• Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.

    Existing Users:.
    Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.

    New Users:
    Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.

    Fans from other clubs
    We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.

    Assistance Required
    For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.

Are we a victim of the quality of football?

J

The Chameleon
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
7,576
I'm struggling to see how we are a worse team than won this league. Are we a victim of the change in the quality of football?

Can anybody really say that Jupp was better than Francis? Spinner was better than Mvoto? Wilson better than Malone? How about midfield - granted, Gower wasn't too shabby - but Granty / Moussa worse than Bentley / Guttridge?

How the feck have we ended up with potentially a stronger player base, yet a seriously weakened team?
 

Ron Manager

formerly Libertine
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
5,628
Location
Brisbane, Australia
How the feck have we ended up with potentially a stronger player base, yet a seriously weakened team?

Because the team spirit in that title winning side meant they were more than the sum of their parts. Southend was a club on the up, crowds were getting bigger, things were moving on the stadium front and it was generally a good time to be a Shrimper. That showed on the pitch.

Now we have financial issues, the stadium appears further away now than it ever has and we are relying on loans to make up the numbers.
 

Blueshrimper

Manager
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
1,546
Freddy had alot to do with it. He won games on hes own at times. Not saying he did it himself but he was a huge factor.
 
Last edited:

turkishm

Director
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
2,882
Location
Turkey
I'm struggling to see how we are a worse team than won this league. Are we a victim of the change in the quality of football?

Can anybody really say that Jupp was better than Francis? Spinner was better than Mvoto? Wilson better than Malone? How about midfield - granted, Gower wasn't too shabby - but Granty / Moussa worse than Bentley / Guttridge?

How the feck have we ended up with potentially a stronger player base, yet a seriously weakened team?
Well Spinner was a lot better than Mvoto for a start, when he left we started conceded goals against at a much larger rate. As you have mentioned we had Gower, then Freddy up front, those three players alone could make a hell of a difference.
 

Beefy

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
18,901
Location
Old Leigh
There's a lot of players around a similar standard to the one that won this league, no doubt about it.

The problem is that whilst that squad had 17 or 18 decent, honest Pros with two or three players of genuine quality; this squad has 13 or 14 honest Pros and no one with the extra touch of class that will see them playing in the Championship over the next few years like Gower and Eastwood have.

Having Prior, Barrett and Edwards on the books for the start of the season and then bringing in Sodje provided an amazing base to build on. Whereas this year we've Barrett on his own.

The effect of having a smaller squad than one that was pretty small anyway can't be underestimated. As I said yesterday it's meant players playing out of position, players playing when injured, out of form and desperately in need of a rest.
 

Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
15,238
Location
Immersed in the accounts
I believe we are as much a victim of the quality in this division at the moment as the lack of quality 5 years ago.

A strong 3rd tier may well have meant a top half finish first season up from the basement, giving us time to consolidate on a budget as opposed to overspending in a futile attempt to stay above our station
 

Beefy

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
18,901
Location
Old Leigh
Aside from a small handful of teams at the top, the standard of this division is shocking, IMO.
 

Jam_Man

Life President
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
25,545
Location
Southend
Aside from a small handful of teams at the top, the standard of this division is shocking, IMO.

Agreed, the top 4 are strong but the rest is no better.

You can say that being in a league with Leeds/Norwich/Charlton makes it harder to get promoted but the fact we cant beat Wycombe and Tranmere at home is why we are where we are. We arent even beating the crap teams, and lets face it we are one of the crap teams this year.

Player for player we arent miles away from the leauge one champions side, I think Wilson, Jupp/Hunt etc werent any better than we have. However we had a solid team back then that was used to winning and with so many changes this year we have had no cohesion at all.

The biggest factor for me though is we have lacked any sort of quality in midfield, yes we had Eastwood, but this year we had Barnard so almost replaced, but without the likes of Gower Maher and Guttridge who could all use the ball we struggle to play how we used to.

Gower Maher Guttridge Pettefer

or

Scannell/Moussa JFC MCormack Laurent

Know which one Id pick...
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
6,800
Location
Oregon
but Granty / Moussa worse than Bentley / Guttridge?

Guttridge was light years ahead of either of those players during our title winning season and Bentley is quite simply the best player to ever pull on a Southend shirt.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
32
Guttridge was light years ahead of either of those players during our title winning season and Bentley is quite simply the best player to ever pull on a Southend shirt.

Guttridge was technically decent (when he wanted to actually play), but all in all was a jumped up gob-***** who was nowhere near as good as people seem to remember through rose-tinted spectacles. I think Grant has the potential to be as good, if not better than him (and with a darn-sight better attitude). And there is no way in the world Bentley is even in the top 10 players to pull on the Blues shirt, let alone the best (possibly not even top 15-20).

A very hard-working midfielder, his height was very useful when we were in the third and playing the likes of Lincoln and their long-ball game week in - week out, but all in all he wasn't that great.

It's easy to look back longingly at other midfielders now, but it's purely because of our tiny squad size that these former players look so appealing, I for one would certainly not want someone like Guttridge back with his stinking attitude (and I'm fairly sure Tilly agrees, hence Sawyer being on his way quickly after showing signs of a similiar attitude).
 

DTS

The Business
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
16,173
Location
In a world of my own.
Guttridge was technically decent (when he wanted to actually play), but all in all was a jumped up gob-***** who was nowhere near as good as people seem to remember through rose-tinted spectacles. I think Grant has the potential to be as good, if not better than him (and with a darn-sight better attitude). And there is no way in the world Bentley is even in the top 10 players to pull on the Blues shirt, let alone the best (possibly not even top 15-20).

A very hard-working midfielder, his height was very useful when we were in the third and playing the likes of Lincoln and their long-ball game week in - week out, but all in all he wasn't that great.

It's easy to look back longingly at other midfielders now, but it's purely because of our tiny squad size that these former players look so appealing, I for one would certainly not want someone like Guttridge back with his stinking attitude (and I'm fairly sure Tilly agrees, hence Sawyer being on his way quickly after showing signs of a similiar attitude).

First off welcome to the board.

I like Granty but I dont think he is a patch on Gutteridge. Granty is a great holding player but his goal scoring record is one I think in what fifty odd games. Gutteridge was a good defensive player but going forward he was superb at times and I dont see Grant ever being able to replicate that.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
32
First off welcome to the board.

I like Granty but I dont think he is a patch on Gutteridge. Granty is a great holding player but his goal scoring record is one I think in what fifty odd games. Gutteridge was a good defensive player but going forward he was superb at times and I dont see Grant ever being able to replicate that.


Thanks very much.

You make a good point, Guttridge did have a much better going forward aspect to his game. More of an all-round midfielder shall we say? The problem was with his attitude, I remember being at Cambridge away when we were in the third (can't have been too long after we signed him) and they were saying how he had continually feigned injury for the club, but had then been caught out in a local night-club when he was not fit enough to play.

Could've been very good without the attitude. I still think Grant has a lot to offer, especially if he had some stability around him. From what I've seen of us recently, we could really do with someone of the quality of Gower again (and with an ability to use both feet to cross), he was a great player for League One standard.
 

Stodge

First XI
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
353
Location
Benfleet
Wayne Gray also gave Freddy superb support for much of the season, which was badly missed in the Championship
 

Jai

President
Joined
Nov 27, 2003
Messages
6,128
Location
Witham
I strongly disagree that the current side is fit to lace the boots of the one that won the league four years ago.

We have three strikers, one of whom is on loan, and two of whom have ten career league starts between them.
They are backed up by a central midfield who may as well not be there, they spend so much time suspended or injured, an average winger in Scannell, a Frenchman who cannot cross and Franck Moussa, who looked good last year but to be honest has been completely missing since April.
At the back, Spencer Prior was a natural leader who could organise and marshal a back four superbly. This year we have had eight different partners for Adam Barrett, the only constant from both teams, and are currently putting our faith in Mvoto, who is alarmingly error-prone and has a penchant for playing people onside. Malone is a kid, I grant you he's probably better than Che Wilson. Francis is certainly our best player and better than Jupp. In goal, Mildenhall is better than Flahavan.

But to be honest, as someone said, it's the lack of continuity (we've used 33 different players this season), the total lack of balance and the fact that nobody, bar none, is capable of putting the ball in the back of the net on a regular basis. Our two most dangerous attacking players are Simon Francis and Adam Barrett.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
6,800
Location
Oregon
And there is no way in the world Bentley is even in the top 10 players to pull on the Blues shirt, let alone the best (possibly not even top 15-20).

A very hard-working midfielder, his height was very useful when we were in the third and playing the likes of Lincoln and their long-ball game week in - week out, but all in all he wasn't that great.

That is an absolutely outrageous statement. Mark Bentley is not only the best player ever to have played for Southend, he is also the greatest footballer of his or any other generation.
 
Top