Are we punching well above our weight!?

[The General]

Not very often I do a sensible post but from time to time I can string a sentence or two together. Now it's been a pretty disappointing start to 2016, after an incredible 2015 whereby we only lost 10 league games in a calendar year! Whatever level you are playing at, that's good going! The Colchester game was a big worry. We could all see we didn't play well and got somewhat fortunate with that result. We got our comeuppance in the next 3 games that's for sure before impressively stopping the rot against a strong P'Boro side.

We currently sit 9th and if we are all being honest, we'd have taken that in August. It's always disappointing to lose 3 games on the bounce (especially in the fashion we have) but overall it's been a strong start to life in League 1, a level in which we aren't very good at hanging around, be it for good or bad.

Onto my point, I've felt all season we are punching above our weight. For those on Twitter, and for those who aren't, head to experimental361.com . Now it's all about stats and what they say about each sides abilities, qualities, strengths and weaknesses. Now if you've got 5/10 mins it's worse having a look to appreciate it and then have a closer look at us. These stats in my opinion are actually very alarming and certainly "out of sync" with the rest of the division. Basically we are close to Crewe and the likes and the rankings put us as one of the weakest sides in the league.

Now all this fall-out about players wanting to leave could, IN THE LONG TERM, be a blessing in disguise. The strength of the squad is competent but we lack some real quality. Hurst annoys the hell out of me but hasn't been given much of a chance this season but it's clear he's off. Prosser has improved greatly but isn't good enough at this level to be in the starting XI. Worrall has flattered to deceive this season and on the whole hadn't done an awful lot. Bentley doesn't have a future here. Macca has clear ability but if he ever plays 4/5 games in a row for us I'll be shocked. Weston and Tims have seemingly been injured forever and unfortunately Woody woke up but then got a bad one and we won't see the best of until late March / early April. It's important we bring in 3/4 players in the next 2 weeks and then again strengthen in the summer. Promotion was never on the cards this season but it's all about progression and being the best we can be.

We have a lot to thank PB for, but his hard-work could all be undone in another months time if he isn't careful!

UTB.

 

[manor15]

Very good points well made.

Completely agree about a lot of our squad being replaceable. Here's my take on our currently under contract players, a few I think we wouldn't want to see go but not the end of the world if they did, e.g. Worrall, White, etc., and similar who wouldn't want to see go but long term will need replacing within a few seasons, e.g. Timlin, Hunt. Only big losses for me would be Bentley, Coker, Leonard and Payne.

GK
Dan Bentley - Best player, wins points on his own, irreplaceable but his departure is inevitable
Ted Smith - Potential but not good enough yet
Paul Smith - Not needed at all (in a playing role at least)

DEF:
Ben Coker - Very good player but would take a few hundred thousand for him if offered
Luke Prosser - Replaceable
John White - Important but could be replaced
Adam Thompson - Potential to be better but currently replaceable
Cian Bolger - As above, only more developed
Adam Barrett - Replaceable
Luke O'Neill - Hasn't had much of an impact so replaceable

MID:
Ryan Leonard - Very important player to us, wouldn't want to see him go
Kevan Hurst - Replaceable
Michael Timlin – Important player but replaceable long term
Will Atkinson - Replaceable
Jack Payne - Bags of potential, offers something unique and would be hard to replace
Myles Weston - Replaceable
David Worrall - Sad to see him go but could be replaced
Gary Deegan - Replaceable
Anthony Wordsworth - Bad luck with injuries, hard to say but so far he hasn't had a massive impact and could be replaced
Stephen McLaughlin - As above

FWD:
David Mooney - Replaceable
Noel Hunt - Good player to have but replaceable long term
Jason Williams - The Messiah

 

[Chalky]

Very good points well made.

Completely agree about a lot of our squad being replaceable. Here's my take on our currently under contract players, a few I think we wouldn't want to see go but not the end of the world if they did, e.g. Worrall, White, etc., and similar who wouldn't want to see go but long term will need replacing within a few seasons, e.g. Timlin, Hunt. Only big losses for me would be Bentley, Coker and Leonard.

GK
Dan Bentley - Best player, wins points on his own, irreplaceable but his departure is inevitable
Ted Smith - Potential but not good enough yet
Paul Smith - Not needed at all (in a playing role at least)

DEF:
Ben Coker - Very good player but would take a few hundred thousand for him if offered
Luke Prosser - Replaceable
John White - Important but could be replaced
Adam Thompson - Potential to be better but currently replaceable
Cian Bolger - As above, only more developed
Adam Barrett - Replaceable
Luke O'Neill - Hasn't had much of an impact so replaceable

MID:
Ryan Leonard - Very important player to us, wouldn't want to see him go
Kevan Hurst - Replaceable
Michael Timlin – Important player but replaceable long term
Will Atkinson - Replaceable
Jack Payne - Bags of potential, with what he currently offers he could probably be replaced
Myles Weston - Replaceable
David Worrall - Sad to see him go but could be replaced
Gary Deegan - Replaceable
Anthony Wordsworth - Bad luck with injuries, hard to say but so far he hasn't had a massive impact and could be replaced
Stephen McLaughlin - As above

FWD:
David Mooney - Replaceable
Noel Hunt - Good player to have but replaceable long term
Jason Williams - The Messiah

I agree with most of that apart from the Jack Payne bit. I don't think he is that 'replaceable'. Players like Jack Payne don't come around often. He is still so young. I believe Payne could really go far, every now and again he shows glimpses of real quality. Sometimes you start rising from your seat when Little Jack has the ball Because his footwork and trickery is sublime. The team should cater for him more. If he puts the work in, Little Jack could be a star.

 

[Shrimpet]

The guy who said jack payne is replaceable obviousley doesn't watch southend games! He is by far our best player and is like a little messy!!

 

[manor15]

I agree with most of that apart from the Jack Payne bit. I don't think he is that 'replaceable'. Players like Jack Payne don't come around often. He is still so young. I believe Payne could really go far, every now and again he shows glimpses of real quality. Sometimes you start rising from your seat when Little Jack has the ball Because his footwork and trickery is sublime. The team should cater for him more. If he puts the work in, Little Jack could be a star.

Completely agree, only put replaceable due to his off days, but they are becoming more and more rare, and he's got more potential than any other outfield player at the club. Have edited the original post to reflect that.

 

[USAShrimper]

Pretty happy with where we are positioned right now, Dreaded the drop back into the mediocrity of L2 more than being confident of getting up into the Championship. Consolidating the club in L1 over the next 3-5 seasons might not seem that attractive. However, It will create opportunities to grow a new team, not do it with "bits & pieces", loans and "hand me downs" what is what we've had to do over the last 5 years. Payne is a key figure in this plan, so should be given every opportunity to stay and develop.

 

[Shrimperforlife]

The guy who said jack payne is replaceable obviousley doesn't watch southend games! He is by far our best player and is like a little messy!!

messi has an end product and doesn't get knocked over all the time....Jack Payne does...

 

[dbailey3]

Got say I honestly think Adam Thompson has been brilliant this season (apart from maybe the dreadful run). I think we should rebuild out defence around him. He seems to be the only one who can put in a header.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

messi has an end product and doesn't get knocked over all the time....Jack Payne does...

We might as well get rid of Payne then.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

Got say I honestly think Adam Thompson has been brilliant this season (apart from maybe the dreadful run). I think we should rebuild out defence around him. He seems to be the only one who can put in a header.

Been hugely impressed with Thompson since he's come back into the side, and agree that the defence should probably be built around him. Bolger and Thompson both have potential to be our 1st choice CBs for a few years if they continue to improve.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I think Mr Brown had the right ideas of what areas to strengthen before the season started and got in, what he hoped, would be the right trio to do that. Rea in defence, WWorth in middle and Mooney to get goals with all 3 being starters for most games. It hasn't worked out for any of those 3 so now Phil is going for another set of players and will need to off load some that he now knows aren't going to be weekly contenders for the starting 11.
Barnett is the start (and for next season) but others whose contract runs out in the summer AND aren't being offered new deals will know that it is time to get their agents working.

 

[rlb999]

We're punching at our weight - mid table, league 1.
Also, everyone is replaceable.

 

[kaymac]

Not very often I do a sensible post but from time to time I can string a sentence or two together. Now it's been a pretty disappointing start to 2016, after an incredible 2015 whereby we only lost 10 league games in a calendar year! Whatever level you are playing at, that's good going! The Colchester game was a big worry. We could all see we didn't play well and got somewhat fortunate with that result. We got our comeuppance in the next 3 games that's for sure before impressively stopping the rot against a strong P'Boro side.

We currently sit 9th and if we are all being honest, we'd have taken that in August. It's always disappointing to lose 3 games on the bounce (especially in the fashion we have) but overall it's been a strong start to life in League 1, a level in which we aren't very good at hanging around, be it for good or bad.

Onto my point, I've felt all season we are punching above our weight. For those on Twitter, and for those who aren't, head to experimental361.com . Now it's all about stats and what they say about each sides abilities, qualities, strengths and weaknesses. Now if you've got 5/10 mins it's worse having a look to appreciate it and then have a closer look at us. These stats in my opinion are actually very alarming and certainly "out of sync" with the rest of the division. Basically we are close to Crewe and the likes and the rankings put us as one of the weakest sides in the league.

Now all this fall-out about players wanting to leave could, IN THE LONG TERM, be a blessing in disguise. The strength of the squad is competent but we lack some real quality. Hurst annoys the hell out of me but hasn't been given much of a chance this season but it's clear he's off. Prosser has improved greatly but isn't good enough at this level to be in the starting XI. Worrall has flattered to deceive this season and on the whole hadn't done an awful lot. Bentley doesn't have a future here. Macca has clear ability but if he ever plays 4/5 games in a row for us I'll be shocked. Weston and Tims have seemingly been injured forever and unfortunately Woody woke up but then got a bad one and we won't see the best of until late March / early April. It's important we bring in 3/4 players in the next 2 weeks and then again strengthen in the summer. Promotion was never on the cards this season but it's all about progression and being the best we can be.

We have a lot to thank PB for, but his hard-work could all be undone in another months time if he isn't careful!

UTB.

Sorry mate but such stats mean absolutely zilch and all this 'what they have to say' means zilch too, it's what happens out on the pitch that actually counts not opinions and hypotheticals. We are where we are on merit, mid-table FL1 after some good results and a few not so good. To classify us as a weak team more akin to Crewe and their position in the table is quite ridiculous. Mini rant over ... ;)

 

[rigsby]

We're punching at our weight - mid table, league 1.
Also, everyone is replaceable.

I would say we are punching above our weight (financially) as we did last season
Yes every one is replaceable but certainly not for the same price, not even close. So in reality no the squad is not replaceable.

Not many, possibly Burton, clubs are above us who have a smaller budget to work with. If the tables stay as they are we will drop even further down the finance L1 table next season. Look at the clubs coming up and those going down etc.

 

[Jai]

These stats do not surprise me to be honest. We are a defensive team and one willing to absorb a lot of pressure. The stats presumable just count shots, not the quality of them. If we're forcing teams to whack speculative long-rangers at Bentley because they can't break through the back four then it could be worse.

I don't completely disagree that we're in a slightly false position though. My gut feeling (not based on much other than what I've seen with my own eyes) is that we won't pick up as many points in the second half of the season as the first, and we have rode our luck at times. If we lose Bentley, we could suffer badly given how busy our defence appears to be.

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

I would say we are punching above our weight (financially) as we did last season
Yes every one is replaceable but certainly not for the same price, not even close. So in reality no the squad is not replaceable.

Not many, possibly Burton, clubs are above us who have a smaller budget to work with. If the tables stay as they are we will drop even further down the finance L1 table next season. Look at the clubs coming up and those going down etc.

How can you possibly think that we punched above our weight financially last season? We were competing against teams that had 1500 fans every week, not 5500?

Even in League one, I would imagine that there are plenty of clubs with smaller budgets than ours? I would guess based on budgets, we are probably no more than 4 or 5 places above where we should be.

 

[Hawkwell Blue]

We're punching at our weight - mid table, league 1.
Also, everyone is replaceable.

There are very few teams in the world who have more than a couple of players who aren't replaceable.

 

[rigsby]

How can you possibly think that we punched above our weight financially last season? We were competing against teams that had 1500 fans every week, not 5500?

Even in League one, I would imagine that there are plenty of clubs with smaller budgets than ours? I would guess based on budgets, we are probably no more than 4 or 5 places above where we should be.

It has been explained before. The fair play rules are to do with income not attendances. As you know our stadium makes very little money compared to other clubs, Peterborough are streets ahead of us. On Saturday I was in the Caroline Hands suite, no I've know idea either and I didn't bother to ask about her. Packed bar, you could order hot food on the day, large screen and even had their own little bookies desk. They probably take more money than the shrimpers, far post and grounds man put together and of course they are well used on other days not just Saturdays. They had other suites where you have the full sit-down etc.

Figures from when we were in L2 put us at 11th in the division (financially). I believe PB had the 7th biggest budget in L2 last season. So clearly between Ron and Phil we punched above our weight by achieving promotion.

By my own financial reckoning and our attendances we are about 15th in the L1 finance rankings. This of course does not take into account each clubs debts before we start. As I say if the league tables were to stay as they are at this current moment we would slip down to 19th.

Its not all doom and gloom we have a much better catchment area than a lot of lower league teams, as proved by some of the crowds in my supporting life time. As it stands at the moment its either FF and a real chance to actually survive in the Championship or an inevitable slide back to L2.

I know my words will upset people, football fans can't deal with the truth. But rather than get angry with me put your efforts into boosting our plans with the council. We really are at the most important cross roads in our clubs history. If you want to advance out of last century and secure our club for the next 50 years then do your bit.

For those of you who will say why should I do Ron any favours. Think of it this way, football has always had chairman, some good and yes a lot of them bad. SUFC was around long before us and there will be chairman long after Ron. If we are in FF then the next Chairman is far more likely to be the sort of silly old sentimental fool that just wants to waste his fortune, that many of us dream about.

 

[wakes123]

Not very often I do a sensible post but from time to time I can string a sentence or two together. Now it's been a pretty disappointing start to 2016, after an incredible 2015 whereby we only lost 10 league games in a calendar year! Whatever level you are playing at, that's good going! The Colchester game was a big worry. We could all see we didn't play well and got somewhat fortunate with that result. We got our comeuppance in the next 3 games that's for sure before impressively stopping the rot against a strong P'Boro side.

We currently sit 9th and if we are all being honest, we'd have taken that in August. It's always disappointing to lose 3 games on the bounce (especially in the fashion we have) but overall it's been a strong start to life in League 1, a level in which we aren't very good at hanging around, be it for good or bad.

Onto my point, I've felt all season we are punching above our weight. For those on Twitter, and for those who aren't, head to experimental361.com . Now it's all about stats and what they say about each sides abilities, qualities, strengths and weaknesses. Now if you've got 5/10 mins it's worse having a look to appreciate it and then have a closer look at us. These stats in my opinion are actually very alarming and certainly "out of sync" with the rest of the division. Basically we are close to Crewe and the likes and the rankings put us as one of the weakest sides in the league.

Now all this fall-out about players wanting to leave could, IN THE LONG TERM, be a blessing in disguise. The strength of the squad is competent but we lack some real quality. Hurst annoys the hell out of me but hasn't been given much of a chance this season but it's clear he's off. Prosser has improved greatly but isn't good enough at this level to be in the starting XI. Worrall has flattered to deceive this season and on the whole hadn't done an awful lot. Bentley doesn't have a future here. Macca has clear ability but if he ever plays 4/5 games in a row for us I'll be shocked. Weston and Tims have seemingly been injured forever and unfortunately Woody woke up but then got a bad one and we won't see the best of until late March / early April. It's important we bring in 3/4 players in the next 2 weeks and then again strengthen in the summer. Promotion was never on the cards this season but it's all about progression and being the best we can be.

We have a lot to thank PB for, but his hard-work could all be undone in another months time if he isn't careful!

UTB.

I just can't understand how you can draw that conclusion.

Fair enough he's injured at the moment but when he gets fit I expect him to be a regular starter. I personally think he has a lot more to offer us.

 

[Chalky]

It has been explained before. The fair play rules are to do with income not attendances. As you know our stadium makes very little money compared to other clubs, Peterborough are streets ahead of us. On Saturday I was in the Caroline Hands suite, no I've know idea either and I didn't bother to ask about her. Packed bar, you could order hot food on the day, large screen and even had their own little bookies desk. They probably take more money than the shrimpers, far post and grounds man put together and of course they are well used on other days not just Saturdays. They had other suites where you have the full sit-down etc.

Figures from when we were in L2 put us at 11th in the division (financially). I believe PB had the 7th biggest budget in L2 last season. So clearly between Ron and Phil we punched above our weight by achieving promotion.

By my own financial reckoning and our attendances we are about 15th in the L1 finance rankings. This of course does not take into account each clubs debts before we start. As I say if the league tables were to stay as they are at this current moment we would slip down to 19th.

Its not all doom and gloom we have a much better catchment area than a lot of lower league teams, as proved by some of the crowds in my supporting life time. As it stands at the moment its either FF and a real chance to actually survive in the Championship or an inevitable slide back to L2.

I know my words will upset people, football fans can't deal with the truth. But rather than get angry with me put your efforts into boosting our plans with the council. We really are at the most important cross roads in our clubs history. If you want to advance out of last century and secure our club for the next 50 years then do your bit.

For those of you who will say why should I do Ron any favours. Think of it this way, football has always had chairman, some good and yes a lot of them bad. SUFC was around long before us and there will be chairman long after Ron. If we are in FF then the next Chairman is far more likely to be the sort of silly old sentimental fool that just wants to waste his fortune, that many of us dream about.

Budgets mean absolutely zilch in league 1 and 2. And below of course. Wycombe Wanderers cant even fill there bench up, have no youth squad. Lose money every year, have amounts of debt. Sign players on non contract terms, and they still challenge for promotion for a second year running and have just held Aston Villa to a replay.

The Peterborough Chairman even tweeted once that Budgets mean absolutely nothing in lower league football. He says its about developing players. But if you get to Championship and beyond, of course you need financial stability and high level revenue streams.

If we want to move further from where we are of course were going to need better facilities and revenue streams.