likely cause of our woe (maybe not Hyde) and not helped by having no full time physio.

Have we changed the S&C since Chris’s days?”

As an endurance athletics coach the biggest issue here is the players strength/conditioning and recovery is not correctly balanced and hence not managed correctly.

As I said in the previous thread, other than impact injuries all others injuries are related to too much stresses with too little/limited recovery and that’s why the players are breaking down. Look at the part time players training like a full time players, how many are injured?

The S&C plus physio team are at fault here and maybe the management team for playing those that need more recovery.

To stop the injury rot, far more focus needs to go S&C and physio team otherwise it’s a repeat after repeat.

if it’s true Phil Brown got rid of most of the team, then the whole spiral of repeat injuries and not fully fit players started here and the managers coming in never addressed this problem