B.A.G.’s Partly Political Broadcast

[osymandus]

Cracks fingers.. welll

Just some quicky points (i agree with the spirit of what is written anyway )
Gengis Khan actually wasnt right wing (theres little to suggest his political leanings or if he actually had any intrest (he he).
The politcial implications of Iraq strech back in teh mist of time to ooh wait 1913-14 (its frmo memory so do excuse me) , When the broke from teh otterman empire with the assitance of T.E Lawrence (His book 7 pillars of Wisdom are a briliant take on what should have been done (and he and Churchhill strongly advocated this ) to solve the issues.
There is evuidence to suggest that parts of WW1 were also about oil (sounds weird) however some of teh first troops delopyed by england were to preserve oil supplies (yes i know its common sense if your looking to start a war but hey if some odd arch duke gets shot and you declare war on a rival empire for it there most be some pay off ;) )

Regarding prejudice et al. People seem to have selective memories espically regarding our so called leaders and rulers . They are still individuals at the end of they day with their own prejudice perceptions and flaws. And here in lies a large problem, were to eager to say "well his/she is in charge ill let them get on with it".
So few people take the time to be responisble for their own actions or understand as best they can what is happing around them .

All we have now has been repeated time and again for the last 10,000 years , all the mechanices or methods are altered .

Those who learn not the lessons of history are destined to repeat them .

Oh one more thing Afghanistan . It is the Opium , the CIA shall we say propably "help" its movment around the world, plus pipelines connections to Russia etc etc

 

[Firestorm]

I thought Afghanistan was all about running a damn great oil pipeline through the region. The US backed the Taliban when they were Anti Russia so the Nato forces in there at the moment are fighting US backed troops...

 

[osymandus]

Yup , the Arms are originally US supplied , (replced over the years by Chinese European etc ;) )

Reminds me of the Scifi Dune , he who controls teh spice. So oil and Opium/Herion from one place not bad.

 

[Bentley's Absurd Gait]

Admitting you have a problem is half the battle

OK, let’s get this out of the way. I am going to make two statements that are going to condemn me as a despicable racist. Here’s the first one:

‘I have got black friends’. The classic. The ethnic diversity of this country means that most white people come into daily contact with persons of a different race, and despite their better judgement, people become ‘friends’, even though one person’s ancestors were buying the other person’s ancestors as a cheap alternative to oxen. The first black people I spent a lot of time with were the sons and nephews of African royals or senior politicians at Sandhurst, and I really didn’t like them. I don’t think it was their blackness, I think it was their rudeness, arrogance and cowardice that bothered me, but maybe I’m mistaken.

The British Army is not the ideal place to develop multi-cultural awareness, but it was the place where I met many of my best friends, and Mac is the closest to me of all these ex-comrades. Here I play my joker. He is black as a gorilla’s goolies. Case closed. I’m not a racist, can’t be can I? Look at my mate here, been to my house and everything, no worries.

But now I will make my second statement:

‘I am a racist.’

Yes, I am. No doubt. A racist makes assumptions about somebody based on their ethnicity. I do that. All the time. I even do it about my own people, there are Jewish stereotypes that are undoubtedly founded on reality. (I don’t think we’re tight, just a bit careful.) If you see a group of black teenagers walking towards you wearing 50 Cents’ cast-offs, do you tense up slightly? Does your subconscious tell you that they might be a threat, even though your liberal beliefs tell you that they are just making a fashion statement, maybe a political statement expressing their affinity with a ‘gangsta’ who has reacted to his disenfranchisement by getting rich or dying trying?

When you see an asian man with full beard and traditional muslim garb boarding the tube with a large backpack, do you wish you had taken the bus? Do you wish you had the chutzpah to say ‘Balls to this, I’ll get the next one.’

I love the sequences in ‘The Office’ where David Brent and Gareth Keenan blunder their way through attempts to look ‘non-racist’. Brent’s admiration of the asian work ethic and the naming of his black dog as ‘Nelson’ are brilliantly cringeworthy moments. In my opinion, all of these efforts to distance yourself from racism look ridiculous, because they are inherently dishonest. Brent and Gareth are racists. So am I. So are you. I do have black and asian friends, because I like those particular people, and they’re racists too.

My contention is that race relations would be a whole lot rosier if everybody admitted it. If everybody said how they feel, and did so without fear of cultural excommunication. I don’t want to start the BNP discussion again, because there have been numerous threads on that particular topic, but I would like to theorise why that party is growing in popularity. People are racists, some more than others, but I truly believe it is an inherent part of our make up, and yet no accepted political opinion acknowledges this. You can make your jokes about the Daily Mail all you want, but after 9/11 and 7/7, the average man in the street was worried about Islamic extremism. They wanted someone to say what they were feeling, and nobody did. When Tebbit made his famous ‘cricket test’ statement, there may have been scoffing, but don’t you think a lot of people were going ‘he’s got a point there…….’?

My explanation for the rise of the BNP is that it’s the only party which gives people the opportunity to vent feelings that are stifled everywhere else. The party is also being turned into something of a ‘plucky underdog’ by the universally dismissive tone of the mainstream media. Even Jon Gaunt, much loved by the right, condemns them as thugs. Newspapers talk of them ‘seizing seats’ rather than winning them, as if they invaded the town hall in brown shirtings. They are generally presented as a threat, something beyond the pale, the unmentionables. Forgive me for making an ethnic generalisation, but the English tend to warm to these types of things. ‘Nobody likes them, but they keep having a crack at it, bloody good luck to them!’

If you’re truly committed to the demise of the BNP, I would let them into the political mainstream. Allow the subjects of racial tension, immigration and fear of Islamic extremism into the main house, don’t leave them kicking about in the shed to grow and spawn into a monster.

 

[Firestorm]

BAG, That sort of leads on to what I discribe as institutionalised racism. Where someone says something because they always have / their parents said it etc etc . I used to have a running joke with a girl at work about the little old lady at the bus stop asking her if its "too cold for her" (she originated from the Caribbean)

I often wonder about my own hypocracy, I do not make sterotypical remarks ,assumptions or derogatory comments anout someones race or colour . But I quite often slag northerners off and regularly stereotype and "rip to bits" people from Kent. Fat birds tend to come in for a bit of stick at times (but not too their faces as I class myself as a tactful coward).
Personally I am uncomfortable with the feeling that I may offend someone, by something I say, so I suppose thats a start, but as I have been known to take offence at comments aimed at me, I know that I should not be dishing it out either.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Good stuff there BAG.

I agree entirely that the best way to counter the BNP and racism is to have it out in the open. As soon as their policies are scrutinised, they are shown up to be intellectually bankrupt. Include them in the debates etc, as there is no better way to turn people against the BNP than to have the BNP's ideas on race, immigration discussed out in the open.

As for people who fear being blown up because the bloke on the tube has a beard, or someone who feels intimidated because some black kids are wearing 50 cent cast offs, or even are intimidated by white kids in hoodies, I hold you in contempt because I don't suffer fools gladly.

 

[Bentley's Absurd Gait]

Good stuff there BAG.

I agree entirely that the best way to counter the BNP and racism is to have it out in the open. As soon as their policies are scrutinised, they are shown up to be intellectually bankrupt. Include them in the debates etc, as there is no better way to turn people against the BNP than to have the BNP's ideas on race, immigration discussed out in the open.

As for people who fear being blown up because the bloke on the tube has a beard, or someone who feels intimidated because some black kids are wearing 50 cent cast offs, or even are intimidated by white kids in hoodies, I hold you in contempt because I don't suffer fools gladly.

I know that my friend. Luckily I'm usually armed.

 

[Irish_Shrimper]

As for people who fear being blown up because the bloke on the tube has a beard, or someone who feels intimidated because some black kids are wearing 50 cent cast offs, or even are intimidated by white kids in hoodies, I hold you in contempt because I don't suffer fools gladly.

I think the way in which some of the media portrays stories such as, for example, the long list of teenage murders in London: By conveying these stories with images, clips. and interviews showing all sorts of youngsters in their hoodies up to no good, is making people behave more like what you are referring to in your statement BAG. I find that any overly sensitive person: expecially perhaps a parent - will always feel when seeing this sort of thing, that they think twice about their own or childs well being when walking down a street, and a group of hooded youths happens to be situated outside the local corner shop per se.

I don't think its that individuals fault YB for feeling intimidated: The fear provoked by sources such as Sky News, I find, is a tad OTT at times - and some people simply cannot help felling this way.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I think the way in which some of the media portrays stories such as, for example, the long list of teenage murders in London: By conveying these stories with images, clips. and interviews showing all sorts of youngsters in their hoodies up to no good, is making people behave more like what you are referring to in your statement BAG. I find that any overly sensitive person: expecially perhaps a parent - will always feel when seeing this sort of thing, that they think twice about their own or childs well being when walking down a street, and a group of hooded youths happens to be situated outside the local corner shop per se.

I don't think its that individuals fault YB for feeling intimidated: The fear provoked by sources such as Sky News, I find, is a tad OTT at times - and some people simply cannot help felling this way.

Of course its their fault that they don't think, and are unwilling to - or incapable of - applying sensationalist news stories to their own lives.

 

[Slipperduke]

Superb stuff there, BAG. Nail, head, through the wood and out the other side.

 

[Irish_Shrimper]

Of course its their fault that they don't think, and are unwilling to - or incapable of - applying sensationalist news stories to their own lives.

But underneath the sensationalist news, there is still generally an element (be it small or large) of truth to the story that provokes the intimidation factor.

Take Limerick for example: the place has some horrible gang crime atm. RTE News has always over hyped the situation here, and 9.99 times out of 10, the majority of the population don't see any of this going on. Despite the hyped up news stories however, a lot of people still are very weary walking the streets - as the ever present sound of police sirens and burnt out cars in areas of the city are there for everyone to see if they wish to venture into such areas. The news just adds to the already present fear, and intimidation factor we are talking about - And therefore i can understand to an extent why people would be overly cautious as i mentioned in my last post.

 

[Hector of the House]

As for people who fear being blown up because the bloke on the tube has a beard, or someone who feels intimidated because some black kids are wearing 50 cent cast offs, or even are intimidated by white kids in hoodies, I hold you in contempt because I don't suffer fools gladly.

It's no different from our youth if you really think about it. The Punk Movement was a statement against the establishment which basicly said '**** You, I'm Me' but once it caught on it just became another trend to follow and a weak shock fashion. The older generation of the day recoiled in horror at what they saw and felt intimitated because it was something new.

Mods and Rockers, Skinheads, Teddy Boys, they all shocked and scared in their own way and this Hoodie stuff is no different. A hoodie mugged a old lady, a hoodie threatened staff with a knife, hoodies threw rocks at passing cars, it sounds much more scary than a youth wearing a hooded top blah blah blah.

Black kids walking down the road wearing baggy trousers and basketball tops are no different to a group of white kids doing the same wearing Nike hooded tops and in serious need of a belt to hold up those bloody stupid jeans they wear. The threat is only percieved in your own minds eye after reading the bilge that comics playing at newspapers print.

Far from fearing for my life, I usually get an overpowering urge to burst out laughing at the clothes they call fashionable.

 

[Irish_Shrimper]

It's quite late I know, but alas I am here doing bloody Uni work before a meeting tomorrow! Basically, a quick word of thanks to anyone that has contributed in some shape or form on this thread. You see, as I said before, I am starting down the long road to PhD, and whilst initially I had an idea combining British Imperialism with Machiavelli, my supervisor told me to broaden my horizons a tad, and try to push the boundries more.

So as I sit here long after midnight, one or two comments I remembered from before on here popped into my head, and subsequently I checked some books and other sources relating to these, and as a result I have some more ideas to discuss tomorrow. And am absolutely chuffed with them, as they are more interesting to me personally, and perhaps might stand me in better shape to get the job I really want in the future...

I'll quit blabbering for now - But I sincerely thank you all, and long may the debating continue :)

 

[loz]

It's quite late I know, but alas I am here doing bloody Uni work before a meeting tomorrow! Basically, a quick word of thanks to anyone that has contributed in some shape or form on this thread. You see, as I said before, I am starting down the long road to PhD, and whilst initially I had an idea combining British Imperialism with Machiavelli, my supervisor told me to broaden my horizons a tad, and try to push the boundries more.

So as I sit here long after midnight, one or two comments I remembered from before on here popped into my head, and subsequently I checked some books and other sources relating to these, and as a result I have some more ideas to discuss tomorrow. And am absolutely chuffed with them, as they are more interesting to me personally, and perhaps might stand me in better shape to get the job I really want in the future...

I'll quit blabbering for now - But I sincerely thank you all, and long may the debating continue :)

i await the first Bluetonic-edited selection of Shrimperzone working papers with baited breath :)

 

[Bentley's Absurd Gait]

A Bleeding Heart isn’t Always Sincere

I have to make a concession to liberals, they have certainly paid attention to Antonio Gramsci. Well I suppose if anyone is going to pay attention to an avowed Marxist, it would be liberals. Gramsci very shrewdly recognised that for the left to win the political war, it must first win the cultural one. If you interpret the cultural war as the battle for hegemony over the established media, it would be my contention that they have the upper hand, but no more than that.

However, my interpretation of the cultural war is slightly different, and it is a war that has been won by the left in a manner as emphatic as the British victory over Zanzibar in the 38 minute Anglo-Zanzibar war of 1896.

Very simply, it’s ‘cool’ to be a leftie. All the rock stars and Hollywood darlings know this. Left-wingers are devil-may-care, good in bed and raffishly tousled. They support the underdog: the working classes, the poor, minorities, the environment – all the causes you can’t really question without looking like someone Hitler kicked out of the party for going ‘a little too far’.

‘Clever’ alternative comedians are left-wing – the right is represented by Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson. Oliver Stone and George Clooney win Oscars for flights of fancy about vast right-wing conspiracies that cannot be substantiated but must exist because of something Goebbels once said (The quote ‘the bigger the lie, the more it will be believed’ attributed to Goebbels is actually misleading as it is paraphrased from his attack on perceived English dishonesty, particularly that of Churchill). Bono and Chris Martin jet around the world on wretched self-important tours and then lecture us about our carbon footprint.

Being right wing is synonymous with crap taste in music, bad fashion sense, sexual deviance (the only time the left is scornful of poofs is when they’re Tory MPs), sexism, racism and semi-auto-asphyxiation enjoyed while masturbating with an orange in your mouth. Right-wingers seem to have the monopoly on nastiness and depravity. Famous right-wingers are subjects of ridicule and abuse – Clarkson, Littlejohn and Tebbit are good examples.

All of which goes to prove how incredibly principled right-wing people are. If they wanted to, they could choose the political affiliation that comes with free street cred. They could avoid abuse at the hands of every topical comedy programme and enjoy the favour of Bono and George Clooney. But they don’t. They choose to follow what they believe in, perhaps because they feel truth is more important than social convenience.

 

[loz]

either that, or left-wingers are just smarter and more attractive. when i'm in charge, all you ugly *******s will be put in camps.

 

[TrueBlue]

either that, or left-wingers are just smarter and more attractive. when i'm in charge, all you ugly *******s will be put in camps.

I like the cut of your jib and I would like to subscribe to your weekly newsletter

 

[Bentley's Absurd Gait]

either that, or left-wingers are just smarter and more attractive. when i'm in charge, all you ugly *******s will be put in camps.

Come on lozzer, you can do better than that.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I have to make a concession to liberals, they have certainly paid attention to Antonio Gramsci. Well I suppose if anyone is going to pay attention to an avowed Marxist, it would be liberals. Gramsci very shrewdly recognised that for the left to win the political war, it must first win the cultural one. If you interpret the cultural war as the battle for hegemony over the established media, it would be my contention that they have the upper hand, but no more than that.

However, my interpretation of the cultural war is slightly different, and it is a war that has been won by the left in a manner as emphatic as the British victory over Zanzibar in the 38 minute Anglo-Zanzibar war of 1896.

Very simply, it’s ‘cool’ to be a leftie. All the rock stars and Hollywood darlings know this. Left-wingers are devil-may-care, good in bed and raffishly tousled. They support the underdog: the working classes, the poor, minorities, the environment – all the causes you can’t really question without looking like someone Hitler kicked out of the party for going ‘a little too far’.

‘Clever’ alternative comedians are left-wing – the right is represented by Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson. Oliver Stone and George Clooney win Oscars for flights of fancy about vast right-wing conspiracies that cannot be substantiated but must exist because of something Goebbels once said (The quote ‘the bigger the lie, the more it will be believed’ attributed to Goebbels is actually misleading as it is paraphrased from his attack on perceived English dishonesty, particularly that of Churchill). Bono and Chris Martin jet around the world on wretched self-important tours and then lecture us about our carbon footprint.

Being right wing is synonymous with crap taste in music, bad fashion sense, sexual deviance (the only time the left is scornful of poofs is when they’re Tory MPs), sexism, racism and semi-auto-asphyxiation enjoyed while masturbating with an orange in your mouth. Right-wingers seem to have the monopoly on nastiness and depravity. Famous right-wingers are subjects of ridicule and abuse – Clarkson, Littlejohn and Tebbit are good examples.

All of which goes to prove how incredibly principled right-wing people are. If they wanted to, they could choose the political affiliation that comes with free street cred. They could avoid abuse at the hands of every topical comedy programme and enjoy the favour of Bono and George Clooney. But they don’t. They choose to follow what they believe in, perhaps because they feel truth is more important than social convenience.

Hmm, 5/10. OK as far as it goes but you can do better.

The timing seems a little strange as even the Grauniad was this week suggesting that the Labour party is now the nasty party rather than the Tories and celebrities aren't particularly lining up behind Labour at the moment.

 

[loz]

fine then.... your use of Gramsci doesn't hold water. being 'cool'- at least as its generally been applied in Western popular culture - tends to mean an association with the counter-culture, i.e. the people who aren't part of the hegemony. To grossly over-generalise: if we lived in a socialist paradise, there'd be some decent right-wing comedy.

There is a weird statistical thing going on here though-presumably there are a lot of famous people whose politics tend towards the right-wing: the numbers in the general population must surely make it so, as does the fact that people with lots of money have a vested interest in low-tax regimes. Possible suggestions:

1- could reflect the phenomenon in polling generally that people are reluctant to admit voting for a right-wing party. I think the stat is something like for the 4 last general elections and the London Mayoral, the most accurate opinion poll in the preceding week was the one that gave the highest Tory vote.

2- People don't feel the need to spout off about how much they love neo-liberal economics and nationalism, because those ideas already dominate current politics and are entrenched in our major institiutions. It'd be like me getting up each morning and telling everyone how vital is is that the sun rises.

3- your last paragraph is entirely unsubstantiated trouble-making, and i suspect you know it to be so.